MrsSmith

Big Dog, a UT or Rice grad?

KS, If troop guides are not members of a patrol while they hold the job, with whom do they eat, etc. on campouts?(This message has been edited by MrsSmith)

Bob White, I am thoroughly disgusted with the lack of knowledge our leaders have. I am trying to change it but as you all said it takes about 3 years, not 3 months to change a troop culture.

In this troop, Troop Guide is just a patch you get to wear for 4 or 6 months. My question is how can a patrol of older boys function if none of them can hold a patrol job while working on Star or Life. That's impossible, right?

"advanced over" was a poor choice of words. What I meant was there seems to be a disagreement about what is meant by the requirement to actively serve.

One interpretation would lead to an inactive scout who is a great leader (read: natural born or developed leadership ability as quarterback of the football team) being advanced.

A second interpretation leads to a dedicated and active scout without leadership ability being advanced.

A final interpretation could result in only very active, great leaders advancing.

I assume that everyone would like to see all boys be Boy #3. But is there an interpretation of this requirement that permits either or both of the first two boys to advance? Or is there even room at the top for them, i.e., are the upper ranks of scouting only for Boy #3.

Just asking.

Hey, pushy moms can admit when they are wrong. Its just that we are so rarely wrong....

BTW, why aren't dads ever referred to as "pushy". Or is there another name for them?

Eamonn: you were right. Fun is in the vision statement. I guess I will have to let overachiever son knock off ropemaking for the night and come in out of the snow. Extra gruel all around.

I know that our troop laundry is dirty. See "How to get rid of the SM". I am trying to get advice for overachieving son trying to make the best of it.

Where does the book say that "demonstrating leadership ability" is the criteria for advancement to Star and Life?

Herms: I would hope that leaders try and help the boys reach their individual potentials. But I don't believe that all boys can be great leaders, anymore than all boys can be great athletes or musicians. They are individuals.

Requirement says:

"While a Star Scout, serve actively for six months in one or more of the troop positions of responsibility listed in requirement 5 for Star Scout (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop)."

Demonstrate leadership ability is not there - just serve actively. Doesn't this mean that a poor leader who is active should be advanced over an inactive great leader. Maybe the point is to encourage active participation. Not all kids are cut out to be leaders.

Is it reasonable to ask members of a patrol to accept patrol responsibilities in addition to their troop position of responsibility or are the two mutually exclusive.

We have a new Patrol with one Life, one Star, two First Class, two scouts. Ages range from 11-13. They picked their own patrols last week.

One 1st class was elected PL. The three other experienced boys have troop leadership positions (not SPL or ASPL). Two of them are troop guides! I know they are supposed to be assigned to NSP but lack of trained leaders committed to following the BSA methods put the boys in this spot.

The experienced boys insist their troop POR relieves them of responsibility for taking a patrol job. I know I cannot look for help from the literature since the problem arose from failing to follow the program. Any suggestions on how to proceed from here.

I know that Scouting is supposed to be fun, but most boys dont need to be told to have fun - that comes naturally. Rather, most have to be told to get to work.

Maybe thats why the mission of the Boy Scouts of America is not to teach boys to have fun, the Aims of Scouting dont include having fun and the methods dont mention fun, but they do specifically mention Advancement.

I think you are sending mixed messages. On the one hand, the boy is told he is being turned down because he lacks maturity and leadership ability. On the other he is told to slow down and enjoy the journey and stop thinking of becoming Eagle before 13. I say dont punish an overachiever. Would you rather have a troop of underachievers? Besides, for an overachiever fun is achieving more than is expected of you.

AMEN.

mk9750 and Sandyt888

Thanks. I will pass on your admonitions. As suggested by OGE and John-in-KC, he went to the summer camp website and checked on the prerequisites which can definitely be completed beforehand. That pumped him up and has started on writing the EnvSci reports already (on the computer with word count built in). He is trying to get another go-getter to start early with him.

boleta, I am not interested in debating my patriotism with you. As I said, personal attacks on other posters make boring reading.

Thank you all for your replies. I will pass the information on to overachieving number one son. I especially enjoyed the tale by LPC_Thumper about perking the boys Friday night with dessert:)

So Noted. Thanks.

This is something about which everyone can agree(This message has been edited by MrsSmith)

In our large metropolitan area, there are several organized homeschool groups. Check the internet for your state's association, then work backwards. Churches are a good place to look. Also, teacher supply stores know the homeschoolers. Check with the sponsors of the local Spelling Bees, Geography Contests and Science Fairs: homeschoolers are very active there. Museums, science centers, orchestras have contact with them. Any organization that caters to the education community knows how to contact their local homeschool leaders.

Keep hunting: most of them try and maintain very low profiles to the general public to avoid the antagonism they historically face. They do make great Scouts, though.

FScout, to a competitive, overachiever this is fun; anyway it does keep him out of trouble for now.

OGE This is the modern age of Leave No Trace. No disturbing the mastodon bones or cutting up cork trees. And do you mean he should confirm with the MB counselor before starting the badge whether some or all of these experiments can be done before he goes to camp? It would be very difficult to get him there before that week.

Evmori, You're right, of course, about Wilderness Survival. I forgot to add that he wants to "train" for Order of the Arrow: he's hoping to get elected.

He is signing up for Camping this summer, too, but I did not include that in the question because the majority of it is done already.

BTW, he did take swimming last year.

Summer Camp is coming - mid-August. My 13 1/2 year old, second year camper wants to take the above 3 badges. He is pretty determined to get those Eagle required ones first (has four now) and then horse around when he gets older. Looking over the past threads I see these rank high in difficulty level. Any advice? I told him it looks like a summer long project. He is willing to get started now on the reading and paperwork.

Peace.

Uncleguinea

1. I guess it all depends on your definition of rude.

2. You are entitled to express your opinion. But, did somebody insert the words "bad scout" into my post? I don't remember typing them.

3. Your help a little earlier regarding rude posters would have made this chastisement more meaninful. I looked for but did not see your denunciation of FOG. I guess he doesn't bother you.

4. For Pete's sake, does everything have to be spelled out around here? Decent, Dissent, Descent. Play on another thread where some poor guy was being ridiculed for not using spell check. (another example of IN MY OPINION a lack of Scout Spirit on display there). Again, I never said anyone was indecent.

5. And if the chew fits, wear it. If not, don't be offended.:)

P.S. I guess I shouldn't count on getting any Hugs from you.(This message has been edited by MrsSmith)

When I started here, I knew NOTHING about what Scouting was about. Encouragement from the "old timers (even you-know-who was nice to me and helpful) made me want to get educated. After studying the books, I was so impressed with the Methods, starting with the Ideals, that I felt like I just discovered a cure for cancer. The poll I recently conducted was definitely a reality check! I thought I had learned what Scouting Spirit should look like, so its true that I did not find as much as I expected to find. Pity its not better defined. Oh well, (sigh) I will share a cup of coffee with those kind enough to offer. And I do have hopes that the DECENT people on this forum will continue to put public pressure on the ones who cannot express their DISSENT without making the quality of the conversation DESCEND.

You may talk amongst yourselves now. Good night.