koolaidman

Thanks for posting that link to the whole survey results, AZMike. I never knew it existed.

 

I read the whole thing and what a mish mash of numbers. Predicting what will happen based on these numbers is like predicting the Final Four. It's a Rorschach test, you can find anything you want in there. What struck me was that the parents and the scouts are fine with some sort of change and the scouters are not. Something about knowing your customers applies here. Maybe I picked up on that because I'm the one in my troop always defending the notion that the scouts do know the right thing to do and the adults need to back off and let them lead. The other surprise is that it's as close as it is. Before this whole thing came up I figured maybe 20% of members wanted a change.

 

I'm not so sure this thing is going to pass but I also know the genie is out of the bottle. If I predict anything it's that national will lose control of the situation. If it passes, those that don't like gay scouts will drive them out. If it fails, those that don't mind gays will be more vocal about it and turn a blind eye to the rules.

Still cannot access the open discussion forum. ALl I see are the two sub-forums.

Back from meeting. Much to the adults surprise, the boy comes in with printed notes and directions for the boys for his game. (Silver Dollar Hunt from Troop Program Resources). He has one compass and has to ask around for quarters. We let those with phones break them out for the game only so they could use the compass apps. He had his partner and a buddy set up the "silver dollars" (quarters) outside while he explained the game to the patrol. Only one quarter was lost. We (adults) let them play their game, then gave pointers on walking a straight line after taking a bearing then we (adults) explained estimating the height of a tree since we knew none had experience with that before. The boys were able to learn multiple lessons (adults too) and all had a good time. SM was to talk with the PL to let him know its always a good idea for him to have an Ace up his sleeve. We were able to walk away feeling pretty good about the mini chaos that was our second boy-led meeting. I know the chaos is more in our adults heads than anywhere else. It was a good meeting.

Thank you to everyone who chimed in. If anyone has additional comments they are still appreciated.

You do have a difficult challenge with a small troop of boys 13 and under. For perspective, consider how BSA has structured boy scouting for an age range of 10 to 17. Boys join at 10 or 11, wanting to have fun. They first learn to be led. Then they learn to be active participants, followed by taking on continued increasing responsibility for tasks within their patrol and troop. Then eventually, leading others. By the time they are ready to lead others, they have observed other boys leading, and have an idea what they need to do. In a new troop where all the scouts are young, some of them have to skip the steps of being led, of the gradual assumption of increasing responsibility, and are immediately in the position where they are given responsibility for which they are not yet ready. And without the benefit of observing an older boy leading.

 

Boys prior to puberty live in the moment. They typically dont associate their lack of preparation during the week with a failed meeting the next Monday night. By Tuesday they have forgotten what they need to do. A reminder call on Wednesday may result in sending out a mass text as you saw, but may not result in any of the boys spending more than a minute or two on any preparation. Next Monday is an eternity. You may need to have each of the SM/ASM meet one on one with the various position holders and give hands-on assistance for several months. For example, the SM spend an hour with the PL one night a week to put the meeting plan together, and sit with him while he calls whomever is on the program (example: calling someone on the city council to come to a future troop meeting to talk). An ASM or committee member meet with the scribe the night after the troop meeting to be there while he completes the meeting minutes and publishes them. Note that these are all things that can be accomplished with a conversation with an older scout, but requires much more one-on-one with a younger scout until he starts to achieve the initiative on his own.

 

Let me toss out another idea: forget about advancement for the next couple of years. Boys joined a troop at 10 or 11 for fun and excitement. In their imaginations, they want to be able to live in the woods by themselves (read the book "My Side of the Mountain"). A boy wants to find a buried treasure, live off the land, slay a dragon, be a hero. Help them Focus on outdoor skills,constantly reviewing and building on them incrementally through fun games, competitions, and outings. Don't make orienteering an activity to meet a requirement, make it a search for a long lost pirate's treasure. And the next month, a search for a crashed military plane with soldiers that need the aid of boy scouts that know first aid.

