ASM59

Beavah, In re-reading things, you are correct in your point that the critisism here, if there is any, should be directed at whoever gave the DE permission to sleep in the same cabin with his fianc. Also, my point in my last post is only that Christians are called to a certain lifestyle which includes what many here view as an old fashioned view of marriage and living together (sex before marriage). If BSA is adopting these same values, and has rules to follow in line with these values, people who are a part of the organization should comply with those rules. If people w

Beavah, I'm shocked. I cannot believe that you'd dare say that expecting people to follow the rules is being judgemental and unchristian. I'd also suggest that if you quote scripture to make your point that you look at it in context. The rest of the scripture that you quote says that if the person will not listen to you, then take another person or two to confront him. If he still will not listen, take him in front of the whole church. If he still doesn't listen, treat him like he's a heathen and publican; in other words treat him as though he is no longer a part of the church.

I would tend to agree with Buffalo. In my opinion, the hours put in for fundraising should be included; it's a part of the project. As he points out, in your case, the ultimate deciding factor is what your local Council or District Advancement Committee thinks. I have seen many different opinions of how to interpret these things depending on which Council you may be speaking to. So, I'd speak to your Advancement Chair person and see what his/her opinion is. ASM59

While what Bob White says is true, there are legitimate things that go on within a Unit that could be documented as a help for future volunteers. You should be careful to document them in such a way that lets the future leaders know that things could changed based on necessity or creativity. Just because we've always done it this way doesn't mean it couldn't be done better. Here are a few things that I was thinking about (starting with Calico's list): Banking information Pinewood Derby set-up/tear-down and storeage location Where your local Scout shops are Local Council office an

1) *Engaged Party shares a Cabin 2) *Scouts most likely don't know their martial status. The two previous events have no impact on the scouts, or the program. Ah, but you miss some possible outcomes: 3) Other leaders see that the DE has a disregard for the rules or at least the one that he doesnt want to follow and decide that they too can pick and choose the rules they want to follow. Next month outings occur with total disregard to the G2SS Negatively impacting the program -or- 3) Parents see that the DE is violating Scouting rules that they believe in and 12 famil

"The training in this case does not benefit the District and Council. It benefits YOUTH!!! Everything that the District and Council does benefits youth directly or indirectly. If an activity does not, in some way, benefit youth, why are we doing it? Your being a trainer helps youth and helps the adults who are serving youth." Yes, ultimately the purpose of training is to benefit the youth involved in Scouting. I will not dispute this fact. However, the training that I am talking about does indeed benefit the District. They have goals for training, therefore, they must offer X number of

ScoutNut says, "Consider that, as a District Trainer, you will be asked to donate much more than $5. You will be asked to donate your effort, your enthusisim, your time, and your families time. No one is forcing you. If it is to much of a commitment, then simply do not take the course." I am well aware of the fact that it will take time to be a trainer as well as enthusiasm. I am also aware that no one is forcing me to do it. I am willing to make the commitment, but I do not agree that it is correct to have to pay cash out of my pocket in addition. I am passionate about the Scouti

OK, I understand Troop level training having a charge. Our Troop will even pay the charge for the training because it benefits the Troop. Sometimes I actually let them pay. Typically, the person who benefits from the training will pay. It's like when my employer pays for training that helps me to do my job better. I can even understand paying in part or in full for the CPR and First Aid training as that can be of benefit outside of Scouting. But to charge fees to volunteers who are getting trained to be District Trainers, seems backwards. Yes, $5.00 doesn't seem like that much, and

Hello, Today, my daughter (registered as an ASM) and I received an e-mail from our District Training Chair. Here is a quote from the e-mail: "I have you down as a possible attendee for the Trainer Development Conference. ... We are sorely in need of trainers. Being a Scout trainer is a perfect way to help without a large time committment; a one day four hr training conference and 2 hours every 3-4 months. The conference is Sunday, Oct 5th, 1-5 @ Council. A $5 supply donation is being requested to cover the cost of copies for handouts. ... Please respond asap to let me know if you

DYB..., So what made it OK for your wife to help the lad with his belt and not you in the eyes of the Chairperson? Is it because your wife isn't registered? Or because she's a Mom? Just curious... ASM59

Barry implies in a recent post that it may not be appropriate to touch a Scout or to give a "shoulder hug" to a Scout who just got hurt to comfort him. Nevertheless he says that he does it anyway always in site of others. Now, I have been told many times in the past that it is NEVER appropriate to touch a Scout for any reason. My training in Youth Ministry says that a touch is very effective and seems to contradict the admonition to not touch a Scout. Now certainly there are inappropriate touches and thats not what were talking about here. What I want to know is, Is it written anywh

Even if the units were right next to each other, CNYScouter would have to agree to be the second leader for BOTH units. If in name (or on paperwork) only, then it's really not two deep leadership. He would really have to somehow split his time between the two units. I don't see this as being fair to him or to the new unit that he agreed to go with. I think that joining the two units for this outing (such that they are registering to attend together) would be the only way to make this happen. But as CNYScouter says, "its up to them to contact the other Crew going to work this out". CN

