LPC_Thumper

What I do, is that once they are seated, once we've introduced the BoR to them, and had their scoutmaster talk about them, I tell them that I have some hard questions for them. I ask them if they want them at the beginning or ending of the discussion. Almost always I hear something along the lines of, "Let's get them over with now." So I ask them to repeat the Scout Oath. Almost always (just one time in 2 years has this been different) they look shocked, and stand up make the Scout sign and recite the Scout Oath. I then mention to them that they said something about a Scout Law, and ask them what that is. Again the hand goes up, this time they almost always are making direct eye contact with me and repeat the Law. I thank them and ask them to be seated. We then get to the hard questions... I ask what those words mean to them. I ask them what they have done today, or yesterday in living up to them. We almost always engage in a great conversation, they settle in and we are launched. The rest of the discussion moves from board member to board member. They look like they are in control of the situation. This method works for us.

A copy of the Advancement Guideline manual would be GREAT, Scoutmaster Handbook would help too. Do you happen to know your Unit Commissioner? Might, and I stress might be worth asking for clarification from them as well. Don't tattle, instead ask for ways they have seen these questions handled. You might even point them here. Just don't make the mistake that many have. We try hard to give correct info, but just because it's on the web, doesn't make it right... Know what I mean?

I've stumbled across this in the past... The first thing I try to get to is "If we're Boy Scouts, shouldn't we run the program?" I also play the "I'm new here, I don't understand. Please explain why I read this in the manuals, and I don't see a great troop like ours do..." This approach works, because I'm NOT say "Hey you bunch of duck lovers! Why are you so messed up??" If I play dumb, and ask why things are this way, while national/council/district say to do it differently? It works for me. The key is however, you need to find some sources. Don't use the "well I saw it from LPC_Thumper and he sounds like a pretty good bead-stringer (also I hear he's handsome)." Get yourself trained, get the books and check on this yourself. Then when you do stumble into things you can just ask.

Good luck and keep us posted. It been my experience here that people try to help as much as they can.

In case I've left anyone with the idea that the young man's project was to raise money, that wasn't the point. He designed 30 portable flag poles that were given to his city's park department to be used as they saw fit. He handled the permit process for this project. He found donors for the 30 flags, he organized fund raising efforts to pay for the supplies for these flag poles, he then went to the best welder he knew (actually a very reputable man in the County) and got him to agree to the work. He then organized his troop into a painting day. They then organized a city-wide celebration for the unvieling of the flags. (Sorry I did such a poor job with my first attempt to show you that he did a non-traditional Eagle Project).

I agree with OldGreyEagle about you just don't raise money for an Eagle Project. This young man did more than that. His orginal board didn't like what he had done because they felt he missed the mark asking for help from a welder.

Eamonn, what I do is ask them what the Scout Oath is. Then since they promise to live the Scout Law, I ask them what that is. I then look them in the eye and ask them to explain what these words mean, and how they are doing what they say. Another question I ask is "Who besides your scout friends know you are here?" We are almost always able to get into a discussion about why scouts is just not a Tuesday night thing (most of the units in my district meet on Tuesday nights).

I will always remember the young man from one of our local high schools who was the quarterback on the football team. He was dating the head cheerleader, well while he was getting ready for his project his troop blew up on him. ALL the adults in his troop quit, and the boys didn't want to have anything more to do with scouts. He was upset and mentioned this to his girlfriend. She convinced him he couldn't quit too. He pulled off his project (which was a project at the High School) with the help of his football team and the cheerleaders. All of these kids came to his BoR. He talked about the fun he had while a scout, he talked about how when he finished school he was going to be a scoutmaster "and not quit." He did GREAT. I've been around some that have really celebrated when they are done, but nothing like what happened that night. It was a real treat to see so many non-scout friends trying to help him. They lined the halls of the building we were holding the BoR in, and waited outside the 30 minutes while we talked. Isn't this really what Scouts is about anyway?

