Basementdweller

I was thinking even more basic than Patrol method. We are talking basic woodcraft. As stated Cooking over an open fire Campsite selection and setting up with in the site Fire building Leave no trace Respect and the outdoors Plant ID track ID animal ID reptile ID Sounds of the wild Weather forecasting way finding Season specific issues Improvised shelter, gathering food Pioneering, rope work True cross country Orienteering. Backpacking Gear selection, type and quality The course would probably be 4 weekends all in the field over the course of a year, one per season. This would be probably need to be a regional type training. Remember most Adult scouters are life long city dwellers, they have minimal if any outdoor skills. They could not find their way out of the woods let alone self rescue. With that said, there is no possible way it could be implemented or taught at a troop level. this would absolutely positively have to be Patrol level instruction.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

I have a list of topics, I feel need covered.... What are your thoughts.....

Not man scouts any more.... The Gals were worse than the Men..... Adult Scouts

The bragging and mine is bigger than yours was kind of amazing. they spent an excessive amount of my time bragging up the staff.......Wow, you have a whole ten years of experience and most of it as a cub leader. No one spoke of Philmont, Jambo, camping, backpacking, or the outdoors. The longest tenured staff member was a mere 14 years. I will say that this group of woodbadgers have forgotten about the boys long ago. I am second guessing signing up to take it. The time will be better spent actually working with the boys. The reason I am taking the course is the woodbadge barricade at the District and council level.

I have to laugh at this point. I am involved with a woodbadge course. A member of staff sent an email out to staff and partipants and it stated they had taken the woodbadge prior to 2000 and it was horrible and did not compare very well with the current course. I am subscribing more and more to Kudu's beliefs. I am sorry I missed the old course........My opinion after the first weekend is the scouters involved with woodbadge have forgotten about the boys. Adult Scouts of America I wonder out loud whether a Course of pure Woodcraft would be successful. I don't think it would because of egos.

I have been in a pack that was year round and one that followed the school year. I find the summer program very enjoyable. I take 3 weeks off work for BS camp, Day Camp and CS resident Camp Day camp Resident camp Webelos Weekend 80% participation at camp we have a family picnic with picnic games, kickball, volleyball and flagfootball beltloops being earned. , creekin with a state naturalist, Disc golf with a local club as host, Rain gutter regatta. Lots of fun stuff..... The other benefit during the summer is the boys who really aren't that into scouting don't come. Behavior and attention issues are minimal. Attendance is roughly 1/3 for us.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

6-8 is a great den size. 24 is to big to effectively engage each scout. A story. My son and I left a Pack over the CM laying hands on the young men and taking money from the pack and buying the Troop Tents. I reported the Abuse to the DE and nothing was done. The point..... In our shopping for a Pack we visited a number, The first one had 3 boys in each den and they were brothers and cousins. Not enough boys to have den games The Second Pack the dens had 20 scouts. The night we visited they were sharing their collections......It took an hour and 15 minutes. After 20 minutes of collecting dues. Plus all of the parents and siblings in the room. It was crowded and way too hot. The Pack was 200 cubs strong. Third Pack......roughly ten boys per den. Had a DL and Assistant. The boys were engaged and enough scouts to play team games. Four Pack.......roughly ten boys per den......They treated it like school. Boys were quite attentive and very disciplined. No fun was being had Our current Pack is 50 on the charter with 30 very active. The problem with mega sized packs 100+ in my opinion is that everything begins to take too long. Pinewood derby would take an entire Saturday, which is longer than most cubs would enjoy. Pack meetings are longer than they should be, with a Pack that size. I think that it diminishes the scouting experience. Just my opinion.

Drugs kinda bulky?????? boy oh boy, you guys are pretty clueless, For a weekend outing you can fit a couple of joints just bout anywhere. external frame pack, pull the caps off, sleeping bags, mess kits, snack bags, toothbrush holder, toothpaste tubes, ball point pens, shampoo bottles, pocket knife, soap bottles, cans of pop. on and on and on. Unless someone tells you exactly where it is at you will never know and could spend hours looking for it. Drug dog would cut the search time. If the parents are in denial you are going to loose him if you accuse him with out proof positive. Then there is the "what if your wrong?" If it was me, I would make sure he is never alone at the event......I would be his shadow and I would assign him a buddy to make sure he was never alone.

Camporee Campsite rental, Insurance, patches, Supplies.

Is this one of the aspects of the Jambo that is driving up the cost????? Why aren't the troops cooking in the camp site??

Ya know, That is probably the biggest complaint about our program. Food costs. It sounds to me like it is pretty reasonable. I am going to turn my sensitivity to money down a bit. sounds to me like a $10-15 camp out is not out of line and maybe a bit of a bargain.

I didn't think we were doing much of anything other than making it work. Far as bulk cereal and red drinks go. Most of the boys are ADD and on meds. Cereal and some of the things I would consider normal breakfast fair are off limits. We have several that grow horns and a tail if they get too much sugar and artificial coloring.

so what are your food costs for a typical camping weekend??

