KoreaScouter

I live and work in a military culture in which hair, tattoos, and piercings are a near-constant source of official and unofficial discussion and attention. To establish my "creds", neither my son nor I have piercings or tattoos, and we both have short haircuts (I because the military says I have to, and him because his mom says he has to). The body's a temple, etc., etc.

Having said that, I don't necessarily see tattoos or body piercings in the broad sense as negative character indicators, which is the argument we seem to be hanging our hats on. Silly looking? Perhaps. A impulsive juvenile-driven thing that's almost universally regretted later on? You betcha. But a negative character indicator? I'm afraid I can't make that logic leap...maybe I'm not getting the point. I'll concede that some piercings and tattoos (especially) reflect incredibly bad judgement and can hint at possible character issues. But, I can't question the character of someone who got a tasteful (if you can define any tattoo as "tasteful") "United We Stand" on his bicep after 9-11, just because it's a tattoo.

Piercings can be removed; so can tattoos. But, the content of one's character is internal and can't be removed like an earring. In the same sense that an earring by itself shouldn't define someone as a...pirate, being clean cut shouldn't by itself define someone as an upstanding citizen.

In a previous Scout unit, I was the unit leader, and my assistant had a punk haircut, multiple piercings (not outlandish), tattoos, and even one of those raised cattle-brand looking things, I don't know what you call them. This person was also a dedicated spouse and parent of 3, selfless volunteer, incredibly effective Scouter (wore only earrings at Scout activities), and one of the top five scroungers I've ever known (and I've known some good ones in the military). Tattoos outside, character inside.

regards,

KS

One thing that may be reinforcing rolling over Eagle required MBs beyond four from Star Reqt's to Life Reqt's columns is the big laminated wall chart many troops (ours included) uses to graphically depict advancement status. That graphic aid has column headings that "require" the entry of four Eagle required badges and two electives for Star...ditto for the Life column.

KS

In my experience, the greatest drama for a Boy Scout leader comes from just-bridged Cub Scout parents. They're used to the den leaders running things, making decisions, and spoon-feeding the parents on everything they need to know. Many parents, especially if they don't have Scouting experience themselves, expect the same treatment once their sons join a Troop. For some, it's a very rude awakening when they find we don't operate like that.

I had one mom in particular (Dad was in the home, but not really involved) who expected a personal call from me to repeat everything her son was told by his PL, SPL, and so on. I don't think I ever got it through her head that we're boy-led and that I expect the PLC to get the word to the Scouts, and the Scouts to talk to their parents.

To their credit, the Scouts get used to taking the responsibility by and large, it's the parents that are slow on the uptake...

ks

A well-designed pair of convertible trousers will not chafe when zipped off, because the zippers will not touch the skin.

The issue for the military is not the durability of zippers -- two things would survive a nuclear war: cockroaches and military zippers. I had an opportunity to speak with uniform field test specialists about convertible trousers a couple years ago. They're a popular recurring suggestion, but the standardization problems and "uniformity" concerns outweigh the comfort advantages.

Convertible trousers made of a quick-drying, wicking material (which they should be anyway) should not fade at all, but even if they did, the slight shading differences would be far less "tacky" than some Scouts in official pants, some in jeans, some in technical clothing, some in gym shorts, and some wearing the very convertible trousers we "don't allow".

I don't agree that a Scout with a high absence rate neccessarily equates to a substandard program. While that certainly may be the case, it could just as easily (and often is) a fact that the Scout may have registered under parental duress, had different expectations, doesn't really buy in to the aims, is under peer pressure, or in the case of older Scouts, is experiencing one or more of the 3 W's.

Let's face it, we're going to lose Scouts, for all the above reasons and many I haven't thought of. Let's try not to take it personally, or blame ourselves if a Scout quits now and then. And, some who stay will not advance. I don't think we should take that as a personal failing either. Whatever a leader's standards are, if they're consistently applied, fair, and clearly understood, you're okay. How about a little "live and let live"?

I've been to many district/council events and seen unit leaders whose leadership styles don't match mine; some screamers, some laissez-faire, some overly militaristic, some macro guys, some micro guys, and so on. I would never presume to try to change their styles. I hope they would extend me the same respect.

KS

Here's a requirement for 2C: Attend five troop/patrol activities other than meetings, two of which involve camping overnight. Cut and dried. You can't have a troop policy of 7 activities, or 3 out of 5 involving camping. There's no disagreement here on that.