 

 

One additional comment - you asked for thoughts on a meeting plan where sewing was a backup plan, because it would be an unpleasant activity resulting from lack of planning. My thought is that sewing on a patch shouldn't be presented a punishment. I don't think it is even a good group activity. rather, I think it is an opportunity for one-on-one time with a scout during a weekend camp out. It's a kind of thing where you can say to a scout "I see you dont have your 2nd class patch on your shirt. How about if I help you?" Then go sit under an oak tree, show him how to get started, let him try, perhaps take turns for a while, and talk about whatever comes up. You would be amazed at what a boy will talk about while having an informal chat in a one-on-one situation while distracted by something else like sewing on a patch.

 

Good Luck; it will take a while, you will be frustrated for a while; keep in mind how you want things 3 or 4 years from now, because it will take that long.

Our troop is less than a year old. We've been meeting since September. The boys have been advancing slowly as they start to figure out the they are responsible for their advancement and not the adults. We are finally transitioning to boy led meetings. The first one we had scheduled was a two weeks ago. The SPL/PL was not prepared' date=' however our SM had to do a summer camp presentation so we did that instead. The SPL/PL was prepared for the last meeting we had, and things went pretty well. For our next meeting, I am 80% confident the boy who is supposed to do the activity/skills introduction will not be prepared. I don't want to "reward" a scout being unprepared for his meeting by having ad-hoc games or an engaging adult-led backup plan, however I don't really want the other scouts to have an unproductive meeting either. So my "plan B" is "uniform maintenance". If the boy leader is unprepared, then everyone will sit down and learn to sew on a patch and how to make a small sewing kit for camping. I think it kills two birds: 1. There should be no excuse for missing patches on uniforms. 2. It should be unpleasant enough for the boys to see that we won't have a fun program if they don't prepare. I'd like to hear what you guys think, as I feel a little guilty of violating the patrol method in even thinking of a plan B, but the boys are still new to taking on the responsibilities of boy-led. What do you think? [/quote']

 

You are in a tough place. I agree that the boys need to run the show and that they should not be bailed-out, but your tough place is that you have a small, new troop and you risk developing apathy early and that is no good either.

 

If you have not had a troop leader training session that might help. Use the "teach a man to fish" model:

 

- Show them the tools they have at their disposal like Troop Program Features (vols1-3) or Troop Program Resources

http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33110_WEB.pdf, http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33588.pdf

 

- Walk the SPL through how to run a PLC, how to organize an agenda, how to fill out a meeting planning sheet, etc.

 

- Advise them to have primary, seconday and tertiary plans in case something (or someone) falls through.

 

Not sure if you trained him up and gave him the tools to do his job, but if you have then the next step is a milestone check or perhaps a refresher. Same goes for the rest of the PLC. They need to take ownership but they need the skills to succeed first. Once this is established that SPL will set the tone for future leaders.‎

forgot to add:

We've showed them Troop Program Features. We have hard copies at our meeting site and told them where to get it online.

We've walked the SPL how to run a PLC, how to fill out a meeting plan, etc.

Have not advised them to have a secondary plan. We will advise the PL that he needs to advise his appointees/volunteers to have their own backup plans in case things go wrong (weather, materials etc), and will also advise PL to have his own plan in case others aren't able to come through.

Update for all concerned: PL blasted a text out to his patrol yesterday reminding those running the show that they need to be prepared. SM had an incidental meeting with the boy I'm concerned about yesterday and brought up tonight's meeting.

We'll see how it goes. Not certain if we'll come to a fork in the road tonight, but if we do, we'll take it

Our troop is less than a year old. We've been meeting since September. The boys have been advancing slowly as they start to figure out the they are responsible for their advancement and not the adults. We are finally transitioning to boy led meetings. The first one we had scheduled was a two weeks ago. The SPL/PL was not prepared' date=' however our SM had to do a summer camp presentation so we did that instead. The SPL/PL was prepared for the last meeting we had, and things went pretty well. For our next meeting, I am 80% confident the boy who is supposed to do the activity/skills introduction will not be prepared. I don't want to "reward" a scout being unprepared for his meeting by having ad-hoc games or an engaging adult-led backup plan, however I don't really want the other scouts to have an unproductive meeting either. So my "plan B" is "uniform maintenance". If the boy leader is unprepared, then everyone will sit down and learn to sew on a patch and how to make a small sewing kit for camping. I think it kills two birds: 1. There should be no excuse for missing patches on uniforms. 2. It should be unpleasant enough for the boys to see that we won't have a fun program if they don't prepare. I'd like to hear what you guys think, as I feel a little guilty of violating the patrol method in even thinking of a plan B, but the boys are still new to taking on the responsibilities of boy-led. What do you think? [/quote']

 

You are in a tough place. I agree that the boys need to run the show and that they should not be bailed-out, but your tough place is that you have a small, new troop and you risk developing apathy early and that is no good either.

