LPC_Thumper

First talk to your newspaper, and find out what THEY would like. You might want to get a picture of the Eagle with his completed project, and a little write up about why he did the project. Also some non-scout info is nice (things like quarterback for football team, manager basketball team, president of chess club, local juvenile deliquent, what ever) One of the nicest things about Scouting, is how different each Scout is. Good luck, but really talk to your local paper and see what they are looking for.

Please excuse the double post, not sure how that happened... I am of the opinion that it just isn't a big deal, unless the parent or Scout want it to be that.

As the Chairman for Eagle Advancement in my District, let me ask you a question (Honest, this is an attempt to really answer what you've asked)

What's the purpose of this meeting? Why do we have Scoutmaster Conferences?

Now with that in mind, why can't a dad do that for a son? Because others might think the boy got off easy? Most of the SMs I know are HARDER on their sons not EASIER. To give the Scout an opportunity to worry some? Oh don't worry, the BoR will take care of that task for you...

If you want an ASM to help with your own son, that's cool, but really what's the big deal?

(I must admit that before I started doing Eagle BoR I thought like everyone else, dad's shouldn't do this for their sons, now I'm just not so sure)

Good Luck with this, oh and by the way, congrats on your son's accomplishments.

As the Chairman for Eagle Advancement in my District, let me ask you a question (Honest, this is an attempt to really answer what you've asked)

What's the purpose of this meeting? Why do we have Scoutmaster Conferences?

Now with that in mind, why can't a dad do that for a son? Because others might think the boy got off easy? Most of the SMs I know are HARDER on their sons not EASIER. To give the Scout an opportunity to worry some? Oh don't worry, the BoR will take care of that task for you...

If you want an ASM to help with your own son, that's cool, but really what's the big deal?

(I must admit that before I started doing Eagle BoR I thought like everyone else, dad's shouldn't do this for their sons, now I'm just not so sure)

Good Luck with this, oh and by the way, congrats on your son's accomplishments.

We had a young man in our troop with this problem. He was borderline, and so just appeared a bit off. His dad (an oral surgeon that deserves his reputation as "the best" and "hard to work for") started to come to our Troop meetings. It was YEARS before we learned that this young man used to bite his den members when they got loud. The dad was there more to try and help with the sanity of the situation. This kid was "just not average." I'm trying to be polite here, it was just off of what I had seen in the 15+ years of adult scouting I had under my belt at that time.

Dad would bring a paper, or a magazine, or something, but I noticed he watched the meeting, and was hiding behind the prop he brought. It took YEARS for them to be comfortable enough with us to tell us what was wrong. Since the Scout was just barely off, all we knew is "that kid was different."

The young man has been to National Jamboree, has led group one of our patrols at Nothern Tier, is an Eagle Scout. He is a real success story, even if we had never known he had serious problems, I would list him as a real success.

We found out as we helped him get ready for his Eagle Court of Honor that he had been involved in another local troop for 3 weeks. He had been told that he was just "not Boy Scout material" (what the heck is that??). We learned this only because his mom had asked us how we would feel to have other scouters there. And our response was "Hey it's your son's party. He should have whom ever he wants at it." She told us the missing parts of this puzzle.

Find a troop that gets it. Your son will benefit from a great troop. Go find one. The argument about "bridging" to the same patrol or at least troop, doesn't apply. (You want the new boys where their "friends" are, well... sounds to be like he could use a fresh start. One young Eagle got one, and it worked out fine, even if the inexperienced, uninformed, good intentioned volunteers didn't know why this kid "was just a bit off")

Good Luck, and Happy Scouting!!

Hi,

Let me put my district advancement committee hat on and do my best. All I can do is tell you what happens with our Eagle BoRs. OK?

We don't talk about what they did for leadership in anything other than for Eagle.