Now, fast forward to the "Show Scout Spirit by living the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life". Neither cut nor dried. If a given troop's Scouts, families, leaders, and committee members all have a common frame of reference and a crystal clear, identical definition of what living the Oath/Law means, that's fabulous. But for the overwhelming majority of us who don't have that luxury, circumstances require articulation, particularly with advancement riding on it. Example: What is "obedient" and "...help other people at all times..." in the context of Scout Spirit? Obedient all the time? Impossible! If you miss one campout, are you helping other people (your patrol buddies) at all times? Obviously not by the words of the Oath, but should this be disqualifying? Of course not!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming BSA for vague language. It is vague in the Scout Spirit area compared with most other requirements. But, I think that's deliberate and acknowledges the fact that when you're dealing with boys between 10 1/2 and 18, with a wide range of demands on their time, different levels of family obligations, varying degrees of troop responsibility, etc., a single attendance/participation standard can't be applied. But, as every Scout scans the advancement requirements for each Boy Scout rank, they all stop at the "Show Scout Spirit" requirement and wonder, unlike tying a bowline, what the standard of completion is. That's why it's incumbent on us as leaders to ensure there's no ambiguity. I do that through SM conferences and real-time feedback with each Scout; other SMs have different methods. The end result for all is (or should be) no misunderstandings about whether or not they're showing Scout Spirit (or if they completed any other requirement for that matter). Percents, bar charts, fractions, coin flips, whatever, is less important than the end result: just as they'll know when they've used lashings to make a useful camp gadget, they'll know that they've shown Scout Spirit.

I don't think it's broke, and I don't think it needs fixing. In this, as in other areas, some overzealous volunteers may be applying a somewhat skewed personal interpretation. You get what you pay for.

We were on the verge of cancelling our "wilderness survival" campout this past weekend because a typhoon was supposed to come right over our heads on Saturday night. On Thursday, it broke south and west, and we decided to go.

Saturday was the hottest day we've had this year so far; high 90's with humidity to match, and almost completely clear skies meant constant sun. Ditto on Sunday. We took 6 5-gallon water jugs up there and an 8-gallon jug filled with ice. Six hours after we got there, we filled them again, then again the next morning. 90 gallons of water for 14 persons in 28 hours. We had tarps up and plenty of wooded shade area, and they all drank enough to stay hydrated.

We followed all the guidance on hot-weather activities; scheduled movement outside of the hottest times of day, proper clothing, hydration, eating right, staying in shade, etc. Despite that, the heat definitely affected us and took a little of the fun out of it. In a way, I'm glad it worked out the way it did, because a part of our skill instruction was how to stay effective in extreme weather, and this was definitely extreme for us.

I guess if you live in it all the time it's one thing, but we get this in the summer and cold/snow in the winter (frankly, I prefer that -- I can always get warm with the right clothing).

KS

Hikingdad;

I told you in my firt post to this thread to get ready; the opinions on this are divergent.

I think we're all getting a little carried away on this. For example, Sctmom: I know from this forum you're a single parent, and when school's out, your son goes to Grandma's. If he were in the troop I serve, we wouldn't have a problem with that. The key, as with most things, is communication. As a courtesy if for no other reason, leaders should be informed of extended program absences or situation changes that may affect the Scout's participation...especially if he's in a leadership role and others are counting on him.

And for everyone else, this is not an absolute black/white thing either. It's true that BSA doesn't prescribe what constitutes active beyond being registered. Nor do they publish specific definitions of what is "helpful" enough, how long a Scout can dawdle before he's not considered "obedient" , or what "Duty to God" means in the Oath, and so on, and so on. There's no cookie cutter standard, and that's why leaders apply judgment and heuristics based on what works best for their troops, within the BSA construct. None of us do everything the same way, and that's okay as long as we're in-bounds. One thing I tell all the Scouts in their conferences is that Scout Spirit is subjective, and if they're not showing it, I'm going to let them know way before their next SM conference. And BTW, I hold older, more experienced Scouts, especially the green bars, to a higher standard across the board as I'm sure the rest of you do. Let's face it, before we sign the "Show Scout Spirit" requirement, we've determined the Scouts completed it. How do we determine that? We have standards -- conscious or not, written or not, hung on the wall or not, but we still have standards. Some troops articulate some of those standards formally. Some choose not to. Either way's okay as long as it works for you and doesn't run contrary to BSA policy.

