Lynda J

Bob I know and agree with that. But there are SMs out there that want everything to be "perfect". They things to "run smooth and they don't want the boys messing things up so they simply plan everything. OUr boys do 99% of their own planning. Do things always run smooth, no. But it is their plan. Yes we guide and suggest. But it is their choice. Our Council is putting on a Cub Fun Family Day in October. The gal directing I have work on before on this same event. She called me and ask if my boys would like to help staff. At the last PLC I brought it up. They are going to think about it and make a final decission next meeting. As much as I would love for them to do this, if they don't it is their final choice and I will respect it. Sometimes it is harder on the adults to let the boys run things but it is better for the boys.

IMHO many times the problem with boys wearing their uniform is the parents. They complain about the expense, they complain about the pants look. The boys get the message from the parents and suddenly don't want to wear their uniforms. Examply. One of our boys always wore his uniform. Mom's new boyfriend made the comment he looked like a dork in it. Suddenly he doesn't want to wear the uniform. Adults set the standard.

THe entire point of it being a uniform is that everyone should pretty much look the same. The only part of the uniform I don't care for is the pants. The pockets are about a worthless as they come. They need to have cargo pockets down on the side. My Pocket knife will hardly fit in the "small" pockets. And if I put keys or anything else in the other pockets then when I sit down they poke into my leg. And no they aren't to tight. Just poorly designed. Kevin loves his uniform but complains about the pockets too.

I counsel Scholarship and have the new worksheet. Anyone that would like a copy I will be more than glad to send it to them.

Bob. Boys taking JTL does not mean it is a boy run troop. I know a troop that send their boys off to JTL but never allow them to run the troop. It is sad. The SM is such a control freak that he won't let the boys make decissions. He comes to the first planning session with a calendar all ready set up for the first 6 months of the year. Everything is already planned. Our boys want to make a trip next year. The SM and I got together and I researched what it would cost per boy (about $500). To be honest the only reason I did the research is because they are wanting to go to the part of the country where I grew up and I knew the people to contact. Gave that information to the SPL. At the next PLC they sat down and looked at the figures and said "looks like we got to raise some money" They are now in the process of figuring out fund raisers. If they make the money the adults will make sure they get to take this trip.

One of the most popular boys in our troop was not elected to OA this year. Seems the other boys didn't feel he showed the amount of leadership they felt he should. One that was not all that popular was. Seems the boys felt he had been a good leader. Any boy who has earned 1st Class and has camped a certain number of nights can be elected to OA by the members of his troop. So as far as having a secret membership there isn't. By the way our SM was inducted this year. We ask the advisor what it took. He told us that the committee had to nominate him. Our CC was there, the advisor had the paperwork. There were 4 other committee members there. The SM wasn't there. They filed the paper work. The OA advisor them took it back to the lodge committee. And from what I understand even the boys that have made brotherhood are included in the process of an adult application. I sure wish I had a picture of his face when they taped him out. One nice thing is that his oldest son was taped out on the same night. So was my Kevin. Kevin was thrilled. He got to do his Ordeal on his 12th birthday. He said he couldn't think of a better birthday present. But as far as things being "secret" I have beentold by the advisor that I am welcome to come to any meeting or outing they have.

I was so impressed with the boys that moved up into our troop in March. Within a week of crossing over they had earned Scout. They knew the material. It was obvious their leader had really worked with them. Our SPL was the one that told us that all 5 boys were ready for their SMC for scout after the second meeting. Visit several troop. Do an over night with at least one of them. All if you can. And remember Boy Scouting is totally different from Cubs. Mom and dad aren't as involved. When boys cross over into our troop we have a family camping trip as soon as possible. THe parents are invited to join us. BUT. They can not sleep with their son. They tent with the "Wise Ole Owl" patrol (adults) away from the boys. The SPL is in charge of the camping trip. The new boys are given an older scout as a buddy. They tent with this boy. All the older buddies are 1st Class or above. This gives the new boys a great experience and allows the older boys to give back into the troop as they were given to when they joined. It works. Everyone has fun. Well sometimes there may be a problem with parents. You don't do it for them. Our boys don't use first names to adults. Kevin doesn't call me Lynda. It is Mrs. J. This last camp out one father kept roaming around the camp site following his son. Finally the SM pulled him aside and explained that his son was in the care of our most experiences scout. And that scouts responsibility was to help teach his some scouting ways and that by trying to help he was not allowing that to happen. It was bothering the buddy. It took some working but by the end of the camping trip the father understood. We always do a "thorns and roses" at the end of each camping trip. Each boy and adult gets to tell one good thing and one bad thing about the trip. This fathers rose was seeing his son change during the campout. Seeing his develop skills. And by the way. THe boys aren't allowed to come into the adult camp site without permission.