 

If you have not had a troop leader training session that might help. Use the "teach a man to fish" model:

 

- Show them the tools they have at their disposal like Troop Program Features (vols1-3) or Troop Program Resources

http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33110_WEB.pdf, http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33588.pdf

 

- Walk the SPL through how to run a PLC, how to organize an agenda, how to fill out a meeting planning sheet, etc.

 

- Advise them to have primary, seconday and tertiary plans in case something (or someone) falls through.

 

Not sure if you trained him up and gave him the tools to do his job, but if you have then the next step is a milestone check or perhaps a refresher. Same goes for the rest of the PLC. They need to take ownership but they need the skills to succeed first. Once this is established that SPL will set the tone for future leaders.‎

We are indeed guilty of not properly training up the boys. Basically that is the only reason I would even think of having a backup plan in place.

Yeah, the ability to start a thread was not allowed by anyone but Scouter Terry the admin, for about 1.5 months.. That is an improvement. But the navigation is still pretty bad, along with going into a thread and being told there is only 1 page when there are 5, or only 3 pages when there are 4.. I hope we get back to normal soon.. Don't know about the search either.. Yesterday I wanted some new ideas for quick tin foil desserts, but since it has been a past topic I just wanted to search out the old threads.. Tinfoil or Tin foil brought up nothing..

The troop is 10 boys in one patrol. We started with 6 in September. We expect 2 more at the end of May.

 

The SPL/PL is using the meeting plan in the SM handbook and utilizing Troop Program Features and Troop Program Resources.

 

Prior to now, we had adult leader led instruction, games, whatever during the meetings. Now with the meeting plan different boys lead different parts of meetings with activities the PLC determined.

 

Boy A will have pre-meeting game/activity ready to go, Boy B&C will be color guard for flag ceremony, Boy D teaches the skill, Boy D runs the game etc....

The I'm concerned about is the patrol scribe, who has trouble remembering to write things down (despite reminders).

He forgets to take attendance (despite reminders) and his mind wanders during the meetings. He's really the main reason we've realized we need to do better POR counseling and that it wouldn't be cool to tell him what a terrible job he's been doing if we haven't coached him properly.

 

Overall picture: 3 Second Class, 3 Tenderfoot, 4 Scouts. We have an SPL/PL, APL, Scribe and QM. We have 2 ASMs

 

 

 

 

 

The troop is 10 boys in one patrol. We started with 6 in September. We expect 2 more at the end of May.

The SPL/PL is using the meeting plan in the SM handbook and utilizing Troop Program Features and Troop Program Resources.

Prior to now, we had adult leader led instruction, games, whatever during the meetings. Now with the meeting plan different boys lead different parts of meetings with activities the PLC determined.

Boy A will have pre-meeting game/activity ready to go, Boy B&C will be color guard for flag ceremony, Boy D teaches the skill, Boy D runs the game etc....

The I'm concerned about is the patrol scribe, who has trouble remembering to write things down (despite reminders).

He forgets to take attendance (despite reminders) and his mind wanders during the meetings. He's really the main reason we've realized we need to do better POR counseling and that it wouldn't be cool to tell him what a terrible job he's been doing if we haven't coached him properly.

Overall picture: 3 Second Class, 3 Tenderfoot, 4 Scouts. We have an SPL/PL, APL, Scribe and QM. We have 2 ASMs

Additional info: I am ASM. Our oldest scout is 13, all the others are 10-12. Highest rank is Second Class. A neighboring troop provided an ILST class for them a couple of months ago. The original scouts we had did not have the skills as represented by their rank. The troop started up 5 months earlier than initially anticipated. There was quite a bit of chaos in ascertaining exactly what the boys accomplished as they never returned to their other troop after summer camp. Old troop held the advancement records for ransom (balances on scout account. Since I was the only neutral party I had to actually go exchange a check for the troopmaster records). I've been trained the entire time. SM just finished SMS, he's been IOLS since day one. We have one scout that will most likely make First Class before May is out. Another one is somewhat likely, yet another would really have to work to get there by May. We are almost starting from scratch.