As you mentioned we have a Pantry that we draw from. We watch the adds and stock it up when a good deal happens. Can goods and such...... We do not use paper goods, well other than TP, The boys bring their own mess kit and we have dish towels by the bag that we wash and dry after each camp out. No paper towels, plates or plastic silverware. Minimal cost. I think 10 bucks is super cheap for 5 quality meals. Last camp out our menu Friday cracker barrel......Dutch oven pizza Saturday breakfast....Make your own omlets Saturday lunch......Cold cut sandwiches, chips apples and koolaid Saturday Dinner......Western ribs, mashed potatos, corn, butter bread and ribs. Ribs were on sale for $1.29 a pound Saturday Cracker barrel.....Pie iron fruit pies Sunday Breakfast Pancakes and Bacon Bulk bacon from a local smoke house 50 cent a pound. Thoughts????

My experience was more than a few years old...... We had to cook in the camp site.

We have several multi scout families to 10 bucks for food for the camp out can become 30 real quick. That is simply going to the free campsites. We already hike and fish, Free museums around, state historical sites. on and on and on. Jamboree, Philmont, northern tier are unobtainable. The Fall camporee cost $15 to just get in the door, $10 for food that is a $25 weekend which is $75 for one family. Klondike derby is $35....just the entry....... Our fundraisers barely cover Recharter and Summer camp Troop Gear isn't a problem, We have patrol boxes and tents for 40 scouts. We have transportation. It is food and camp site costs. Well you get the picture. Far as the CO goes we took asked for a received help to send two boys to camp who could not afford it. Made a brief presentation, The boys asked for help and the congregation stepped up. but lets look at the cost of the program Fall camporee $25 November Camp $15 December Party $10 Recharter $35 January Cabin $30 Feb Klondike $40 March Camp $25 April Camp $10 May outing $15 June Summercamp $180 July FishingCamp$15 $360 bucks and that isn't with a bunch of expensive outings. In our council that is like $1,000 worth of popcorn. With three that is more than a grand.

Money is an issue. We are a near inner city troop and not very wealthy. So cost on outings is a huge and perpetual problem. I think that is a little bit of our problem.

The potatos and rice is the instant kind. It was not precooked in that it was a warm up or boil a fair. The meals were ok as I remember and pretty typical camp kinda food. The directions were pretty good, One of our patrols refused to follow the directions and had a couple of failed or really late meals. Scratch potatos are the kind you peel the potatos and boil for a real long time. Real rice cooking is an art form as well. Mine is rarely right, so I just use instant.

Thx for all of the responses. We have tried most of the suggestions. There are two patrols we knick named the coggers and young guns. The coggers are 14-16 and are not very enthusiastic about scouting any more. Young guns are new with a max age of 12. We tried the big board with lists of events. We tried pizza night planning. We have tried PLC, which the SPL didn't show. Just keep plugging away at it.

I desire our Troop to be boy led, BUT, what do you do when during the planning process the boys don't participate???? We tried planning with a blank calendar and no events and no help. We tried planning with lists of things to do and program goals. Heck we even tried a dinner meeting and that didn't work. Still the boys do not participate, so the SM does it. Have you experienced it????? What did you do to fix it???

so if you abandon the outdoor program what does that leave..... Night school????? Community service night????? Camping will become hotelling, Gratuity merit badge????? You want more boys add ATV, Dirt biking merit badges. Our youths sense of adventure is different than ours. Hiking three miles to most Boy Scouts is a huge deal.

Met a fellow sporting the philmont arrow head. He spun a tail of 150 pound packs and didn't know what or where the tooth of time was...... Didn't know what a switch back was.......on and on..... ALL BSA awards can be purchased on line......EBay and a few other sites.... I am not saying it is right and it is being done. More than a few Posers in the BSA, Man Scouts who need awards to measure their worth. I also enjoy the Posers who pretend to be woodbadgers.

Here is a link to a leaders guide. http://www.ncacbsatroop170.org/Documents/GoshenLeadersGuide2010.pdf In reading down to were the food prep is at.....I would take my normal camp kitchen.

Never thought my views were that progressive. I am surprised YOU let him join venturing knowing women were about. People have faith in your sons and scouts, I am disappointed in the group for the lack of respect for our boys. The girls mature faster and will bully my scout not giving him the boy experience. PLEASE. Did it ever occur to you that competition will make our youth better?? So how does a single sex program reflect and help our youth? Sheldon I disagree that everything is skewed to women. I will say that if I was an African American Female in my Engineering program I could have gone free..... But I was not prevented from attending. Women are just starting to get equal opportunity. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Being the pack trainer you don't have to actually train. Your job is to keep track of the records and make sure that the leadership is trained and to present them with opportunities. Seems like a pretty easy job to me. Remember all you can do is present the dates it is up to the leadership to actually show up.