MrsSmith

I agree: life is too short to spend it reading So and so is a retard and So and so does not know his head from a hole in the ground and So and so is an obvious moron if he doesnt use spell check and so and sos mother wears army boots andSo and so is a so and so, so So and sos so-so posts are oh so stupid. In fact, life is too short to write 86 more words on the subject.

Have you tried washing out his mouth with soap? Oh, yeah, hes an ADULT. Honestly, OneHour, a week ago, I would have thought that merely pointing out to a Scout Leader that a Scout is Courteous would be enough to make a grown man stop and take stock of his behavior. Isn't that how we are supposed to influence the boys i.e., point out where their behavior conflicts with Scoutings ideals. (BTW, I dont spank. I use very stern disapproving glances, followed by heavy sighing and sad shakes of the head) If an adult isnt moved by a peer (and it appears in your case, a parent) pointing out to him that his conduct is below the standards for your organization, much less common decency, its unlikely that he will care regardless who confronts him. Maybe you need to read the tome How to get rid of the SM.

too moved for words, she wiped a tear from her eye...

(silently shaking her head)...

This has been a very instructive discussion for someone new to this organization called Boy Scouting. I have seen it written that when you obey the Scout Law, other people will respect you for the way you live, and you will respect yourself. It is useful to know where all of you "old timers" stand when considering whether to respect the advice each of you offer. I could not think of a better way to ask everyone to stand up and be counted than this. Now I know. Thank you all for your participation.

And keep the stars as a tip.....

To all veterans: Thank you for your service. Now Re Free speech vs. homosexual activists, and atheist activists, and wannabe philosophers? Its so easy to hide behind the "free speech" mantra. Speech is not free; there are many limits on it. You don't have the freedom (without consequence) to yell fire in a crowded theater or to view child pornography.

Anyway, I am talking about changing the tone, not censoring the opinions. Hey where did my stars go? I guess somebody didn't like my opinions. Hmmm....free speech anyone?

purcelce, are you serious? The Playboy stmt is a figure of speech, meaning "Do you really expect anybody to believe that". I am sorry if you thought that I was accusing you of actually reading Playboy. I don't know what you read, except this forum. But I see that it was inappropriate to lump you and Trailpounder, in with KoreaScouter. Neither of you actually expressed disapproval of FOG's tirades. At least, KoreaScouter claims he silently disapproves.

KoreaScouter: I believe the illusion that this is a virtual campfire and all the boys are in bed and therefore cannot be harmed by frank discussions is erroneous. This is a public forum; boys are learning how to be adult leaders from FOG, too.

mk9750 I know you don't mean that just because you agree with some of FOG's points, his behavior is tolerable. If you agree with a point he raised, you would probably have made it yourself -in a kinder and gentler way.

My question still stands: is there any "campfire" conversation to which you silent disapprovers would say "Thanks, but thanks"? I say take a stand for Scoutings Ideals as embodied in the Scout Law and hold FOG to them, too.

firstpusk, a change of heart by FOG would be preferable, but banishment would be acceptable. After seeing The Passion, I would not wish a scourging on anyone.

Purcelce, Korea Scouter and Trailpounder, Do you also read Playboy for just for the articles? Come on. Is there any kind of talk you would not tolerate around the campfire? And although its a free country, would you tolerate this from Scouts?

evmori, you usually sign your posts with a Bible verse (1 Peter 4:10) Why?

I don't understand people defending the ugly public face FOG puts on Scouting. In my opinion, at the very least, his more rude posts should be disavowed by the members who choose to claim to be just humoring him, unless you agree with that type of behavior by a Scout Leader. As a matter of fact, that should go for anyone who berates and degrades other members of this forum in the name of Scouting.

I have learned a lot by reading the thoughtful and considerate posters on this forum. Although many times there is disagreement, the majority dont get personal with each other. I have not been a member very long and I personally have not been the subject of any of FOG's attacks, but I have read with disgust his rude, gratuitous attacks against Bob White and Christianity. Is FOG really a Scouter; or are he and his supporters just trying to discredit Scouting by behaving so badly that anyone visiting this forum is turned off Scouting? I cannot imagine any of the boys in my son's troop saying some of the things FOG says on this public forum. Maybe thats because

A Scout is Friendly. A Scout is a friend to all. He respects them even if their beliefs are different from his own.

A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.

A Scout is Kind. A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated.

A Scout is Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

Moderator, what are your standards for posts? I am amazed that he is permitted to continue posting on a Scouting forum. Of course, everyone is entitled to have an opinion on everything, but it is impossible to take seriously the advice of someone who makes such a mockery of the very Ideals which are the basis for your forum. If you think that FOG is harmless and amusing, you need to know such Ad Hominem attacks make for very BORING posts, intimidate people who would like to participate and therefore, reduce traffic on the site. Maybe if the hundreds of casual readers like myself chose to hit the IGNORE FOG button, he would change or go away. Im willing to try.