Sentinel: Your advice is about what I expected to hear. We acknowledge exactly where we are and where we are trying to be. We've been directing the boys most of the time and we're in process of handing over the reins. SM and I have agreed that patrol method and POR counseling needs to be our focus for the upcoming year.

So at this juncture, with the meeting on Monday (I know timing is bad, but that really is a sunk cost now), it would be prudent for the SM to call the SPL/PL to see if he's checked up on the responsible boys to make sure they are ready for the meeting. We will do that.

Assuming the SM has done the requisite check up during the week and regardless if the SPL does his, if no one is prepared for his section of the meeting how would you handle? How do you teach both the boys the lesson? The SPL has the responsibility to do the checking up and the boy has the responsibility for program content. What's the best way to make the SPL realize that he needs a backup plan without making him feel at fault AND make the boy realize his responsibility at the same time? During the meeting and the after meeting counsel?

Our troop is less than a year old. We've been meeting since September. The boys have been advancing slowly as they start to figure out the they are responsible for their advancement and not the adults.

We are finally transitioning to boy led meetings. The first one we had scheduled was a two weeks ago. The SPL/PL was not prepared, however our SM had to do a summer camp presentation so we did that instead.

The SPL/PL was prepared for the last meeting we had, and things went pretty well. For our next meeting, I am 80% confident the boy who is supposed to do the activity/skills introduction will not be prepared.

I don't want to "reward" a scout being unprepared for his meeting by having ad-hoc games or an engaging adult-led backup plan, however I don't really want the other scouts to have an unproductive meeting either.

So my "plan B" is "uniform maintenance". If the boy leader is unprepared, then everyone will sit down and learn to sew on a patch and how to make a small sewing kit for camping. I think it kills two birds: 1. There should be no excuse for missing patches on uniforms. 2. It should be unpleasant enough for the boys to see that we won't have a fun program if they don't prepare.

I'd like to hear what you guys think, as I feel a little guilty of violating the patrol method in even thinking of a plan B, but the boys are still new to taking on the responsibilities of boy-led.

What do you think?

Guy lines are mentioned in the instructions. Those would certainly help in keeping it from tipping over.

Those big trips are not uncommon in my area. We are a small sized new troop, so I hope we will be dealing with those kind of requests later rather than sooner. If a big trip request does come up, I do plan on asking "What activities do they have there, that we can't do closer?" A good lesson in being thrifty. HA is one thing, but driving from SE TX to Colorado for a normal summer camp seems a bit much.

Handled by each patrol. The boys take turns serving as patrol grubmaster. The PL works together during their patrol meetings to come up with a menu then expand that into a shopping list. We have a menu planning worksheet the patrols can use which also includes a column for the gear they will need, but the more experienced patrols/Scouts often forgo the form. Best practice is for everyone ot give th GM $20 BEFORE he goes to the store. The GM does the shopping and any repackaging or prep work needed. He is also responsible for food safety, so he packs perishables in a cooler or freezing and wrapping them, etc., depending on the type of campout.

 

If the patrol all kicked in the $20 to the GM before hand, he will have correct change for everyone based on the actual cost of food. Depending on the number of meals, campout food actually runs in the $12-$15 range. Contributiing $20 ensures the GM has enough money and makes making change easier. If the GM failed to collect the money in advance, it is his responsibility to collect his money on the backend. In which case, his parents probably fronted the money and are out if someone doesn't pay their share. And yes, we rely on the parents to help their son with this -- taking him shopping, etc.

From the Guide to Safe Scouting:

 

 

The online version of the Guide to Safe Scouting is updated quarterly.

Go to

http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS.aspx.

