koolaidman

When I have set up these o-courses, I've basically given the boys a topo map to a local forest preserve with a set of points marked on the map that they have to visit. They have to figure out where they currently are located on the map, orient, and then pick the best trails to reach the individual points. I normally have some sort of stake at each point with a quiz question, skill requirement or game token they have to collect to prove they were there. I use the gpsxchange.com website to get topos without trail markings. Anyway, while I think your idea makes for a great outing, I'm still not convinced it meets the spirit of the requirement for teaching outdoor skills. Maybe there is a local orienteering club who could give you some ideas for more challenging hikes.

My orienteering courses for FC generally include a couple of control points that the guys can not beeline to. They have to figure it on the map, then figure a way to get to the control point. I'm much more devilish when it comes to orienteering.

I've been thinking a little about food. It may be a lunch on the way into town, or a dinner thing if we want to watch the bats. One of the peculiar things about the downtown area are the tunnels (only open on weekdays). That's where most folks eat lunch. Finding a place to eat on a scout's lunch budget could prove difficult if your looking for something better than average fast food. Houston is definitely an aquired taste. Pack did you take the boat tour of the ship channel?

I've been thinking a little about food. It may be a lunch on the way into town, or a dinner thing if we want to watch the bats. One of the peculiar things about the downtown area are the tunnels (only open on weekdays). That's where most folks eat lunch. Finding a place to eat on a scout's lunch budget could prove difficult if your looking for something better than average fast food. Houston is definitely an aquired taste. Pack did you take the boat tour of the ship channel?

Think of it this way: once the boys complete this hike, would you be comfortable with them doing the same thing on their own in any other environment you all hike in throughout the year?

 

Personally, I know I can get lost using a map with street names ... I know how to "get found," and it usually relies on my ability to find north and orient the map. So there is some method to your madness.

I think the simplified overall objective to SC1 & 2 is to learn to read a map, take a walk and not get lost...

I do believe the boys enjoy a challenge and respect an achievement that is not otherwise easily obtained.

The suburban folks around here easily get lost or intimidated by our downtown area:

The streets are lined northeast-southwest and northwest-southeast and 99% of them are one way.

I get around it by knowing what street I came in off of the freeway on, and knowing what street leads to the freeway I need to leave on.

The rest I'll just fudge if I need to.

I grew up in an urban environment, but my kids have only lived in suburbia. In that context it is a good idea. Are the boys confident using the various mass transit systems ? Transferring from one to another ? Knowing how to act around the wino and bag lady that mutters to herself or talks crazy to you? Combining those elements might make it a more useful experience.

The Park-and-Ride busses don't run on the weekend. I can usually smell the winos before I see them. Once it starts to smell like the zoo, then you have an idea of what you're about to stumble upon...

Just spitballin' here and thinking if our guys would like to take their 5 mile hike in an urban environment.

Our downtown area consists of square blocks about half as long as normal city blocks. Normally 1 block = 1 building.

Our guys have/will have many opportunities for a 5 mile hike in nature every year, but I think it's also a good idea to learn how to navigate urban environments too.

If the PLC were to warm up to the idea of an urban hike, I'm concerned that using a map and compass may be "too easy" because of street names on the map.

Has anyone else here done a similar urban hike? Is my fear about the street names unfounded?

The overriding goal is for the boys to be able to look at a map, understand it and get from point "A" to point "B", so should I really care if it is "too easy"?

Looking at downtown Houston, it would be cool to start at Allen's Landing, meander through Discovery Green, Theater District, point out the library, City Hall, get on the jogging trails along Buffalo Bayou to wind up at the Waugh street bridge in time to watch the bats come out.

Disclaimer:

Yes, only if PLC's idea.

Yes, be prepared, plenty of water, sunscreen, food, etc

On a Saturday, minimum traffic (for those who don't live around Houston, there's not much traffic downtown on the weekends)

So my main question is the "too easy" one, and looking to hear of similar experiences of urban hikes.

I was googling al sorts of scout related topics and kept arriving to Scouter.com. Finally I just started reading all the posts while getting ready for my son to cross over to Boy Scouts. Eventually logged in and even occasionally join the discussion.

You may want to try the "Scout is Reverent" pamphlet. Item 34248 at scoutstuff.org

Pack,

If you have maps of Texas east of San Antonio, I'd be glad to take them off your hands.

Thanks for the replies. I recently had a parent who was willing to help drive a group of boys to summer camp (> 5hrs away). When I started asking about her insurance limits, etc... She said well maybe I won't. I understand that the BSA is trying to Cover their butt or covers yours but as complicated as everything else is in life all this training/paperwork just turns people off, myself included.