When I was a Scout some of the best campouts we went on were Patrol Campouts. Now when I started reading this thread, I thought "That's too bad that we can't do this anymore..." Then FScouter actually quoted the manual (what a novel idea by the way). Can the Council say you can't go? Only if the DON'T read their manuals. Good luck with this, they are FUN, just get a copy of the manual and ask your SM about it...

I've been cooking in DO for about 20 years. Can I throw a bit in here? (If not, just ignore me )

DOs come in two heights... "standard" & "deep". This past weekend I feed 32 people a meal called "sore belly breakfast" (it consists of eggs, meat, potatoes, onions, bell peppers) I used 2 12" deep DOs and feed them for 2 meals on that (good thing we had refrigeration). All loved it, but all were full both days. I can cook 2 fryer chickens in one 12" deep DO.

My troop provides a 12" deep in each of our patrol boxes. I find that 14" are too big for the patrol box, but 12" deep fit very well.

Hope it helps.

I am a CC for my troop. From time to time our advancement chair asks me to sit on BoR. We have had younger scouts that needed some direction, so we point it out to them, with the warning that now that they are advanced Boy Scouts, they need to develop what ever skill/behavior we have become aware of that they need. (Now how do we learn that they need help in areas? Why the SM tells us silly! It works for us. We know who is coming, we know where they need to be built, we know where they are strong. We praise them for their strengths and help them see how they can make life better if they possessed certain qualities.) We have had a few young men, that we have written letters to and explained exactly why they weren't advanced (they knew it verbally, but we follow up with a letter). We sit a date in the future for their next BoR (either a goal for their next rank, or a time at least 4 weeks in advanced to show that they now possess the skills we held them up for) We very seldomly ask about skills, we are looking for behaviors.

I also am the Eagle Advancement Chairman for my district. I have had one young man that was so upset/nervous that he couldn't repeat the Scout Oath. We continued with the BoR and asked him again. It took about 30 minutes of pain, but he finally settled down enough to be successful in the attempt. We have also turned up some of the paper work that was not totally filled out, and made young men do that too. I was able to sit on an appeal for one young man. His project was to provide new portable flag poles (they were about 7 feet tall) for the city park. He had raised the money, talked to the VFW post and they donated the flags for 30 poles. He spoke with his employeer to have him weld the poles. The previous board didn't like the fact that his project was raising the money and making presentations to various city committees to get this project done. They felt that raising $1,000 with his committee was not enough leadership. They wanted him to also conduct welding classes for his troop and have them weld the flag poles. He was trying to make the poles nice for years to come. I asked him how he demonstrated leadership with this project. He explained to my satisfaction what he had done. This young man is now an Eagle scout.

Just a few other points to ponder...

Proud Eagle,

To refer back to my previous stand... you can't say things like that, let me tell you why.

1- When a camp is inspected, all that happens is that it is determined if it meets the standard. It is not rated as better than this or that camp, just the standard.

2- If they are suggesting a top three camp, then my question is this... Which of the three National Camps is it better than? What about the big California Camps, or Montana Camps, or Wyoming, or ... I could make a list of camps that would be impossible to pick from (and that list is more than 3 camps)

I understand what others are saying, I'm just trying to say what I know.

Shall we put the packs on and move the fire???

Come on folks, we can do this!

This may have changed, but it isn't broken, let's just keep on posting!!

National has a No Nickname rule??? Sorry guys I need chapter and verse for that one. I can understand not being negative with names, but...

As for my name, I got it in High School. Ever seen the movie "Bambi"? (I was the guy that always had the new girlfriend... any way one night my friends were giving me greif about being twiterpated... and Thumper came up)

Later in life I developed a limp, and I actually thump when I walk. When I did Woodbadge the staff wanted to use nicknames for us, and a High School friend started using the name. The staff were really careful to ask before using the name. Taught me a lesson.