And, as Eagle90 has said, it's most important that the Scouts themselves, via the PLC, determine these things to the maximum extent possible. Those Scouts all know who's pulling their weight and who isn't, and their "fairness meters" are more sensitive and more accurate than we sometimes give them credit for. They'll be closest to the "school solution" some of us are looking for...

KS

Sctmom;

As they say, one summer camp packs a year's worth of Scouting into a single week. A good one, as it appears your son went to, has an even bigger effect. Seems he's internalizing the values, which is what we want all of them to do...good on him!

Ed;

I'm with you on the vacation. My kids get out middle of June and go back late August. They stay busy; daughter's in a day camp five days a week she loves, and my son's doing Red Cross volunteer work 3 days a week, helping out more around the house, lotsa Scout stuff, and a tremendous amount of cavorting at the pool with his buddies. We're taking a trip to Hawaii next month so they'll have a real "vacation".

I suggested to him that the year-round schooling with more frequent, but shorter breaks was better to keep him from getting "rusty" at school skills and brain work. He looked at me like I was suggesting he be conscripted into the Taliban or something. I have to remind myself of the unrepentant glee I felt as a youth when school was out for the summer, and the dread with which I viewed the "back to school" ads in the paper. Up to a point, I gotta let him be a knucklehead while he still can be without penalty. I'll tell you, having a boy on the cusp of adolescence around the house is a good thing, on two counts anyway. One, it forces me to remember what it was like to be 12. Two, it deflects a fair amount of my wife's housekeeping scrutiny away from me and over to him...

KS

Just a couple questions, I guess rhetorical:

- why did they need a wagon (and I presume you mean one of those "radio flyer" type wagons we used to pull our kids around in) to haul the stuff in for cooking requirements? All the 2C and 1C cooking requirements can be met with foods easily cooked over a fire or with a small backpacking stove...

- if the menu plan required dutch ovens, griddles, lots of bottled gas, whatever, why didn't they plan it for an overnighter that wasn't a backpacker?

Anyway, water over the dam...without complete information, I think it would be a noble thing if the adults who thought the wagon was needed in the first place stepped up and made this right...

$.02

KS

FScouter;

You bet, and another little known (perhaps) fact: businesses aren't supposed to use the flag in an ad for a commerical product. How many July 4th newspaper ads for car dealers, furniture stores, restaurants, you name it, have you seen with flags in them? Too many to count, right?

A humorous aside...comedian Drew Carey was just over here for a USO show, and he said that right now, poor driving manners in the U.S. are excused if you're flying a U.S. flag from your car -- the more flags, the worse driving behavior you can get away with...

KS

Hikingdad:

Welcome to the forum; hope you get as much enjoyment, advice, and information from it as I do.

With regard to your question, there is no published national BSA standard regarding attendance credit. In fact, that's one of those areas that is largely subjective. The very literal among us (and you'll learn very soon who they are) will tell you that "active" means registered, and nothing more.

My personal recommendation, if you want a standard based on your troop customs and expectations, is to have your PLC determine what's "reasonable" for active-participation consideration (such as 75% of troop meetings and 50% of outings/fund raisers, or something like that). Then, ensure the PLC-determined guidelines are part of your Scoutmaster conferences with every Scout. I think that does two things for you. One, the Scouts are determining themselves what their troop standards will be. And two, there's no misunderstandings when a Scout is nearing BOR time, and has been late to every troop meeting and attends no troop outings, as an example.

Brace yourself; there have been other similar discussions along these lines, and there is much divergent opinion.

KS

Can anyone give me advice on whether or not to form a Venture patrol within the Troop? We've got 27 registered total, 7 of them Scouts of Venture age, with a couple more on their way in this summer.

As you might expect, the older Scouts accept the mantle of troop leadership and mentoring the younger Scouts, and for the most part do an excellent job at it. They are, however, interested in higher-level activities the younger Scouts can't do...what Venturing was designed for, right?

Well, the literature I can get my hands on here is rather vague on the subject...talks about registering them in a Venture crew (none within easy commute and the community's too small to start one here I think), or there's an organization chart that shows a Venture patrol within a troop, but little discussion about it.