I havent said anything before because I did not want to be attacked, too. But it was pointed out to me that a Scout is also Brave. And although I am fully aware that FOG and his gang dont believe women belong in BSA, some of you will consider the opinion of any adult who believes in Scouting and wants to support its Ideals. Goodbye FOG.

Nudge. Lots of Good stuff. Thank you Bob White

acco40 "Your pies are awesome". In English, please.

I have reached the part in both handbooks that we are now discussing and I see where it says this is not a retest. But I think I also understand how the SM is being given an informal performance review at the BOR. Very clever. Oh, that our troop followed the BSA model.... Sorry for wasting everybody's time. I will try not to ask questions until I research it first from now on. Thanks for the input though.

What if you have a troop that is not functioning as envisioned, and more specifically, a SM and CC that seem oblivious to the Aims and Methods, much less how to implement them. (See "How to Get Rid of SM")

I can see the point of those who believe that having a Guidebook might cause problems, and also how the Scout Ideals should be enough. But ByLaws,Guidelines, whatever can also serve as a check and balance to the formation of, or at least a challenge to, an entrenched oligarchy of renegade Scouters operating with no regard for the BSA model. (say that fast three times)

In our case, I can see it being helpful in the intitial education of untrained but well-meaning parents. They could then be encouraged to explore the more official resources. Remember, we have no orientation for new parents in our troop; they are left to fend for themselves or kept in the dark until they rebel (like me).

Yes, I'm new. I have been reading these forums for a while out of frustration with the way things are going in my boy's troop. Ive only recently gotten up the courage to ask a couple of questions. My first question "How to get rid of the SM" just about summed up my feelings. Since then, I have signed up for training (this summer), have secured the SM and Committee Member's handbooks, and have started studying. There is just SO much in both, its kind of like, pardon the parochialism and not to be irreverent, studying the Bible. The more you learn, the more you realize there is to learn. It can be overwhelming. And there is very little help available from inside the troop, as the other frustrated parents are new and ignorant, like me. We received nothing in the way of New Parent Info or Orientation. No, I don't have aspirations to take over the troop. I would be happy if just resembled the BSA model. Thanks for the smile.

Yikes. No Troop Rules and Bylaws forum. I misunderstood; Eamonn, you meant search the open discussion for "bylaws". OK. Thanks.

Oooops. I did not see Rules and Bylaws forum. I will go there and study more. Thanks for your help.

FOG, in a BOR you ask questions to find out if the boy actually did the work? I am really confused. What's the point of having the book initialed? Are these really just surreptitious checks and balances to prevent the "boy run troop" from running amok? Again, I am just trying to learn the theories behind the procedures.

The makeup of each is clear now. It sounds like in both conferences there are two parts. In Part One, both give the boys a "final exam" on the skills they were supposed to learn. In Part Two, both conferences focus on the boy, how well he is doing in the troop and the boy's feelings about the troop program. Additionally, the BOR gets feedback on the adult leadership.

Working hard out here to catch up. Thank you all for your feedback. Have a Blessed Easter.

Do all troops have bylaws? Who writes them? What do they include? Where is this in the written material? Thanks again for all your help.

What is the difference between SM Conference and BOR, particularly in terms of what is covered? I have been following the thread about who sits on a BOR and am totally confused. I see the ASM, unregistered parents, and the Committee Chairman all sitting on ours. But this is more evidence of the disarray the troop is in -- someone said they wonder how many troops out there are just doing their own thing without regard to the BSA way. I know of one. Help.

Right. Iron the transfer onto the blank patch. Tricky, but I think it can be done.

Please don't take this question the wrong way. This site is very informative and entertaining. (Too much so sometimes, when the phone messages are piling up.) But as a newcomer to scouting with lots of stupid questions piling up, I wondered if there is actually an official BSA forum where official BSA types are authorized to make official statements on behalf of BSA and interpret its official policies? Kind of like an "Ask the BSA expert" site? Or am I there?

Thanks for all your suggestions.

So if no one believes that embroidery is REQUIRED, then what about using the iron-on tranfers designed for use with home printers? If the boys designed the emblem on the computer and then printed it out, the only hurdle would seem to be ironing in that small of a space.

Maybe it seems too modern - not rugged enough - but, hey, this is the 21st century: GPS, polypropolene, no-impact campfires, etc. (I have been studying up)

Would an Eagle Board of Review frown on a "homemade" patrol patch? I would not know how to go about getting them embroidered around here. And $60+ to have BSA crank them out (minimum order 12) is too pricey.

Do Patrol Emblems have to be embroidered to be official? My son's patrol wants a unique patrol name and wants to know if they can use permanent markers or fabric paint to design their patrol patch. Is it official enough for inspections?

EagleInKY " the rules have changed over the years..."

For better or worse? But maybe that's a different thread.