Remember it isn't how fast you can get a boy to rank but how much fun and how well he learns the skills in the process. I have worked in scouting for close to 40 years. I see adults get into the mode that they have to get a scout to rank as fast as the can. Earning Bobcat is a process of improving skills. Just like any other rank is. It is repeating and practing those skills. If you set up skill stations and run the boys through and mark their books off. Does the boy really understand the learning process of earning Bobcat? NO. The reason it is called "Trail to Bobcat" is because is should be a process. My Cubs took until December to earn Bobcat. They had aball. They helped plan activities. And they don't have to all earn it at the same time. I had one boy that was finished in October. Well guess what I had him help me with the other boys. It gave him a since of responsibility. Don't be in to big a hurry.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

Our Merit Badge College is set up so that we go two Saturdays but they are two weeks apart. THis gives the boys time to do the home work. A great source for work sheets is Meritbadge.com Keep the classes to about 1.5 hrs. This way neither the scouts or the adults get burned out. Set it up to work heavely on Citizenship badges. Use resourses in your community. As have two man that work for Commanche Peak Nucular plant. They come and teach Atomic Energy (Nucular Science). We also have a guy that is in a model rocket club. He also worked for NASA. He teaches Space Exploration. My boys love MBC. we have one in August within our district and then another in January that is 5 districts going together. The main thing is getting the boys to do the paperwork.

It works the other way also. I was filling up at my regular station. Paid and then decided to get a bottle of water. The clerk and I were talking and another customer came in. I waved and walked out the door. Got to the other side of town and realized I hadn't paid for my water. I went back by the next day and told her I needed to pay for the water. She said I had. I knew I hadn't. I paid forthe water. She laughed and said she wouldn't have know the difference. I told her that I would have and would have worried that every time I came in she would look at me and wonder it I was ever going to pay for that $.99 bottle of water. How can you teach boys to be honest and trust worthy if you aren't yourself.

Bob you forgot the most important thing about having a successful troop. BOY RUN.. If the adults are doing all the planning the boys likely will lose interest. Boy planned with gentle guidence from well trained adults. Our PLC uses the program planning guide to set the program. There are times we don't do exactly what is in the plan but that is called going with the flow. But for the most part we do use it. And I partly disagree with the Merit Badges in troop meeting. Once a boy has earned 1st Class his major focus is on merit badges. Our troop breaks out after 45 minutes and the 1st Class boys work on badges and the others work on rank. I handle the boys who have not earned 1st Class yet. I also utilize the older boys for teaching. Though I do wear my uniform to most meetings Idon't think that makes a good troop. Yes it is important to set the example of wearing your uniform. But IMHO it isn't one of the top 10 reasons you will have a good troop.] I feel that District and Council events are a major part of scouting. Our boys love camporees and council events. Some have met scouts from other troops and districts. We are trying right now to set up a camping trip with a troop from another district. Our boys met them at summer camp last year. Have stayed in contact. So hopefully this fall we can get with (what our boys are calling "our brother troop") You need to remember there is a big big worlds out there outside your own troop. New experiences, new ways of doing things. So explore all your options.

There is a boy in the pack that is a Bear. He is 10. He was held back a grade in school. It was decided to keep him in with the boys is was in school with. But in your case I would try to talk him into being with his grade level. Unless you are LDS the program is set around grades. LDS is set for advancement on their birthday. To be honest there will be lots of things that the two will do together. Family Camp. Cub Fun Days. Cub resident camp. Cub-O. Just because they are in different Dens does not mean they won't see each other.

JASM. Troop Guide, lots of things. I agree that his SM isn't using his skills. I would have him helping teach the new boys. Is he working on Palms?

This just happen in the pack I move out of but in the reverse. A Den leader took CM training and took over the pack. It needed to happen. The CC was running parents off and the CM didn't have a clue what he was doing. Suddenly the pack that was dying with only 4 boys 2 months ago is up to 12 and going gang busters. The one thing is LOOK AT HOW THE TROOP MANAGEMENT IS STRUCTURED. YOu will discover that the CC is above the SM and ASM. If there is a problem than you need to get with your Unit Commissioner or a District commissioner and sit down with the SM and talk it out. Our SM it a very strong personality and keeps things pretty well under control. But he makes sure that it is a BOY RUN TROOP. How long ago did the SM and ASM take training? Have you taken Committee Specific Training? You would not believe how training can take care of so many problems.

Very probably a lot of adult influence in this rule. When I first moved up into our troop the first three camping trips we went on the only meal they cooked was "Taco Stew". Precooked ground meat, a can of corn, a can of stewed tomatoes, a can of ranch style beans. Not much on teaching boys to cook. I love our SM and his wife. But they simply don't cook. I am abig cooker. And think it is important to teach boys to cook more than stew over a campfire. When I married my first husband, my dad laughed that I could cook anything you wanted over a campfire but didn't know how to turn on the stove in the kitchen. He wasn't far from right. When I suggested the rule that you couldn't cook the same dish in the same manner two camping trips in a row. The boys liked it. They are now branching out and trying all kinds of things. They have done baked fish. Cornish hens with spiced peach filling, done in dutch ovens. There are so many things that can be cooked and so many ways to do it. This is a boy run group, but as adults it is also our responsibility to challenge the boys to grow, experiment with different things. Not just sit and collect moss.