Do Scouts in a Venture patrol remain in their permanent Scout patrol for bookkeeping, leadership, and accountability purposes? Do they elect a Venture "patrol leader"? Are Venture patrol activities vetted through the PLC or are they deliberated and approved separately? Do they participate in troop activities in their permanent patrols or the Venture patrol? Is it more important the Venture ASM be experienced, or closer to their age to relate better to them? To the extent that Venture patrol activities consume troop resources, should those Venture Scouts underwrite those activities themselves, or should troop consumables (including $$) be provided for them?

I'd like to do this if it's the right thing for us, but I want to do it the right way, too. I welcome any advice from those who've already done it...

thanks in advance;

KS

My hunch is that Scouts salute in the first place so that there's a standardized place for their hands during these ceremonies...lacking that, they might be in their pockets, noses, ears, mouths, etc.

If any of us are pretending we're not preparing our boys to serve their country, many of them in military uniform, we're deluding ourselves. You've all seen the statistics that show Scouts are over-represented at military service academies, in the FBI, and the astronaut corps, among others...that's no accident. While we're at it, I don't think any Scouter anywhere has to prove his patriotism or support of our country and its institutions -- their status proves that.

Amen to following the book -- I'd rather not confuse them. While we're on the subject of flag etiquette, though, one thing that's rubbed my fur the wrong way is the proliferation of "flag as clothing" fashion since 9-11. I know people are trying to show their patriotism, but this is improper, and in my opinion, a more important flag etiquette issue than whether or not to salute during the Pledge...who's with me on this?

Nothing concerning flag etiquette has ever been an issue for us. Our CO is a VFW post, our Scouts are from active, former, or retired military families, and our "giant voice" base-wide speaker system plays both national anthems (Korea & U.S.) at 5:30 each day -- everyone stops and pays respect.

In case you were wondering, we deliberately soft-pedal any military influence over the troop program. For example, I don't permit mixing camo with the uniform, I discourage leaders from participating in troop activities in military uniforms, don't engage in "shop talk" at Scout functions, and so on. We take advantage of the diversity and opportunities available to our Scouts because we're on a military base, but we keep it "Scouting", not "Junior ROTC". After all, the last thing I want over here is for any of those critters to be mistaken for combatants...

OGE, you're on the money with the Monty Python quote, in my opinion! Any troop that is grappling with "salute during the Pledge" as an issue should count their blessings. We have to cancel this week's troop meeting because of a base-wide combat exercise...not looking for pity, since we volunteered to be here, just suggesting these things be put in proper perspective.

Thanks as always for an opportunity to share thoughts with all of you -- this forum is truly a wonderful thing...

KS

Interesting thread; I had completely forgotten about that Star Trek episode until you reminded me of it.

One man's vote: I don't think we need an Etiquette MB; what's the standard to use in order to devise the requirements?, and I think there's enough character-content in the program that if it's presented, it will either sink in or it won't...and if it won't from the program content, it won't from a MB either. Moreover, if there is to be an Etiquette MB, and it's not Eagle-required, how many takers will you get?

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about poor manners at age 11...at age 18, another matter. This stuff is internalized in small amounts over a long period of time, like swallowing saliva. Here's a case in point. My troop when I was a Scout had three older Scouts, all brothers, whose dad was the SM. My dad died when I was four years old. My primary example of how a dad interacts with adolescent boys was my SM and his sons. It wasn't a conscious or deliberate study on my part back then, and certainly wasn't my SM's intent to show a fatherless boy how a father interacts with his sons, but that was the unintended result.

I think if you could fast-forward 10 or 15 years in your Scouts' lives, you'd see that other skills crept into their "tool boxes" unwittingly, including courteous behavior (if we model it consistently...)

KS

I don't know you, your dad, or your troop, and I have no idea what part of the story, if any, you may be leaving out, so I'm not really in a position to advise you on how to handle your problem specifically. However, as a Scoutmaster and a father of a Scout in the troop, and someone who's coached youth sports in the past too, I think I can talk to the situation in general terms.

Others have said on this thread that your dad may be re-living his childhood through you. Whether that's true in your case or not, it's a very common thing, and not unhealthy as long as we don't get carried away. Please remember, parents are carrying the scar tissue of experience and in some cases missed/lost/squandered opportunities -- they (perhaps your dad, too) only want you to avoid mistakes they made in their youth...and we all made them!