When I was a SM all my boys had nicknames (this was 15 years ago). Rule was you came up with the name for someone else, you asked them if they wanted it, and then with their approval they were used. Many of them still use those names today... We had "Hack Saw" (the kid was trying really hard to be a basketball player, but could only foul out), "Lug Nut" (after a flat on the way to an event) "Elf" (young man was always ready some fantasy book), "Flash" (His real first name was Gordon. I thought that's what it was based on. I just learned last year that it was REALLY based on a swim suit "malfunction" from his first summer camp, his first campout. I think you understand)

We used them all the time. The parents had to figure out who was who. The troop is sponsored by a church and many of these kids families knew each other before they went Scouting.

I'm not trying to pick, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks!

Ok I must be confused. How can a CO regulate what shoes I wear to scouts, or which backpack I use? Can it also decide my hair style, or color? What about which pocket knife, or hiking staff? How about making a certain brand of tent "legal" and others not supported?

I could go on, but I think you get my drift... How then can they say whether I have tats or piercings? If asked I would think we could all share our opinions about this topic with the youth we work with, but as for enforcement of those opinions, I really do believe we can't, so why try? Besides we've all seen youth make good choices after discussing things with us, why don't you think they would do that again in this case?

Well Mr Frog (as in Kermie, not as a slam to FOG) I can tell you that many came looking for answers, and found that they too could contribute. I started reading when I discovered it looking for resources for District Training.

I had more on the subject but then remembered that stirring the pot, and name calling just aren't right. I hope that we can find a way to be more tolerant of others.

Is it bad to admit I can't tell you the last time, before today, that I was on the National Site?

It does look better than I recall it looking, by the way...

As a boy, my dad (a second generation Eagle scout) got me going to Cubs, before I knew what happened, I was an Eagle Scout.

Shortly after my son was born, his mom and I divorced. I was very concerned about him and honestly made a deal with God. If He'd take care of my son, I'd find something good to get involved with. That afternoon I ran into a guy that was the District Commissioner. He told me it would only take 3 hours a month. (Visits to Units, and a monthly meeting).

A few years later, I became the founding SM for a troop. A few years after that, I was thrilled my son came to live with me (so all the effort I did so God would bless him meant that my son would benefit directly from my efforts). Then a job transfer, a new community, and a new Scouting job. This time as Founding Committee Chair.

All the while I have served on District/Council/Regional positions. I don't know what I'd have done without Scouts.

My wife did the spouse thing while I attended sessions at PTC. Here's what she did. She hiked around, she took tours of the camp, she read, she napped, she relaxed. They did all they could to help her have a good time. She doesn't like to camp, but I know if I went home tonight, and said "Honey we're going back to Philmont. She'd be ready whenever." You should be able to get fishing poles and supplies that can be checked in at the side of the plane.

Your son is going to have a GREAT Cub Scout Day Camp experience. Your daughter will love being around other kids her age.

The staff and PTC will be ready to keep the kids busy and safe from breakfast to dinner. I would commend this to anyone that is headed to PTC for training. They will take care of your family.

Good luck, congrats, and have fun while you are gone...

Hi,

We handled this question not long ago, but you might not know where to look for it. What part of the country are you from? Where do you want to go? What types of programs are you looking for? How many campers, and about what ages are you shopping for?

There are just about as many camps as there are troops, so I'm sure we can suggest good camps, but need to know where you are from, OK?

There aren't any that should be considered anything more than our opinions.

What we do is offer the PLC a list of camps to attend, and then offer the experienced scout patrols (usually the two most expierenced patrols) the option of a High Adventure. We then allow them to tell us as a Committee where we need to put our efforts to support their interests. We don't sign up for camp without PLC input, but we rotate through our High Adventure program by which year it is.

ANY scout can attend summercamp, in fact we'd love it if the experienced guys do both, but the National Bases have age requirements so the youngest don't get to go the first time they hear about the camps. We really do run a rotation of Philmont, Northern Tier, National Jambo, and Sea Base. Our older guys love this, and will happily go to summer camp to help with the younger guys.

We also run trips down large rivers, or short (+/- 20 miles) High Sierra backpacks, or trips to Death Valley, or Grand Canyon over long weekends, or Spring Break. Since we are controlling these trips we target the middle ages and up for them.

