NJCubScouter

Hunt, I just noticed your "modest proposals." In the spirit of Jonathan Swift, I thought I was about to read a parody, but some of your suggestions do seem like actual suggestions. (I do think you were "playing" about the uniform re-design though). After all, the BSA did start to reduce the usage of the word "Boy" in connection with the Boy Scouts in the early 70's, to what ultimate purpose we will never know with certainty, because of the change in direction a few years later. The v-necked youth uniform I have in my closet, where it is apparently awaiting shipment to the NJCubScouter

Rooster says: If you want to take exception with something I've said, then state it and present your argument to me directly. I didn't know you were in charge of issuing rules for how things are to be discussed in this forum. (I thought that was someone else's job -- and he isn't the forum owner either.) You don't have to us teenaged girls as "middlemen" to pick a fight. Personally, I think you've crossed the line with that comment, but as always, I am happy to leave that for the assembled multitude to decide for themselves. Rooster, all someone has to do is read the

Very cute baby, Wingnut. Just make sure you don't get the child-welfare folks on you for the photo in the second column of the second row, though...

SR, the schedule for Enterprise is the same here, in fact I am pretty sure it is uniform (ho ho) nationwide. Unlike some of the prior series (Next Gen and DS9 I think), Enterprise is not syndicated, so it isn't just sent to every station that airs it with instructions to put it on sometime in a 7-day window. It is an actual network (UPN) show, so when you're watching it, I'm watching it. (Um, not sure about that time-zone thing, actually. Here it is on at 7 on Weds. and it has floated around on Sundays, lately it has been on at 9.) This may seem obvious, but it was a couple of years into

FOG says: NJCubDude said, "I don't think of the BSA as a 'they,' I think of it as 'we.' " It isn't that way if you accepts the teaching of Bob White. Again with the dude. As for BobWhite, I don't know what he's said on the subject of "we." But it doesn't matter, because as you may have noticed, I don't always agree with BobWhite anyway. If you leave aside the "gay issue," (on which the two of you are birds of a feather, as you know), I probably agree with him roughly 83.6 percent of the time. Roughly. Most of my disagreements with him (apart from the "gay issue") do seem t

OK, I know I am about to carry this Star Trek thing to an obsessive level, but why not. (Before I get going, for the record, I have never been to a Trek convention, never worn "Spock ears," never worn a Starfleet uniform, and have not lived with my parents since graduating from college. Have I seen every episode of every series at least once, and all the movies? I take the Fifth... actually I have missed a few of "Enterprise" while I was at school board meetings and nobody at home remembered to tape them...) I got curious about something and went on the Internet (I love the Internet) t

I usually try to keep my "Star Trek" fandom and trivia knowldge quiet around here, but if we're discussing the image of Boy Scouts in film and tv, I can't resist. Up until very recently, the one reference to Boy Scouts in the Star Trek "universe" was a throwaway line that was not something to be proud of. In "Star Trek II" (made in the early 80's), a scientist in his early 20's is discussing with his mother a man who he believes was just one of her old boyfriends, Captain James Kirk (he later finds out that Kirk is his father.) In a scene before he figures this out, he makes a derogator

Fuzzy, I do that on a regular basis, forget to take my name tag off. Between school and professional functions I probably wear a name tag 15 to 20 times a year, and at least half the time I wear it out into "public." I'll be wheeling a shopping cart down the aisle at Shop Rite after stopping to "pick up a few things on the way home please honey" and I'll either notice someone reading my collarbone area or just happen to look down and see "Hi my name is..."

I wear my Philmont arrowhead hanging-patch, earned in 1974. (See thread next door.) It has become somewhat of a conversation piece with a couple of the Scouts. As in, "You went to Philmont? Cool!" That can't be a bad thing. (Of course, if they were saying what they were really thinking, it would probably be, "Wow, a fat old guy like you went to Philmont, if you can then I can." Of course, I was neither fat nor old at the time, but the point is that it gets them thinking about going. Adults wearing OA flaps, regardless of whether they did their ordeal as a youth, has the same effect. I

DS, you said something I never knew and do not understand. A Venturing youth application does not require a parental signature? Not just a "youth" of 18 to 20 (who is legally an adult but a youth for Venturing purposes), but one of any age? In other words, if a 14-year-old boy wants to join a Boy Scout troop, he needs parental consent, but if the same boy wants to join a Venturing crew, he only needs his own signature? What sense does that make? As for Eamonn's issue, I was confused like KS, and I am still confused. How can a unit be chartered without the requisite number of adul

I mean, when you write about the gay issue. Yeesh.