(Leading question) Shouldn't the unit (either the SM or ASMs, or the BOYS) run the unit? The district isn't going to even try. Now if it comes up that the scout didn't have the leadership done for Eagle, we would conference with the SM (who is attending the BoR or we don't start).

Previous assignments won't come into play. Or rather, shouldn't come into play...

Happy Scouting!!

Hi,

There is a fine line between doing too much and doing too little. I have helped several Eagle canidates and would be happy to offer some advise to you as well. First, doing things at school is a good place to start. You have read some people's opinions as to having too many "building project" type of Eagle Leadership Service Projects. In my district, that's what we encourage so that you have something to refer back to after you graduate from the program. Ask your scoutmaster what your district thinks. If he doesn't know, as him to ask at the next Roundtable.

Second, present a project that is large enough for your troop to all participate in. In my district we have some very small troops (about 10 boys) and some troops that we consider large (more than 50 boys). Remember the word Leadership comes before the word Service in the title of the requirement. Show leadership, don't do things that don't let you do that.

Third, have fun. If you aren't having fun (I'm sure you'ev had hikes that were fun when they ended, rather than while they were going on) you are doing something wrong in the BSA. Don't worry about how you are going to balance all of these things. They will take care of themselves if we just let them.

Good luck in finishing a real task. Good luck in making Eagle. It is something you will reflect on for the rest of your life. You will be successful as you try to do it!

I had someone ask me, so I thought I'd fling this out. I will also post in ASdvancement Forum

Since Ventures can earn Bronze Award that is Sea Scout based, can they also earn the other Sea Scout awards including Quartermaster?

My knee jerk reaction is, "No, since they can't hold the offices required for Sea Scout Awards. You know with Eagle Awards it says you can do Venture offices. That sort of tells me you can't." I also told the person I'd check resources I have.

Please help if you can give reference. My local office just stared and blinked with asked.

Thanks

I had someone ask me, so I thought I'd fling this out. I will also post in Venture Forum

Since Ventures can earn Bronze Award that is Sea Scout based, can they also earn the other Sea Scout awards including Quartermaster?

My knee jerk reaction is, "No, since they can't hold the offices required for Sea Scout Awards. You know with Eagle Awards it says you can do Venture offices. That sort of tells me you can't." I also told the person I'd check resources I have.

Please help if you can give reference. My local office just stared and blinked with asked.

Thanks

You hold elections, and allow the boys to run the troop. You know what happens then? The SPL says at the end of six months "Man I'm ready to not do these things!" Another young man will step up, and then you burn him out too. Only problem with this method... the first 5 months of a six month term are rocky adventures in group dynamics. The last month flies by and it's time to do it all over again.

If you have a big troop, be sure to let your older scouts use all the offices. I mean have den cheifs, patrol guides, instructors, etc. That way you don't hear pleas like "I want to be SPL because I need it to be an Eagle." If that ever comes up grab a scout handbook and read the office requirement. We used this to method to end a problem that came up in our troop. Funny how the program works when we use it like it's described!

Good Luck!

When we form new scout patrols we give them a fully equiped patrol box. This box has everything except food in it. I mean it has soap, and wash tubs, and dishes and glasses, and pots and pans. It has a propane stove and a can of propane. It also have a dutch oven and 10 pounds of charcol. I mean it has everything. In the box is a box of wooden matches.

On their first campout, which is just the new patrols. If you are an older scout, and aren't on staff for this campout you can't come. We go over everything from how to pitch a tent, take care of your sleeping bag, clean a dutch over, what the camp inspectors are looking for, dish cleaning tips, we do it all. In fact our adults on this campout cook for them (on other campouts, they will cook for themselves, and the adults take care of our own).

We teach the concept that there are results of one's actions. We allow them to play with small fires in fire rings (the ones that are already in the camps of course). They know when they leave this over night that we're serious about these things being tools for fun, they also know that we will let them have the rope they need to hang themselves. So far it has worked for us.