We have about 60 boys in the troop, and of the 8 college age graduates from our troop (that currently live in the area), 6 of them are ASMs. They understand that they can go on these advanced trips as space permits, and they love doing this. It works for us.

OK, well if you're trying to find new camps, and you want to come west why don't you try...

Well first from the east would be Sea Base. Many of our guys LOVED that trip. Or you could try Philmont. That's one of those super activities that you'll love every minute of.

Once you get to California, now you are talking what I know. Camp Chawanakee is the target that many try to emulate. GREAT camp! Spent a week there myself, same GREAT program as always. Oljado is also a great camp in the Sierras. You could also look at Emerald Bay, or Cherry Valley. BOth of these are on Catalina Island (yes that island that Jack Benny, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and the gang were always talking about). You could also look into the tall ship "The Argus". My local camp, Rancho Alegra, is GREAT for young scouts, but really isn't good for older boys. The best camp for all ages, like I said is Camp Chawanakee.

Now, our guys that have done all these, AND have climbed both Mt. Shasta & Mt. Whitney, and crossed the Grand Canyon will tell you that the best camping they did as Boy Scouts was at Northern Tier. I have to admit it has the BEST food and we didn't even get fish.

Fuzzy Bear,

Yes you can elect to throw your boots over a sign at basecamp. It is my understanding that they take them down on a yearly basis. But hey, if you get them branded... then they become immortal. Unuseable, but immortal all the same

The boots may be have holes but we can't throw them out THEY'VE BEEN BRANDED!!!

Hey did you know that if you brand gortex, it isn't water proof anymore

We went a couple of years ago... (really summer of 2002). Here's what I wish I'd done.

WALK. I blew out a knee on our first unloading. I was hurt, and walked slowly the entire trip. I wish I could have been stronger.

PUSH UPS. LOTS OF PUSHUPS. My upper body HURT.

It was cool in the daytime for us, and HOT at night. I brought a +20 bag that was never zipped up. In the daytime however I almost always had a sweatshirt on. A big floppy hat, my expedition hat was PERFECT.

Lots of DEET. DEET is our friend. As I sat in the shower house after the trip I stopped counting at 120 bites on my two arms and body (didn't count my legs, my back or my face).

Bring seasonings. The food is some of the best I've EVER had at a scoutcamp. Pretty good statement when you think you get supplied to start the week and haul it EVERYWHERE you go. It was nice to spice things up some (I'm from California, so we liked salt/pepper, garlic, onion, and tabasco) Eat all your food, you'll get tired and sick if you don't.

Don't count on fish to supplement with. Our troop was broken into 2 crews, we went in 2 different directions. One crew ate too much fish, the other crew only caught one bass for the entire trip. It sure tasted nice on the next to the last night, even if you only get one forkfull.

Bring LOTS of film. IT'S WONDERFUL. TAKE LOTS OF PICTURES.

Bring a thank you gift for your guide. Unlike Philmont your guide goes out the entire time with you.

Don't get cheap boots. I couldn't fit my size 14s into the Army Surplus boots, my son could. I had to spend money for a real pair of 'guide boots' (felt sole and all). My boots made it no problems, my feet made it no problems. My son with his Army Surplus supplies got to visit the foot doctor when we returned. His boots shrunk and then fell apart. Bring Duct Tape (but you know that, you can't camp with Duct Tape) Be prepared to be wet and dirty, you are going to be both.

Also be prepared for a GOOD TIME. It is a wonderful place. Good Luck! Let us know how it goes when you get back. Have fun, and "pull!!"

I need to be careful you guys will think I don't have a life outside of SCOUTING... Guess what? I don't!!

I used to be a camp inspector in the Western Region. I can tell you there is no official list. That's not how it works.

What does works is this. IF a camp passes the guidelines that National puts out about what a camp is, then they are "certified". You can spot a certified camp by the use of a banner with the National Camp logo on it (antlers and logo). It will also have a year on it.