OK, I was brought up with the notion that kids dont always know what is best for them, hence many nights sitting at the kitchen table for hours after having been told Eat all your broccoli or else! Well I surely did not want to eat the broccoli, but I knew better than to challenge my parents on this. The same applied to going to Church, getting homework done, obeying teachers (or any adult for that matter), and much more. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I still believe that this old notion is true; up to a certain age. Lisabob makes the choice that her son must be involved in something

Adults who leave Scouting when their sons leave had only one reason to be there. In my experience, those who stick around have caught a vision of how Scouting can help to mold a young life and they want to help. They have a true Scout Spirit within them that drives them to stay involved. I know that there are those, like Lisa, talked about who are real sticks in the mud, but in my experience most are really trying to do a good job. As has been pointed out, there are those with boys in the program who can be real pains also. So I think it is fairer to say that it comes down to

Hello, As an ASM and Father, I always let the other adults in the unit deal with my son if it was necessary. Likewise, if my son had an issue, I instructed him to talk to his SPL or when he was SPL, to talk to one of the other adult leaders. I did this to stay objective and let my son have the same experience in Scouts as the other boys even though Dad was there. Did I have a "vested interest"? Yes, because my son was there. At least in the beginning that was the primary reason but as time has gone on, my interest is in seeing the Troop run properly and helping to provide a program w

Traditions and preconceived notions are difficult to overcome. I have seen Eagle Projects approved in other Councils that would never get by in our Council because projects of this type have always been rejected. This is regardless of how the project was written. In fact, I know of cases where projects were not even read because someone told the Advancement Committee that its just a food drive. Perhaps the project still would have been turned down, but it made it all the way to the District Advancement Committee, so it should be given serious consideration. Likewise, I have heard similar

BW, To clarify, we typically sign off on the Scout Spirit requirement during the SM Conference. When I have the opportunity to conduct the SM Conference, I spend quite a bit of time discussing the Scout Law, Oath and Scout Spirit with the Scout. I do lead the discussion to try to get an honest answer from the Scout as to how he feels he is doing with fulfilling this requirement. So, yes, I typically let the Scout tell me if he is demonstrating Scout Spirit. Only once has the discussion revealed, and the Scout admitted, that he was not properly demonstrating Scout Spirit. So in th

OGE, Based on what you've posted, the Scout should be signing off the requirement to show Scout Spirit. I guess this could take the form of the SM sitting down during the SM Conference and discussing the matter with the Scout and the two of them coming to an agreement that he has been living it. ASM59(This message has been edited by ASM59)

OK, BW... good point. Thanks, ASM59

OK, I'm confused on a point that BW just mentioned. If the Adult male is responsible for and must be housed with the male youth participants and the adult female is likewise to be housed with and responsible for the female youth members; does that mean that there is not an expectation for "two-deep" during the night? Maybe I misunderstand, but "housed with" to me means in the same facility; such as guys cabin and gals cabin or something similar... Of course it could also mean my adult tent is pitched on the same side of the campground as the male youth tents... ASM59(This mes

In this case, our SM's wife is also on the Troop committee, so both are not only registered, but fully trained. SMs son has aged-out, but is a registered ASM. He is in college & working so cannot attend this outing either. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I don't remember any stipulation regarding the relationship of the two adults, except as to if they can share a tent or not. In my previous Troop my wife (who wasnt registered) accompanied me on a couple of outings because there were no other adults available to go. I never heard any complaints or comments from District or

Good Day, I was informed today that our Troop is canceling this weekend's outing because of lack of leadership. It was explained that only the SM and his wife are available and this does not qualify as two deep leadership for an outing. Unfortunately no other adults are available this weekend, and because of that the outing is canceled. I don't ever remember this question coming up before and I haven't researched it yet, but was wondering if this is someone's interpretation of the rule, or is it really a violation to have a husband and wife as the only adult leaders of an outing?

Hello, I think it is just about impossible to give a good answer to your question without having a good feeling for the event, number of people attending, and their likelihood of purchasing stuff. When I was treasurer of our local Pack and my wife was fundraiser chairperson, we had pop & water sales at our local summer festival in town every year for 5 years. Our first year, we profited nearly $900.00. I cant remember the total number of pop cans and water bottles sold, but I know that the very next year at the same event we only sold half the amount of pop and water. Again

highcountry, I understand your frustration, hopefully in your case others will realize that they need to step up and do their jobs. If not, hopefully there is another Troop in your area for you (and your son, I assume) to go to. It's interesting to hear of others who have had to do the same thing to try to keep a unit going. I wonder if there is anything that the local Council or BSA national could come up with to help? Like a video that could be shared with parents that would perhaps help to motivate them to help, or at the very least accurately describes the time that the volunt

Yes, I understand that in the previous post there was not only an expectation that the incorrect person would handle the paperwork, but also a failure by that person to come through. In this thread, I wanted to ask the question that I did in general to get an idea of how others view doing things that are "not my job". Looking at my example above, at the time, I was doing my best to keep the Troop alive (for the Scouts). However, the more I did, the less likely I was ever going to get someone else to do what I was doing. It became expected that I'd do it, so nobody else felt the respo