Good Luck & Happy Scouting

One thing that I haven't noticed is an answer to the question, "What do I do, not file a tour permit?" The short answer is YOU SHOULD ALWAYS FILE TOUR PERMITS. If for no other reason that to eliminate your financial obligation for secondary insurance. (It also helps council with funding from other sources to be able to prove they have served so many youth in a certain amount of time.)

I'm for using the rolled up g2ss. When district/council people get in the way of program, I really believe they should be beaten. I can say this since I'm a district training chair, and a council venture chair.

While it's true we would have problems with you taking under 13 year olds rapelling, we'd smile at you taking them climbing. We'd have a problem with you taking them to white water rapids, but would help you find ships for an ocean trip, or a milder creek/lake trip.

I am also the CC for a BIG troop. We will have been to all the High Adventure Bases (Philmont/Northern Tier/Sea Base plus National Jambo over the past 4 years) When we started this cycle there were little scouts that couldn't go. They are going now. Their only concern was are we going back? Our answer on that topic is "Just as soon as they let us." Our guys know the headaches of registration, and they know if we can't get into one trip, we'll find something (climbing Mt Witney, rim to rim trip to Grand Canyon, etc) for them. Our youngest scouts know that for their safety somethings are limited to them. When the older guys go out, they know there will be outings for them too. Makes it a whole lot easier to have them stick around.

Let your local people help you, they will, err should. If they can't seem to do that, you just let me know. I'm 6'4" 260+ I'll come with my rolled up copy of g2ss.

Good Luck!!

Your analogy is on target, I think. If there is an advancement report for this merit badge then the scout will not be hung up.

I agree that if what you suspect happened then this is wrong, but since it won't cause a problem for the scout, it should be fine.

In my troop, we usually have 3 or 4 scouts run for office of SPL. We go with most votes cast that night.

For us it is a two week process. First week, nominations are made. Now when I say nominations, you should think more like "Hey I want to be the SPL!" Then they get a week to talk things over away from Scouts, and get their parents permission to attend JLT (which will occur the following weekend, after the election) Attending JLT for new PL, ASPL, SPL is mandatory, and if you are not available, then you are not eligible to be elected.

The canidates also select who they would like for ASPL, and talk with them. This way on the nite of the election, the boys know who the SPL/ASPL team will be. And can vote accordingly.

The following week statements by the canidates are given, vote is secret ballot. Once we know who SPL/ASPL are, THEY tell patrols to hold their new patrol elections. This way IF a scout needs an office for rank advancement, maybe they won't be the SPL, but they could be eligible for PL.

The next step is the SM and new SPL/ASPL go over the boys that are left without positions, and talk about Quatermaster, Scribe, Historian etc. SM also selects any needed TG. (This happens while outgoing SPL/ASPL conduct meeting.)

Might be a bit involved, but what this then does is we can have trained leaders the weekend after they are elected. We do this every six months, and we see it really helps our guys.

As a child of the 60's I can tell you that my scoutmaster was a big part of my life then. I still smile when I see heavy equipment (he was a heavy equipment operator). From time to time we see each other. I'm amazed to watch the interaction, because I'm still striving for him to tell me that I'm doing well. That means a lot to me, even now as a professional in my 40's in the 21st century.

I was a scoutmaster for a troop. My boys from that troop still stop by, the youngest one just graduated college, and came to see me. Just wanted me to know.

I was an ASM from another troop. My boys check in with me from there too. I found out before many of my boy's parents whom they were planning on marrying. I have held little babies and noticed that the kids have their dad's features. Yeah these relationships are strong, when you let them be.

As for staff opportunities, or friends from one adult role to another. (For example, I'm the committee chair for the troop my son earned his Eagle in.) Those are great too.