 

Then she probably doesn't have insurance and she should be in jail.

Consider it an effort to "be prepared". Same reason you pack a poncho during a drought. Help at all?

IMO Scoutrack works great and its cheap. The calendar email reminders are handy too. Like BD said, the non-adopters will age out.

 

You can provide incentive to use it though.

 

Starting in September, announce that you will no longer be ordering advancement items unless its been entered in Scouttrack. period. Then (and this is really important) offer to train everyone in the pack how to use it at two different times. They'll start coming on board pretty quick.

Give them a valid reason: You don't want to punish a scout because of an errant email, or one you just missed. You don't want to punish a scout because it takes too long to tally up a badge/loop order manually. Seems to me a much better chance to punish the scout using 3 different ways to communicate advancement.

IMO Scoutrack works great and its cheap. The calendar email reminders are handy too. Like BD said, the non-adopters will age out.

You can provide incentive to use it though.

Starting in September, announce that you will no longer be ordering advancement items unless its been entered in Scouttrack. period. Then (and this is really important) offer to train everyone in the pack how to use it at two different times. They'll start coming on board pretty quick.

Thanks for the info BD. I can't believe I didn't think of restaurant supply houses!

Still interested in hearing form others if they treat it as a patrol activity vs troop activity and how lightweight troops do it.

We are making an active effort to keep everything in packs and not require a trailer, even if we are going to plop 'n' drop sites.

We have quite a few troops around here that utilize the 3 tub method for doing KP. Warm soapy water + rinse + sanitizing solution.

It seems to end up being a troop activity with large 3 tub set ups. I'm somewhat familiar with it since I sued to wash dishes during college.

I don't ever remember doing that as a scout 25 years ago. I am open to change, but is the sanitizing solution really needed? (provided the dishes are actually washed properly)

Is there some edict I'm missing in the G2SS? I've read it, but don't proclaim to remember all of it. When did this all come about?

What is the preferred product to mix the sanitizing solution? How do the lightweight/low impact troops handle this?

bump for interest. I'd like to hear about it as well.

"but shouldn't every boy that wants to earn it be allowed the opportunity ?" -- your has the opportunity to participate in contingent troop activities, district and council activities. He also has the option of bringing up activities to the PLC.

" But what if no one else wanted to go ?" If the PLC or patrol schedules an activity that is not cancelled its still an BSA activity, right?

Having Scouter dad along does not make it under the auspices of the BSA. The PLC, patrol, district, council make it under the auspices of the BSA.

"Do I understand the requirements correctly ?"--I think you understand the math correctly. It is a difficult award. I think you understand "under the auspices of the BSA" but want to hear differently.

Why are you skipping ahead and worrying about the silver devices? Seems similar to worrying about Eagle palms at Tenderfoot.

Related thread: http://www.scouter.com/forum/camping-high-adventure/14552-national-camping-award

How is an individual scout account any different than the Camp Card program the BSA has been rolling out ? 1/2 of the money goes directly to each scout to pay for camp. http://www.stlbsa.org/programs/campcards/Documents/2013%20leader%20guide%20GSLAC%20StL.pdf

The Camp Card program is designed to help Scouts earn their way to summer resident camp, high adventure, or day camp. Units participating in this program will earn 50 percent commission ($2.50) for each $5 Camp Card they sell."

In Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method, the PATROL Leaders elect the SPL.

In Leadership Development's Troop Method, the TROOP elects the SPL.

In the Real Patrol Method, the PATROL Leaders always outnumber the SPL in the PATROL Leader's Council.

In the Troop Method the TROOP SPL's patronage positions, such as the TROOP ASPLs and the TROOP Guides, can vote against the Patrol Leaders.

Maybe the word "Troop" has been Program Neutered out of NYLT, like the Patrol Leaders were neutered out of the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-specific training?

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net/

 

Here's your chance to unload, Scouting Magazine just admonished us all that if our troop isn't working, it's because we aren't using the Patrol Method: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/06/24/how-to-keep-your-troop-out-of-the-death-spiral/

One more thing to add. Make sure you teach proper use of zippers! Usually there is a flap of material that runs the length of the zipper that is to prevent water from going through the zipper.

Teach your young scout to move that flap out of the way while zipping and to zip carefully. It's amazing how far a new scout can force that zipper over the flap. We had to learn the hard way that you have to teach these boys EVERYTHING sometimes. Had no choice but to cut the flap so a scout could close the rainfly (in a brand new tent's first outing ugh!).

Try this. It seems to be working for me:

Before you log in. Click on the last 24hrs button. Then save it as a bookmark. After I logged in, and went to several other posts, I was able to get to it via the bookmark/favorites link.