All parents compel their children to do things, eat things, wear clothes, kiss Grandma, go to church, and so on, even if some or all of those things are "undesirable" at the time. Unless a parent crosses that line that calls for intervention by the authorities (and I assume your dad hasn't crossed that line), your dad's pressure on you might be chalked up to nothing more than a parenting technique and concern for your future. Those techniques and concerns can manifest themselves in many ways and in many different activities -- consider yourself lucky he's not a fan of the ballet!

All kidding aside, I quit Scouts well before earning Eagle rank, and well before my 18th birthday. When I consider what I missed out on, in terms of the experiences, the adventures, the friends, the leadership, the personal growth, by leaving Scouting as early as I did, I feel a deep sense of regret...it may be what your dad feels, and he may want to make sure you don't feel the same thing when you get older. When Scouts turn 18 and can no longer be Scouts, some remain with the movement as adult volunteers, some walk away and put it behind them, and some come back after they have children of their own. At that time, that will certainly be your choice.

How many Scouts are active in your troop? If there's at least one other, why does he stay in Scouting? Why do the others stay? What do they like about it? There's something that keeps them coming back. Again, I don't know you, but have you considered that you may be seeing your troop through an overly negative lens? Can you name five, three, or even one thing that you like about your Scouting experiences, to go along with what you don't like? If so, you're not too different from most Scouts -- they like eating, but not washing dishes; the game, but not the cleanup; swimming, but not the shower; observing nature, but not writing the report.

You say your friends left the troop? Last time I checked, nobody's limited to a certain number of friends. We're at an overseas military base, and half our Scouts move away every summer. What do the rest of them do? Welcome the Scouts who transferred in, and make new friends. That may sound easy to say and difficult to do, but give it a try -- countless thousands of Scouts are doing that right now all over the world, including my critters right here.

I hope you and your dad can meet each other somewhere close to halfway. I can't remember who said it, but someone famous once said: "When I was a teenager, my father was one of the stupidest people I knew. But, I was amazed that the older I got, the smarter he got." Food for thought; hang in there and good luck to you!

I urge any leader or parent with a "reluctant" swimmer to discuss private swimming lessons with the Scout's parents/guardian. Here's why. In my experience, Scouts who refuse to attempt the swim requirements do not do so because they don't want to pass the tests or advance -- it's because they're petrified of failing in front of their friends.

Let's face it, we usually do these things in group settings with lots of witnesses. Couple that with the fact that most Scouts who are at this point in Scouting are 10 or 11 years old and already feel inferior to older more experienced Scouts, and it's only natural that they'll shy away from the tests if they're not strong swimmers. Think about it: why would a boy join Scouting, knowing it has an outdoors emphasis, and enthusiastically participate in everything...except the swimming?

The 2C and 1C swim tests are not difficult, and with a little private instruction, without the pressure and the onlookers, I think almost any boy can successfully pass them. Good luck.

I agree, the SM conference is the SM's responsibility unless he can't do it for some reason. That being said, I don't necessarily agree with the BSA language that says "...this is truly the opportunity to get to know the Scout...". In my experience, you get to know the Scouts by participating in activities, campouts, hikes, outings, PLCs, and troop meetings -- it's at the SM conference that you show the Scout you HAVE gotten to know him over the last however-many months.

This thread does point out a bit of a dilemma, though. I consider part of my responsibility to prepare ASMs to be SMs, including the admin/council and committee relations/training pieces. Is it optimal if his first SM conference is after he's an SM? Let him cut his teeth on some new Scout or Tenderfoot conferences, and go from there...and that's just one example. I realize this isn't prohibited, but it doesn't seem to be encouraged, either.

KS

My troop didn't want to wear the "dorky" BSA hats, either. Too high on the head, snap back, no curved bill, etc. I couldn't let them wear sports/FUBU caps in uniform, so I told the PLC to design a hat they WOULD wear, and that will be the troop hat. They did, it's "cool", and as a measure of it's acceptability, I've seen Scouts in the troop wearing the hat when not in uniform and out in public. One of the best things we ever did!

Any of you interested in a custom design, troop cap, for $10 each (if you order 50 or more), let me know and I can get them for you. We'll work out the particulars separately.

KS

Check the current BSA insignia guide for the particulars on name tags if you plan to wear them with the uniform.