I am my district's training chair. We are currently getting a training team off the ground. Your post caught my eye, because we are doing New Leader Essentials, and Cub Leader Specific in 15 days.Here's what we are doing:

First, 2 months ago, I found five volunteers to help me. All have various experience in Cub Scouts. I even have a commissioner on staff. We have met twice, and practiced our presentations with each other, and are now making our handouts. Some of the staff are actually redoing the handouts.

Second, 2 months ago, we started advertising this course. The training itself is on a Saturday, the following Monday I will start on the next training. Steps 1 & 2 will be the same.

If the training is run "by the book" nothing is read from the book. There is plenty of time to discuss how to implement the ideas from the book. There is plenty of time to discuss the topics contained in the book.

I have very vivid memories of sitting down with the presenters from my first course, and getting my concerns removed. I try to do the same thing for my courses.

My trademark thing is to do the following:

Before the training starts, I ask people why they came. I write down their responses on a big piece of paper. I don't tell them if the course will cover the question or not, I just write. I continue to write until the questions stop. When they stop I ask my question again, almost always I get more questions, I think the phrase is "rinse, repeat"... I do this until I truly don't get any more questions. (It has been my experience that the later rounds of questions are much more fundamental questions, but harder to solve)

Then I thank them, and take the paper(s) over to a wall and tape them up. I don't refer to the paper(s) until the end of the course. After EVERYTHING is done for the course, I mean EVERYTHING, I walk back to my papers, and say "Before this course started I asked you why you came. If you'd like let's take a minute and review how we did getting those questions answered. On the other hand, the course is actually over, so feel free to leave whenever you'd like"

People usually gather closer now, it's their first "official" after-the-meeting meeting. Now one at a time, I go down their list. If I come to something the course covers, I ask if they see the answer to this now. I don't review it with them, I just ask if they know it now. If they don't I remind them, and leave it there. If the question they came for is not covered in the course, I tell them which course covers that question. If I don't know, I tell them to talk to their unit commissioner, or come to roundtable and ask. This is when I leave the "official" course. This is my way of not wasting their time. People helped me, I'm just trying to do what worked for me.

I was interested to see that at least in Cub Leader Specific Training they do something VERY similar. Gee might it be that traning handled by folks that aren't trainers gets bad? Naw it must be the material... NOT!!

I'd love to hear how others have resolved the preception that the lessons aren't as good as they used to be.

Good point... I think your way would work BETTER

Hi...

Call me naive (you won't be the first), BUT... here's what I'd do.

I'd take the boat, give it the boat salesman, have him sell it. Take the money and give it back to the District. They could use it for FOS, or whatever.

Why do it that way. Well for starters, If I were a member of your district and when (not if, but when) I found out that you got such a treat. I'd SCREAM, why do you get all the good stuff? It wouldn't be pretty. Now if someone like me that's smart enough to realize what I'd do before I do it has such a strong opinion on the topic, imagine what you'd get from those that aren't that smart

If on the other hand you protect your district volunteers with the idea that they really gave it to your troop since Mr. Committee Member of your troop sells boats and then you guys turned around and gave proceeds back to district, I might puff out my chest and say something along the lines of "Well OK then"

Really, I'm curious why you guys? If the district doesn't know what to do with the money, offer to help with Council Camp, with Eagle packets, with ANYTHING that helps boys outside of your troop.

This is a time bomb, be careful with it. You don't want to get it on you.

What I would is to go to the district office (bring food, it's amazing what people will do for food) and ask to review your advancement report file. (Hopefully they have a copy of all the advancement reports.) This is probably what they audit the Eagle Application from anyway. I'm very sure they have those records.

Now if they don't have records the way you do, show them your advancement reports, I'm sure they'd appreciate the audit (see that's what the food was for, a bribe).

Good Luck, let us know how it goes, OK?

Now you see why we use a lawn chair... Sure we can lash it to a tripod, not really a flag, but it's something. And if an adult is dumb enough to try and sew a lawn chair to their sleeve, we can leave him on the trail, at least he'll have a place to sit.