This all said, don't fall for anyone telling you they have anything other than someone's favorite list... Good luck in your shopping.

The Exp hat is the best hat BSA has made since the little fold-able one I wore as a kid in the early 70s. I liked that hat because I had a picture of my dad with a uniform on from the mid 50's. I don't know if the picture was taken in Japan or Korea, but you get the idea.

I have worn my exp hat on a trip to Philmont, on a trip to Northern Tier, to various trainings (I've been on Woodbadge staff and was able to wear it there without even batting eyes, well until they handed out the troop hat). It's been a great investment, and frankly a good friend.

Now what's all this noise about "smokey's are good, and Indiana Jones' are bad???" Come on guys let's think this through!

Crew53 brings up an interesting point... This year at summer camp, I found a troop from my council. This camp is known throughout CA, and is not my council camp. I tried to make friends with the adults.

One of their young men had hair down past his shoulders. The adults were all buzz cuts. I thought to myself "self, this would be an interesting situation." And I marvelled at how clean this young man was. (This camp has a fine black talcum powder type soil that gets EVERYTHING EXTREMELY dirty) I was just amazed that this guy could keep hair like that clean when I felt so grimy.

About that time one of the adults from his unit leaned over and told me how he was a "&^*$ surfer, but the adults would resolve the problem." I looked at the adult and was told that while the young man was a good kid, and a natural leader, that hair just had to go. They were prepared to not sign him off on his Eagle Scoutmaster conference, until he started living the 11th point of the Scout Law. (Now you know why I stressed how CLEAN this kid was)

I was floored. I am our district's Eagle Board Chairman. I watched this kid, he helped the younger scouts, and those around him, he is a good kid. I can look past his hair.

I watched him for the rest of the week. Every time I saw him, not only he but all those around him were smiling and happy. He is a good kid. On the last day of camp, I walked up and told him that if he needed someone to help him with an appeal because of comments I had heard about his hair, I would be happy to. He just smiled, and said "I'm not cutting it just to show them." Talk about adding to the requirements... I have also talked with his district Eagle Chair, he's ready to help this kid too.

Now in regards to your tats. I get the feeling that either you are getting grief or are concerned because you are trying to get employed by Scouts, or are working on finishing your Eagle. I can't talk about the employment thing, other than to echo what has already been posted. Now on the other hand, if you sat in front of me with them I would wish that you didn't have them. I don't like them. We would talk about your project, we would talk about your time in the program, and then if you have the skills, abilities, and attitudes of an Eagle scout, I would congratulate you for a job well done. Your way to claim your individuality is not what I'd have done, but... that just doesn't matter. Good luck finishing up what you started.

I've let this out a few times before, I am one of the resources for Venturing in our Council, let me weigh in on this.

Uniforms... As long as the uniform does not distract from the goals of Venturing, the crew decides what it is. For example, the retro cub scout uniform that Linda Rondstat made popular in the 80's while nice on her, wouldn't work for a crew. Just like "Mega-Death" tee-shirts might also not be quite what National had in mind.

Crew decisions... National is vague on the topic of "is that each member of the crew or their leaders." It makes sense to me that if it's a crew decision, then the crew should decide, but what ever they come up with is GREAT.

Problems with misunderstood Ventures... There are always going to be people that are willing to give their advice and counsel no matter how unwelcomed it is. (I mean hey, where would this forum be without that concept?) I have been an adult at camp for 15 years, while there are things I've seen there that make me cringe, there are great things there too. When (notice not "if", but rather "when") a well meaning SM tells your kids what they are doing wrong with their "unis" have your female board member go talk with him. I'm sure that he'll slip a gear, oh and be sure to sell tickets to the discussion. I'm sure it'd make a great fund raiser for your trip to any of the Nationl High Adventure Camps. (Or in other words have your young people ready for older adults to not have a clue about what they are doing)

Hope I have answered your questions. Hope you can read the humor in my post. If I come off anything other than light, please change whatever words you need to soften this and make it sound like we're just chatting about things that are important, and are NOTHING like the rest of Scouting.