Perhaps I'm insensitive to the subject since abductions are virtually unheard of where I am, but if Scouts have completed YP training, they shouldn't fall for the "Hey Tom" ploy from someone who saw their name tag. At any rate, if they're in class A's, it's a Scout function, and there's 2-deep leadership to keep things "honest".

I now, in retrospect, wish we had name tags for all our Scouts. I have several who are volunteering through the Red Cross this summer at various offices on our Air Force Base, and a BSA name tag would not only identify them but promote the program...

KS

Akwatek is indeed what the Army uses for it's latest PT uniform shirts. I did check out the wickers.com site, and the prices knocked me over! I can buy the Army Akwatek shirts for $6.90 short sleeve and $8.95 long sleeve -- a far cry from the 20-25 dollar range at the wickers site. I certainly wouldn't want my Scouts running around in a grey Army t-shirt as an activity uniform, but the point is that stuff shouldn't be that expensive!

Anybody seen that stuff cheaper anywhere else? We're getting our cotton activity t-shirts for $6 each now, with the silk screening...

KS

I've been wearing a military beret for 26 years now, and it's purely decorative/ceremonial -- no practical value in the field whatsoever.

I'm with the many who would like to see two things in the BSA catalog:

1). A real inclement weather jacket, similar to the Columbia-type parkas with technical features, zip-out liners, etc. The jac-shirt and windbreaker just don't cut it.

2). An official pair of pants with real roomy cargo pockets (many), a ripstop blend material that will dry easily and wear well, gathers at the cuffs to keep critters out, reinforced seat/knees, and convertible/zip-off legs. If it's functional and well-designed, cost won't be an issue...

my $.02

KS

Chippewa 29:

As Denzel Washington's character said in "Remember The Titans", your troop committee is "overcooking your grits". They have no more business vetoing your Scouts' shirt design than the Scouts would if they tried to tell the CC what time his meeting should start.

Here's an opposite example. Most Scouts in my troop wanted nothing to do with the official BSA hat -- in a word, too dorky. But, I couldn't let them wear sports/FUBU/etc. caps in uniform, so after conferring with the SPL, he put it out to the PLC: "If you don't like the BSA hat, design one you DO like, and that will be the troop hat, and the only one you can wear in uniform, BTW". They did, it's fabulous (and cool enough that they even wear it when they're NOT in their Scout uniforms), and the main point, the committee said "Marvelous, here's a check" (troop buys the first cap for the Scouts). I think that's where you oughta be with the roles/missions thing.

On your former SM, not knowing him, he may be a conniver or have the least amount of situational awareness of any living human, or something in between. Either way, he needs to back up and regroup. I had a similar situation when I was a Cubmaster. The former CM wouldn't "go away", if you know what I mean. The committee had to give him a heave-ho. Very awkward, but turned out okay in the end...good luck.

KS

OGE;

Off topic, but I gotta challenge you on "best Boy Scout Camp ever". I'm sure yours is right up there, but nothing can compare with Camp Miakonda, owned and lovingly maintained by the Council in Toledo, Ohio. On land originally donated by a turn of the century industrialist, Camp Miakonda boasts what was the largest swimming pool in the U.S. -- may still be for all I know. A parade ground at least the size of a football field was the scene of endless flashlight tag games, rolling sylvan woodlands, a large natural lake, rustic cabins, a tradin' post area that looks like a fontier town, and more. Many of the cabins and other buildings date to the depression era and were WPA projects -- workmanship and materials unmatched by anything today.

I may have an overly romanticized memory of this place from my Scout days, but when I compare it with others I've seen as an adult, it is really special. I had an opportunity to visit when my nephew went to Webelos resident camp a few years ago, and all the memories returned...

KS

OK, I just got the package from District the other day. Our units are getting 34%, no prize option (fine with me). We need to turn in our commitment not later than August 3rd. Our choices are:

-28 oz carmel corn

-24 oz chocolate carmel corn

-12 oz carmel corn

-24 pack variety microwave

-15 pack butter microwave

-15pack butter light microwave

All you old popcorn kernels out there; which of these are popular and which are not? When we turn in our commitment, we need to give our product mix, too, and I don't want us stuck with a dog, although I do want to offer some variety.

Our committee voted last night to commit to just $1500 worth, which will net us about $500 when it's all sold. I would have gone for a higher commitment, but last year was the first for popcorn in our district, and this year will be the first for our troop, so we have no idea how well it will sell...

KS