I agree there is such a thing as an adult uniform, and a youth uniform. While both have things on them that are similar, there are very important differences.

Packsaddle is absolutely correct. I volunteer to help scouts with this. All that REALLY matters is the Troop advancement record. When we receive a packet we go through the district's copies of those forms and verify that John Scout had the correct badges to attain each of his ranks. If he did, great. If he didn't let's go talk to the adults and see what's up.

There was a point that got me thinking, if this badge was from a couple of years ago which piece of the blue card do you have? Let me go over where each goes. There are three parts, one is for the counsellor (when the card is signed, the scout only gets two parts back), one is for the scout (he should keep until he leaves the program), one is for the distrcit (my district uses them to ensure those that are signing badges are registered. If we have an "unauthorized signer" we go and talk to them, and make them an "authorized signer")

See my concern for how you even found this problem? The opportunity for there to be an error is not that the card was not signed correctly, it's more about how did you know it wasn't signed.

Hope this helps.

In my district we run a Merit Badge Pow Wow. This past year, we had 275 Scouts show up to register in 38 classes. Now let's ask the easy question...

Did every boy earn at least one badge? NO

Since not every boy earned at least one badge was the event a failure? NO

Here's the thinking at least from the Los Padres Council... Merit Badges give boys an opportunity to learn something they didn't already know. Some times this learning will turn into a badge. In that case GREAT, good work. In other cases the boy may find that there is absolutely no way they are going to these events again. In fact they are so opposed to thse events, they aren't going to even finish them. In this case GREAT, good work. It's easy to work on something that you care about, it's an entirely different animal to work in areas where you have fears. It is also a totally different skill to realize that the task looks fun, but now is just boring.

Hope I've stirred some thought with this.

Name: Lawn Chair Patrol

Flag: Tripod lashed together with THE official Lawn Chair Patrol Emblem lashed to it.

Emblem: We have a specific lawn chair (these are the large folding ones that have canvas seat, and back, aluminum padded arms) We have graduated parents out of the lawn chair patrol (their sons have turned 18, and they want to do something other than Scouts)

Yell: "(various yawns)... Is it time to eat yet?" The more disorganized the better.

We cook together, and do things together. We try to show our Scouts how fun this can be. We work hard to have the best food, sometimes we do sometimes we don't (we've got boys that use mom's cookbooks, etc). Is this competition? You bet! Do the boys know it's fun? Oh yeah! We have all the adults eat with this patrol, except for the Scoutmaster with the NSP (we always cook too much, so that the long faces don't starve)

This keeps our adults busy enough to allow the Scouts to learn what they need to learn.

FScouter has a VERY valid point. I understand your desire to keep the troop together, that's good. You need to be VERY careful that what you are doing is including, not just pushing together EVERY member of your troop. Yes this is hard, yes this is time consuming. Yes it will make a difference. As a former Scoutmaster, I'm very proud of my Eagles (10 in 5 years), but I'm also reminded of the one young man that sits in a state prison, involved in a program reserved for murderers. Do I think I did a good job with my 10? You bet. Did the other kid fit in? No way, not even once. Do I wish I could have found a way to reach him? Nearly every time I think about my ten Eagles.

Just some food for thought for you. Good luck in working this through, spend a lot of time talking, and frankly no time punishing your scouts.

First, tell him Congratulations from an old dude.

Second, as an old dude, let me tell you, we "graduate" scouts to a Venture crew very regularly (think like a Pack to Troop move) Venturing is FUN!! Might be because I'm on the Council Venturing Committee, might be because I see lots of good kids that aren't ready to leave BSA as they sit for the Eagle B of R (District Eagle Chair), or is it that I like the fact that kids get to be kids a little longer and don't have to register as a young adult to stay in the program (I see this as the Committee Chair for a nice BIG troop)

Good luck in getting a full ribbon for that bird, and just one more piece of advice. The troop has lost a good one, let the water pass under the bridge...