 

VI. Chemical Fuels and Equipment

 

Purpose

This policy directs Boy Scouts of America members how to safely store, handle, and use chemical fuels and equipment. Safety and environmental awareness concerns have persuaded many campers to move away from traditional outdoor campfires in favor of chemical-fueled equipment used for cooking, heating, and lighting. Be aware that chemical fuels and equipment create very different hazards than traditional wood, charcoal, and other solid fuels; this policy defines how to address those hazards.

 

Before any chemical fuels or chemical-fueled equipment is used, an adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment, including regulatory requirements, should resolve any hazards not specifically addressed within this policy.

 

Definitions

Chemical fuelsâ€â€Liquid, gaseous, or gelled fuels.

 

Approved chemical-fueled equipmentâ€â€Commercially manufactured equipment, including stoves, grills, burners, heaters, and lanterns that are designed to be used with chemical fuels.

 

Prohibited chemical-fueled equipmentâ€â€Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can†stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.

 

Recommended chemical fuels White gas (Coleman fuel); kerosene; liquefied petroleum gas fuels, including propane, butane, and isobutane; vegetable oil fuels; biodiesel fuel; and commercially prepared gelled-alcohol fuel in original containers.

 

Chemical fuels not recommended Unleaded gasoline; liquid alcohol fuels, including isopropyl alcohol, denatured ethyl alcohol, and ethanol; and other flammable chemicals that are not in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for chemical-fueled equipment.

 

Storing, Handling, and Using Chemical Fuels and Equipment

An adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment should always supervise youths involved in the storage, handling, and use of chemical fuels and equipment.

 

Operate and maintain chemical-fueled equipment according to the manufacturer’s instructions and in facilities or areas only where and when permitted.

 

Using liquid fuels for starting any type of fireâ€â€including lighting damp wood, charcoal, and ceremonial campfires or displaysâ€â€is prohibited.

 

No flames in tents. This includes burning any solid, liquid, gel, or gas fuelâ€â€including tents or teepees that feature or support stoves or fires; and any chemical-fueled equipment or catalytic heaters.

 

Store chemical fuels in their original containers or in containers designed for immediate use. Securely store any spare fuel away from sources of ignition, buildings, and tents.

 

During transport and storage, properly secure chemical fuel containers in an upright, vertical position.

 

 

 

So... there is nothing in the Guide to Safe Scouting that says liquid fuels are not permitted. Most people think of white gas when they think of liquid fuels. Our troop uses propane and I can think of few reasons that liquid fuels would be a better choice. Sure, if you have a high adventure patrol and they're going to Philmont, maybe something like an MSR stove would make sense. However... I'll recount a brief story that happened to me a few weeks ago. I've been using liquid fuel stoves since I was a Scout. I've got literally decades of experience in camping and using these stoves. We were working as a troop on some 1st & 2nd class rank requirements and were going over the stoves. In keeping with the "adult should supervise" part, I was right there. I broke out the MSR stove and showed the boys how it worked. They were all to get familiar with it. The MSR stove requires that you pressurize the pump/container and prime the stove by allowing a little bit of liquid fuel to pool under the burner. You light it and it heats the stove and then you open the fuel line and off you go. I've done it hundreds of times. Uhhh... this time was different. I (not a boy, but me) bumped against the stove and the liquid fuel (white gas) that was pooled under the burner spilled on the table that we were using to demonstrate the stoves. Of course it was on fire and before I knew it, within seconds, half the table top was aflame. Oh $(#*$#%!!. Yeah, I know, what the heck were we doing this inside for? It was in a big rustic lodge where we were all doing cabin camping. All sorts of things went through my mind - none of them good. I got the stove outside and other leaders quickly extinguished the fire. I would have never, ever, in a million years thought this could have happened. I did a bunch of things wrong - doing this in the lodge, bumping the stove, etc. It could have ended badly. I know you're probably thinking, well, no kidding - don't do stuff like that indoors. Prepare your area. That could never happen to me. I got complacent and had visions of a really horrible outcome. So... while the BSA doesn't have specific rules against liquid fuel, carefully consider when you really need it and when you can use propane. We're in Illinois and propane works 99.9% of the time. I'll personally never use liquid fuel with Scouts again.

 

And, btw, perhaps the camp had a specific rule for reasons just like the one I describe above. Believe me, I feel pretty stupid. And was stupid. I share this story as an example of how bad things could have turned.