As you begin posting to this forum please be careful about the amount of personal information you give our about yourself. This is especially true for any boys posting. As much as we would like to believe that only good scouters view our post, that simply is not the case. So just be careful with your personal information.

The key word here is "weak leadership skills" No where in the post was anything said that the scout did not attend meeting. That he did not complete the remainder of the requirements. Just in the opinion of a board member he had weak leadership skills. Like I said before. Not all great people are great leaders, and no all great leaders are great people. We can only expect a boy to do his BEST. If he is not naturally a good leader but he did the best he could do and he served his complete term for the POR then he has completed the requirement and the rank. The quality of his leadership is between him, his SM,and his other troop mates. It isn't up to the Board to decide if he was a quality leader.

I just spoke to our Council Advancement Chairman. Guess what. THEY CAN'T DO THIS. It does not matter where you purchase your advancement supplies. AS LONG AS YOU TURN YOUR ADVANCEMENT REPORT YOUR COUNCIL HAS TO RECORD THAT INFORMATION. The only exception to this is Quality Unit information. She suggested that if you keep having trouble inform your Council office that you intend to contact National if they refuse to record your advancement information. I know one SM that works in Dallas, He is 2 blocks from a Circle 10 Scout Shop. His troop is in Longhorn Council. Have never had one problem with advancement being recorded. Like the gal I talked to. She said "As long as I get a completed Advancement Report, I record the information."

Is OLS required for Cubs NO. Is it a great training to take as a Cub Leader. YES. In our area 4 districts go together and do a program we call 4 Winds. We make an effort to invite any Cub leader that want to take the training to come. The better trained a leader is the better program they will present to their boys whether they are Cubs of Boy Scouts. I took my first OLS as a Bear leader. LOVED IT. Had a ball and after close to 40 years of camping learned lots. Took it as ASM last month. Had a ball again. Learned lots more. I will be staffing the one we are doing in the fall. But don't restrict any training you might be interested in simply because someone says it is targeted to an age level you are not working with. (In case no one got it. I LOVE TRAINING)

Our CO is not very involved with the unit. Pack or Troop. They have chartered us for almost 50 years and from what we understand have always been pretty much hands off. They furnish us two wonderful building to meet in. One smaller for the pack and the troop uses the main building. Our CR is easy to access if we need something. I would prefer it this way than like some where the CO tries to set the program for the unit. I have seen that too. They do send a rep to our COH.

No there isn't a rule that you have to have your beads presented publicly. But one thing I have learned in my over 40 years of adult scouting is that many times seeing someone get an award like this encourages other adults to take this training.

YP is very specific. You as an adult are not to be alone with a scout where you are not in full view of another scout or adult. YEs. Should it happen. NO. If we have an issue with a scout that needs to be discussed out of ear shot of other scouts. The SM and another adult go into a side room and discuss what happen. Does it happen once in a while in all troops. There is no MINOR YP violation. This is clearly a violation. The SM IS WRONG. We do SMC at a table away from the other scouts. The SM and the scout are in full view of everyone. But guess what they aren't hears because they aren't yelling. It isn't a sceret meeting. I have one problem. ASM's as Committee Members. Not in our troop. If you continue to have problems with this SM my suggestin would be to find another troop. After a while if this guy is yelling at kid a lot the troop will begin to die off. One question I have. How many of the ASMs are trained in both Scout Master Basic, Essentials, and Specific? They should all have that training. All our ASMs do. It is required by our CO.

YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THIS FAMILY IMMEDIATELY. You have the legal responsibility to protect the boys in your pack. If my understanding is correct. If a member of this family assulalts or touches one of the other boys in your pack the leaders could be held responsible. If you knowingly allow them to attend functions you could be putting the other boys in the Pack in danger. I also have a problem with the adult being allowed th be a leader with a criminal background. Our CO runs background checks every three years on every adult registered with the pack. It doesn't matter how long you have been there or who you are. One of their members is a criminal investigator with the local police dept. They simply run everyone every three years. New adults are told this before they turn in their registration. But you have little choice but to remove this family from your unit. There is no gray area here hard line black and white.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

Boys are not allowed to carry sheath knives in our council. Yes we do have "fixed blade" knives in our chuck boxes. They are used when cooking only. The boys are not carried then on hikes or to activities. I have personally seen sheath knives cut through the case and cut the person that was carrying it. Took 28 stitches to sew my dad up. His knife was in a leather sheath, he fell and it cut through and cut his leg as he fell down the hill. Dr. said he was lucky it didn't stab him or he could have died.

It is not the job of the board to make the decission as to whether a scout is a good leader or not. If he served in a leadership position for the required amount of time that is what the requirements. No more no less. the Board can not require more or less than that. The deal it to "DO YOUR BEST" There are great leaders that are not great people and great people that are not great leaders. If the scout served the position for the required time and is living by scout spirit to the best of his ability it is not up to the board to denie him his rank advancement. Remember these are kids. Don't judge them by adult standards.