le Voyageur

I went through the week long old course, and yes, it was worth it even though I'm a council level scouter. It allowed me to understand the many issues that concern Unit Leaders which gives a bit of insight into running high adventure program. However, Wood Badge is not a high adventure training program, and those expecting to learn a bit of advance woods craft will indeed find it lacking......

uhhhh gwd-scouter....that's a miter, not a yamulke'

Since I'm a pagan and my church is the outdoors, I guess I should ask all you to remove your hats before entering, hey...

Another thought per your concern, B which is a great question... One of the problems that I've notice is that it could be accidently tied using a half hitch for the top knot instead of the overhand. I'll add that to the test to see where it's goes.

happy dance....once you get the hang of it, it's fairly simple to tie. I've yet to see it come apart. But that's with static loading. This summer, plans are to subject it to several Fall Factor 2's to see what happens....for the Redirect I'll run it through several different types of hauling systems, and off axis loading to see how well it works....

Agree, wish there was a way to post photos here...but, let's see if I can better confuse it.... Form the bight, and tie a overhand in the bight near the top leaving about 8 to 10 inches of tail at the standing end. Push the end of the loop up and back through the overhand's deadeye. Adjust the loops, then tie the second overhand above the first. Dress and snug the knot. In effect it's a grapevine that bowties three fixed loops. Two on the botton, one at the top.....

Here's a short list of my key referance books..... The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel The Tree Climbers' Guide (3rd Ed.) Military Mountaineering U.S. Army FM 3-97.61 Here's how to tie this knot... Begin with a bight about one arm's length. About 8 to 10 inches from the bitter end tie in a overhand. knot (at this point the knot can be tied into the harness) Bring the loop up through the overhand. Reduce these loops to about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in D. Tie the next overhand above the first keeping the same D. about the same size as the lower loops. Snug and dress the knot. This is the Redirect loop....

I've several sources older then Ashleys. one being an 18th century manual on sailing and rigging...however, it's nowhere near a bosun chair knot. So far, no match up. None the less, I'll continue to research it, as I've found that many times those claiming to have invented a new knot have only rediscovered the past... as an example, an 18th century Blood Knot is known today as a Fisherman's or Grapevine...

From my Man O' War runner that I've been using over the past two seasons in SERNE anchor systems using deadman chocks came a bit of insight for a new climbing knot that I'm calling the Chimera... Like the Alpine Butterfly it can be tied anywhere along the length of the rope, or used at the ends for hauling systems, to secure a climber to the belay line the same as the F8 Trace, or for rescue work. The big plus is it's Redirect which gives it greater flexibilty. Plans are to do a write up with photos and submit it for consideration....

I've always played the role of the devils advocate. It time, a lot of the concepts that I tossed your way will start to make sense....

Pappy, One of my jobs in the military was to keep young Officers from hearing only their own brilliancy......

The orginal definition for honor ment grants of land. Honors were granted from kings to subordinates for deeds and services along with a fancy title such as Lord, Barron, or Duke, and who remained at the king's beck and call. Failure to "honor" one's kingly oath would see an immediate reduction in land holdings, as well as their position in society....

Pappy... The English lesson wasn't needed, just wanted a clarification seeing that you were using broad brushstrokes. so again, who are the "we's" you're now referring to when using the word "our"? Maybe the reason that I am not interested in being one of your "we's" is that I've had my fill of arm chair generals and conmandos in the BSA who dream of nothing better to do then militarize their units. The worse one was a wannabe at Camp School who had read far to much Clancy. Never served a day in the military, but bragged how he had led an elite SEAL team on a daring Phoenix mission against a Taliban training camp, and was now ready to serve his Council as a Program Director..... so yes, please leave me out of your "we'ness"....k, thanks

May I ask who is the who being referred to in the word "our" in your heading?

One of the benefits of being Christian is that the bible guides us in these matters, and cautions us to be weary of the world, especially when it concerns our children. Pappy My problem with a Christain government be it at the national level or within an organization is that the Bible is full of "thou shalls", "thou shall nots", fiats and decrees. It is not democratic, it lacks a Bill of Rights, has no trail by jury or due process, allows for cruel and unusual punishment, allows slavery, reduces women to property, and promotes ethnic and racial hatred. Kings and leaders are chosen by lineage, or the pretense of the will of god, peons get no say....

As I read, and reread Pappy's posting, I think the "beef" is that Pappy wants a fully Christanized BSA, and for others to "follow his lead". It's simply not about Red State/Blue State as I see it. Just as I don't belong to the Royal Rangers, I would quit BSA in a heartbeat the moment should it becomes a fully Christinized organization...let's at least keep it secular, and stop dividing our scouts up as booty for some hidden political agenda that pushes only a one note theological meme....

My boys, on the other hand, seem to aspire to succeeding and participating in the Christian Soldier Scout model I have been going with.....pappy hmmmmm.....double checking me calendar. Nope, not the 12th century either...

hmmmmm......checking the calendar. Nope,not 1860...whew!!!!

I posit that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are the principal deities of two powerful cargo cults. Just because they lack the awe factor of the current alphas, they are none the less gods. Consider, is a child's imagination of his/her gods (Santa Claus) any less then that of an adult who believes in Pearly Gates and streets of gold; that, or he'll get his own personal planet in the next life for perpetual procreation to seed another universe? As I see it, any time we imagine, or define our god, then that god will always be smaller then our imagination. However, a universal truth is that all gods die. Jehovah, and Jesus in time will go the same way as Anu,or Tuatha-De-Danann...because all civilizations die, and the new that rises from the ashes always leaves the old gods behind.

i.e. the rebate, my suggestion is to give the Feds a wake up call by several million taxpayers using those funds to buy firearms and ammo....trust me, the war in Iraq would be over in less then a week, saving taxpayers 12 billion dollars a month in borrowed monies..

Eagledad....75 000 is correct. I would ride 90 miles round trip to work, then on the weekends head out from San Diego to places like Flagstaff, Yosemite, or where ever for morning coffee. Other times it would be with the GWRR's doing pre rides for poker runs. Also those miles includs two trans America rides to visit a girlfriend in New Jersey... Goldwinger...I've no clue as to why Yamaha stopped making that tourer, and I wish they would bring it back. However, the only time I was running at 140(and includes passing a county sheriff in the process, who also was running at top end in his Ford Maverick) was in Colorado. Had 3 tornados touching down at the same time. Trust me, it'll motivate you to exceed the speed limit..

Should an atheist believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny would that be enough to meet BSA's religious standards?

Sorry Goldwinger. But the truth is the truth. At the time I was an outrider with the Gold Wing Road Rider Association, Chapter C in San Diego (late 70's, early 80's). The Yamahauler had more torque, better handling, better breaking and a top end that allowed me to hit 140 mph. Also, I didn't need after market products to up the comfort level for long distance touring....most Wing riders were using Vetter's farings and saddlebags with a mix of saddles. Back then the basic Wing was a very different ride then it is today.

For pot roast, I prefer venison shot and butchered by myself. With vegetables from the garden, roasting in a dutch oven over hot oak coals from trees that I've dropped, and split..... Served with sourdough bread, and a good hearty stout...

For backpacking - Copper Canyon, Mexico For cycling - two weeks on the AlCan For canoeing/kayaking - Peace River, BC Canada For Alpine Climbing - Mt. Logan, Canada. Something closer, Mt. Shasta