With a sheath knife.

Maybe if proper banning were in place while I was a scout it wouldn't have happened? (tongue firmly in cheek).

Still holding out hope that someone has stumbled on it

They could be helpful in recruiting mbc's for our troop.

Still holding out hope that someone has stumbled on it

From the Guide to Safe Scouting:

 

 

The online version of the Guide to Safe Scouting is updated quarterly.

Go to

http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS.aspx.

 

VI. Chemical Fuels and Equipment

 

Purpose

This policy directs Boy Scouts of America members how to safely store, handle, and use chemical fuels and equipment. Safety and environmental awareness concerns have persuaded many campers to move away from traditional outdoor campfires in favor of chemical-fueled equipment used for cooking, heating, and lighting. Be aware that chemical fuels and equipment create very different hazards than traditional wood, charcoal, and other solid fuels; this policy defines how to address those hazards.

 

Before any chemical fuels or chemical-fueled equipment is used, an adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment, including regulatory requirements, should resolve any hazards not specifically addressed within this policy.

 

Definitions

Chemical fuelsâ€â€Liquid, gaseous, or gelled fuels.

 

Approved chemical-fueled equipmentâ€â€Commercially manufactured equipment, including stoves, grills, burners, heaters, and lanterns that are designed to be used with chemical fuels.

 

Prohibited chemical-fueled equipmentâ€â€Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can†stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed.

 

Recommended chemical fuels White gas (Coleman fuel); kerosene; liquefied petroleum gas fuels, including propane, butane, and isobutane; vegetable oil fuels; biodiesel fuel; and commercially prepared gelled-alcohol fuel in original containers.

 

Chemical fuels not recommended Unleaded gasoline; liquid alcohol fuels, including isopropyl alcohol, denatured ethyl alcohol, and ethanol; and other flammable chemicals that are not in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for chemical-fueled equipment.

 

Storing, Handling, and Using Chemical Fuels and Equipment

An adult knowledgeable about chemical fuels and equipment should always supervise youths involved in the storage, handling, and use of chemical fuels and equipment.

 

Operate and maintain chemical-fueled equipment according to the manufacturer’s instructions and in facilities or areas only where and when permitted.

 

Using liquid fuels for starting any type of fireâ€â€including lighting damp wood, charcoal, and ceremonial campfires or displaysâ€â€is prohibited.

 

No flames in tents. This includes burning any solid, liquid, gel, or gas fuelâ€â€including tents or teepees that feature or support stoves or fires; and any chemical-fueled equipment or catalytic heaters.

 

Store chemical fuels in their original containers or in containers designed for immediate use. Securely store any spare fuel away from sources of ignition, buildings, and tents.

 

During transport and storage, properly secure chemical fuel containers in an upright, vertical position.

 

 

 

So... there is nothing in the Guide to Safe Scouting that says liquid fuels are not permitted. Most people think of white gas when they think of liquid fuels. Our troop uses propane and I can think of few reasons that liquid fuels would be a better choice. Sure, if you have a high adventure patrol and they're going to Philmont, maybe something like an MSR stove would make sense. However... I'll recount a brief story that happened to me a few weeks ago. I've been using liquid fuel stoves since I was a Scout. I've got literally decades of experience in camping and using these stoves. We were working as a troop on some 1st & 2nd class rank requirements and were going over the stoves. In keeping with the "adult should supervise" part, I was right there. I broke out the MSR stove and showed the boys how it worked. They were all to get familiar with it. The MSR stove requires that you pressurize the pump/container and prime the stove by allowing a little bit of liquid fuel to pool under the burner. You light it and it heats the stove and then you open the fuel line and off you go. I've done it hundreds of times. Uhhh... this time was different. I (not a boy, but me) bumped against the stove and the liquid fuel (white gas) that was pooled under the burner spilled on the table that we were using to demonstrate the stoves. Of course it was on fire and before I knew it, within seconds, half the table top was aflame. Oh $(#*$#%!!. Yeah, I know, what the heck were we doing this inside for? It was in a big rustic lodge where we were all doing cabin camping. All sorts of things went through my mind - none of them good. I got the stove outside and other leaders quickly extinguished the fire. I would have never, ever, in a million years thought this could have happened. I did a bunch of things wrong - doing this in the lodge, bumping the stove, etc. It could have ended badly. I know you're probably thinking, well, no kidding - don't do stuff like that indoors. Prepare your area. That could never happen to me. I got complacent and had visions of a really horrible outcome. So... while the BSA doesn't have specific rules against liquid fuel, carefully consider when you really need it and when you can use propane. We're in Illinois and propane works 99.9% of the time. I'll personally never use liquid fuel with Scouts again.