Check out alps mountaineering and sign up for their program at scoutdirect.com we have about 8 of their lynx-2 with the aluminum poles we bought during the Christmas sale and they work fine.

They have a vestibule and an entrance on each side. Their scout direct price is close to $100. You may want to invest in better stakes.

Koolaidman - "Participation (... in fundraising ...) can be a factor when allocating funds."

- Strictly per IRS, NO.

- For our small groups, we're probably under the radar.

- Sometimes people do things because it's been done that way for years. And that's the only reason why you CAN do it.

 

sailingpj - "I have never met anyone who thought it was unethical."

- Glad to meet you.

- We still do it, but there are ethical issues.

 

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The ethics is all about claiming NON-PROFIT.

 

- There is no ethical problem with earning money. There is an ethical problem with earning money and not calling it income. (i.e. skirting taxes)

 

- There is no ethical problem raising money to send yourself to camp. There is a big ethical problem raising money for a non-profit and using a significant part of that money to send an individual to camp because he earned the money. It's also an IRS issue. But your groups are probably okay because the IRS doesn't audit that small.

 

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RANDOM THOUGHTS ...

 

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You are on weak ground when it's ethical because it's such a small amount. Is a small lie not wrong but a big lie is wrong?

 

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Plus BSA is about CHARACTER. Honest Abe Lincoln walked miles to return a penny. Even then it was a small amount. That's character. He did the right thing.

 

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QUESTION - Do you think it is ethical for a food shelf to give donated food to a family free-of-charge if they stay to work the food shelf and charge other families or charge a membership ?

 

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QUESTION - Is it ethical to run a fundraiser for a non-profit in the name of the nonprofit and keep 75% of the money and only give the non-profit 25% ?

 

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IMHO, waiving dues for participation is the same as requiring someone to pay to play. The volunteers are personally benefiting from the fundraiser. That fundraiser is NOT a non-profit event then. I'm okay with it because it helps the kids, but it is personal benefit. i.e. INCOME.

 

IMHO, requiring participation is the same as pay to play also.

 

My opinion is based on my IRS readings. I could be wrong. But it's what I understand right now.

 

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***** REAL EXAMPLE ***** A local family, not in our troop but I know them personally, never had to pay anything for scouts because their family sold so much. Over ten years, that scout's family (multiple youth) had to have earned more than $10,000 for the family. Their family averaged $5000 in popcorn and wreath sales each year. Work connections and hoofing it around the neighborhoods.

 

That's a business. And I think they were teaching their kids how to have initiative to personally profit. They paid for two jamborees. 4 high adventures. Boy Scout summer camp each year for 6 years each. And much more.

 

I've been in scouts for 13 years now with my FOUR sons. We've easily spent $10,000 on activities and events. Probably more. I can deduct some cost because I'm a leader. ... BUT I was taxed (FICA, Medicare, income tax, state tax) on that money. I don't get FICA and medicare tax back on my share. That $10,000 required me to contribute at least $2,000 (or more) to the fed and state governments. So, that other family got away with not paying any tax. They saved a lot $$$$. He and I have similar jobs and earn similar money. He had more get-up and go to sell the scout products.

 

So what is fair? Personally, I think the family should be issued a 1099 for income.

 

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IMHO, we all want to look the other way because we justify the wrong because it helps the youth and it's a small amount and it helps us achieve our own goals (i.e. youth participation, character building, etc) I'm not sure that moves it from wrong to right hough.

 

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The IRS does have an INSUBSTANTIAL test. I don't know know the threshold. Seems something like if you raise $3,000, it is okay to use $30 or $100 to thank those who helped. I'm sure it would not be viewed as insubstantial if you allocated $2000 or $3,000 to the participants.

 

Personally ... I think you're fine when the amounts are small but it's unethical when the amounts get significant.

 

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IRS only cares when you get big enough to make it worth their effort.

 

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Anyway ... I just don't think we should be so cavalier about it when we say if it's okay or not.

Any way you go *someone* will complain.

Like I said before. It's not the size of the troop, it is the size of the CO that will attract your friendly neighborhood agent who will be happy to help clear things up.

Last post I've seen from Beavah was May 15, so he's been through the worst, maybe some of the better.

I think you did the right thing there Basement. What was his reaction to your suggestion? Did you offer to help come up with a plan to improve?

BD has he performed badly enough for you to remove him from his POR? If so, replace him and mark time served.

Pages 22-24 of the 2011 GTA cover this. It says, "only in rare cases - if ever- should troop leaders inform a Scout that time, once served, will not count."

If it is for Star (assuming since you mentioned 4 months), remove him, give him the POR credit and let him know the standard he will be held to for Life. Hold him to his POR standard early on...