Hunt: Many double apostrophes (which looks suspiciously like mega-dittos.) FOG: When you write the "gay issue," you refer to the BSA as "they," and "their organization." I don't think of the BSA as a "they," I think of it as "we." Not that I speak for it, or have a vote in it, but just that I am part of it, it is "our" organization. To me, the BSA is not some "they" out there.

Hunt, you mention restrictions on the practice of Christianity in Israel and Saudia Arabia. This is clearly true in Saudi Arabia, where any display or practice of any religion other than Islam is prohibited. U.S. military and government employees are worned not to wear visible crosses, Stars of David or other Christian or Jewish symbols in that country. However, I do not believe this is true in Israel. Obviously Israel does have an "established religion," and there are some preferences given to Jews, starting with the fact that Jews seeking to immigrate receive automatic citizenship an

Adrian, I was going to write a longer post in response to yours, but to sum it all up, I agree with Hunt. Our nation differs from all of those that you have mentioned. Some of those nations have "established religions" under their constitutions or basic laws. Others, in different ways, give some governmental preference to one religion or another. In almost all of them, people of "minority religions" are relegated to "second-class citizenship." In a truly dysfunctional nation such as Iraq was prior to the recent "regime change," the government imposed a sort of secularized version of one s

I meant DS, not DG. Oh but to be able to edit my posts. You probably don't want to hear this, DS, but I think I was thinking of writing a response to FOG and I combined DS and FOG and got DG. I'll try not to let it happen again.

I meant DS, not DG. Oh but to be able to edit my posts. You probably don't want to hear this, DS, but I think I was thinking of writing a response to FOG and I combined DS and FOG and got DG. I'll try not to let it happen again.

DG, I understand what you are saying. I have respect for you as well. As far as you enforcing the rules, I wouldn't expect you to do anything else. But rules can change. The people who make the rules can change. I don't expect it to happen tomorrow and I certainly don't expect the discussions in this forum to have any immediate impact on changing them. But I do think it is going to happen eventually, and then I suspect you will just as vigorously enforce the rules at that time. In the meantime, what the policies and rules of the BSA should be remains a perfectly legitimate area of d

FOG says: We keep repeating it because there are many people out there that think that all youth related organizations have to accept all comers. Are there? You'd think one of them would post that every once in awhile. I can't think of anyone who has said that on here. Some people like to twist other peoples' words to try to make it look like that is the argument, but nobody actually makes that argument. We keep repeating it because people keep wanting to argue about membership standards. The argument is about what the membership standards should be, not whether the BSA

FOG, I agree, that's what I meant -- that sort of conduct, if done "openly," would make it reasonable for a prospective leader's application to be rejected.

Oops, the sentence: DS, obviously I have no argument. Should say: DS, obviously I have no argument with your first sentence. I always have an argument.

DS says: I do not believe that bisexuals, homosexuals, or transgenders make the best role models for youth members of the Boy Scouts of America. Neither does the Boy Scouts of America, which is a private organization with its own membership standards. DS, obviously I have no argument. I am sure that is what you believe. As for the beginning of your second sentence, I also have no doubt that that is what the corporation, the "Boy Scouts of America, "believes." In other words, that is the belief-statement and policy that a majority of the ultimate decision-making body has deci

Crewgirl, if you read Rooster's post and wonder when you said some of the things he says you said, don't worry about it. He does that to me all the time. He can only refute your argument by first mis-stating it.

Rooster says: Bisexuality is perverted lust. Certainly, even most liberals would agree with that statement. Yet, Dale refuses to condemn bisexuality - Why? In fact, he puts himself in bed with them (figuratively speaking). Is it because he knows bisexuality is merely a cousin of homosexuality? I'm going to address the end of this paragraph first and the beginning last, and give my own opinion in between. Since Dale presumably does not regard homosexuality as immoral, then what difference would it make that bisexuality is its "cousin." In other words, if both are acceptable beha

Big Dog, since you quote the book of Romans as if it is relevant to the discussion, I have a few questions for you: 1. Do you think everyone in this forum believes that the book of Romans contains the word of God? 2. Do you think everyone in the BSA believes that the book of Romans contains the word of God? 3. Do you think the BSA requires its members to believe that the book of Romans contains the word of God? 4. If the answer to all of the above questions is no -- then how is your quotation from the book of Romans relevant to this discussion?

I don't recall seeing any BSA ads on tv in recent years. In fact the last one I remember was the one where a man is walking down a dark alley and notices over his shoulder that 2 or 3 late-teen boys are walking fairly close behind him, and he is really nervous... until the boys walk out into the light and the man sees that they are wearing Boy Scout uniforms. That was probably in the early 70's. Before that (late 60's I guess), I am pretty sure there were commercials based on the BSA's promotional theme at the time, Follow the Rugged Road. I know there are others here who are at least