 

And, btw, perhaps the camp had a specific rule for reasons just like the one I describe above. Believe me, I feel pretty stupid. And was stupid. I share this story as an example of how bad things could have turned.

We've all done "stupid" acts before, but only the truly stupid folks don't learn from them...

Me? I'll never try to stab a pear while holding it with the other hand again....

I'm glad no one got hurt.

If he is paid up, registered and doesn't keep anyone else from attending, let him go. I've had issues with some cubs not participating in the past. I finally decided I didn't care about the times they were not there, as long as they had fun the times they were there.

I was googling items related to merit badge counselors and came across a Counselor Guide Fishing Merit Badge at: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/FishingCounselorGuide.kc.pdf

Does anyone know how to navigate to this counselor guide without google, starting at http://www.scouting.org?

Secondary question, does BSA have a similar counselor guide for other merit badges?

It would be nice if there was just one place you could go to on scouting.org to browse online publications.

Page 6 of the 2013 requirements books: "The rank requirements in this book are official as of January 1, 2013. If a Scout has started work toward a rank before that date using requirements that were current before January 1, 2013, he may complete that rank using the old requirements. Any progress toward a rank that is begun after January 1, 2012, must use the requirements as they are presented in this Boy Scout Requirement book."

For the Eagle required merit badges it is different though. On the inside cover of the 2013 Requirement Book:

"Starting Jan. 1, 2014, Cooking merit badge will Be Rquired for Eagle

Effective Jan. 1, 2014, the Cooking merit badge will be required to botain the Eagle Scout rank. Regardless of when a Scout earned the Life rank or began working toward Eagle, unless he fulfills all the rank requirements--with the exception of his board of review--before Jan. 1, 2014, he must earn the Cooking merit badge to become an Eagle Scout."

So you'd have to review each scouts sign off history to be technically correct for ranks.

For additional clarity of the IRS/scout account issue, I stumbled across this the other day: http://www.samhoustonbsa.org/my_files/unit_scout_accounts_-_national.pdf

 

It is an undated memo from national stating that allocation of fundraising proceeds to scout accounts based on units sold, or hours worked may be reportable income to the scout and may call into question the NFP status of the CO, Council and BSA.

Please don't take my word for it and read it yourself. It's not technical and it's only one page.

 

Bottom line recommendation from BSA if you wish to continue scout accounts (taken directly from the memo):

 

Units who wish to continue to offer “boy account†type plans need to

 

 

develop fund distribution plans that include criteria other than the sale of

 

 

items. These might include:

 

 

• Participation

 

 

• Leadership

 

 

• Scout spirit

 

 

• Advancement

 

 

 

Per Page 39 of the guide to Awards and Insignia (33066) section 2 found at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx :

Totin’ Chip, cloth, No. 8597; Boy Scout; worn as a temporary patch on right pocket; not to be worn on pocket flap.

Firem’n Chit, cloth, No. 8599; Boy Scout, worn as a temporary patch on right pocket; not to be worn on pocket flap.

For additional clarity of the IRS/scout account issue, I stumbled across this the other day: http://www.samhoustonbsa.org/my_files/unit_scout_accounts_-_national.pdf

It is an undated memo from national stating that allocation of fundraising proceeds to scout accounts based on units sold, or hours worked may be reportable income to the scout and may call into question the NFP status of the CO, Council and BSA.

Please don't take my word for it and read it yourself. It's not technical and it's only one page.

Bottom line recommendation from BSA if you wish to continue scout accounts (taken directly from the memo):

Units who wish to continue to offer “boy account†type plans need to

develop fund distribution plans that include criteria other than the sale of

items. These might include:

• Participation

• Leadership

• Scout spirit

• Advancement