kahits

JinKC,

Even though my question to one of my crew committee members, whos' son is the current Chapter Chief, came back as a suggestion for him to wait until he was at least 14 going on 15 to be elected, I am realizing that is probably one of the reasons the chapter is so poorly attended and functioning right now. They need to get better participation from other troops, and I see that. I don't know what the status of the chapter adviser is going to be, but I think our small, old, troop can help, even with a scout or two for now. In a way our troop may be too confining, with most of the older scouts not active, and only showing up at meetings to touch base on the status of their eagle requirements, and not even bothering to stay for the meeting. This is all before my arrival, even though I am now the SM, but as many have said, the future of this troop is the new boys who are coming in. If they vote both boys into the chapter, I would like to see both dads go in as well, which would include myself. The other dad was elected to OA as a youth, but moved out of state and never completed ordeal. He is former military (Desert Storm Apache pilot), now a US Federal agent/pilot and I have learned to respect where he comes from, even if he can be a bit of a drill sgt. on campouts. I think if my son were to commit to what is required to be a member of the chapter, he would do well, even at his age, to vastly improved the ceremonies they are required to do, and it would inspire the next wave of our new scouts to do this, as soon as they are ready. With the chapter being dominated by a single troop, yet only a few who show up for meetings, this will create a trend away from that, and possibly help to stem the slide that has been occurring for many years now. They have been offered help with regalia and they have not taken the offer, and there is certainly no talk of a dance team. Something is just not working, and it is my hope that we might be able to help. I know my son can. He is a very old soul, and the most cheerful, yet reverent young person I know of.(This message has been edited by kahits)

Thanks,JinKC.. I asked one of my female leader contacts, who's son is the Chapter chief, about the age of the boys, and she felt they should be closer to 15 to do OA. I guess there is no shortage of opinions either way. I will look closely at the OA standards for all of the boys as a part of this process. When it comes to this decision I will keep it open until the chapter election team arrives.

I was thinking of posting a seperate question, but it appears you are talking about similar things to my question. Currently being the SM for my son's troop, and CA for my daughters venture crew, I'm learning alot in a very short period of time. Most of the boys in the crew are older scouts in the OA chapter, and one of my assoc. advisors is the OA chapter adviser. Our district OA chapter is having very much the same issues as is being described in these posts. The troop that shares the same unit number to the crew is the unit that mostly shows up for any of the OA chapter functions. They want to see more members attending from other troops, but for now, it's usually just a handful that show up from that unit. The rumor is the chapter adviser is probably in need of replacing if the chapter is to survive, but I don't know if it's all that easy.

Now to my question, we are a much smaller troop that meets within a few miles of this other, larger troop. All of our HS aged scouts, who are mostly absent from our troop activites as they try to complete their eagle requirements, have already been voted into OA, and have done just enough to get their flap and sash. The only two scouts who are eligible for elections are my son (a 12 year old, 6th grader, who crossed over in Jan. of his 5th grade year.. he's been in since Tigers.) and an 8th grader, who joined in the fall of his 7th grade year. Both will be receiving their 1st class rank in about a month, and in time for OA elections. I had not seriously considered my son ready for something like this, because he is still immature in many ways. However, he is probably the most focused kid of the new scouts, and because of his native background (Dakota/Omaha), he has been dancing since he was 7, when my father did a naming ceremony for him. He goes to a new Native (I just prefer Indian... but my daughter cringes when she hears that.) charter school here, that has some amazing programs and clubs. He is the head man dancer in the powwow club, and leads the entire student body in any of the community celebrations they have had since last fall. He's a pretty fearless young man, who just does not get embarrassed. He has amazing abilities to memorize ceremonies, and is also an accomplished artist. I'm wondering if he could help the chapter, even at this early stage in the troop? I know the other, older boy could easily do OA, but I could see him more as another of these patch collectors. What do you consider the basic requirements for being a viable member of OA, and would it be better if he waited another year. He turns 13 in July. I know you can't talk about it, but is the ordeal something that would limit a younger scout from completing as well? We will probably, and should have OA elections in April, but I need to know a little more before he finds his name on the troop ballot. Thanks,

I went to our district awards dinner (actually, it's dessert) last night, and was surprised they did not give out the award for starting a new unit. They introduced it last year, I believe, but now I'm wondering if that was a one time only award or did they just forget. I thought I would ask here, first. There were several people who started new units (mostly troops and crews) but no award.

Architect by education [bArch Univ. of Nebraska/Architectural Association London, Eng.)& March Univ. of Oregon)] and 20 years experience, but with a wife who loves her very demanding work (OB/Gyn), and a 12 year old son who started scouting as a Tiger (currently 2nd Class scout) and a 14 year old daughter who developed a love for scouting watching her little brother, I have taken an indefinite sabbatical to do some things. My daughter is the current President of her Venture crew, and is the primary recruiter of the girls in the crew. I still do design work (we do school design as our specialty), but am focused on these two units, as long as my kids are on fire for them.

I started as my sons Tiger DL, and at the end of that year, the pack leadership decided to pull their boys out of that school, and offered for anyone who wanted, to take it over. We had like 1 weeks notice just before school ended for the summer. I was encouraged to try and keep the pack from going under at summer camp (DE doing his job), and decided, with the help of the other parents, to give it a shot. I continued to be his DL, as well as taking on the CM position. By the end of the 5th year, I was also doing most of the CC's work, by no choice of my own. When it came time for his crossover, my DE suggested that I look at a local troop that was about to fold, because of a lack of young boys and new adult leaders. We decided to give it a shot, and almost a year later, I am the SM of a 69 year old troop (Jan 1938). My daughter finished 8th grade last spring, and I started a crew for her, and 2 girls she recruited, along with 3-4 older scouts from the troop that shares the same number (not my troop). I am the crew advisor for at least the first 2 years, but am primarily committed to the my son's troop. The crew has 2, young, assoc. female advisors, and 2 assoc. male advisors, all with a lot of scouting experience, so they are set in that respect. At this point, even with the challenges that continue to come up, I have no regrets. 5 more years with my son, and most likely 3 1/2 with my daughter, will be all that I have left, and it is my hope to make the most of it with them.

I found this note on another scout flag ceremony, that had this specifically to say about the crossing of the colors. I like the idea of posting the colors, seperately, which would eliminate this confusion of which side the US flag is on, when the colors cross. I think the idea of full uniform, with white gloves, with a full flag ceremony will be enough for the district awards (but the crew will need to decide). That note as it was written:

Note about the "cross the colors" command: The US Flag is always on it's own RIGHT - so when marching in, it will be the rightmost flag in the line. But, when posted at the front of the room, it still needs to be on its own RIGHT, but now from the perspective of facing the audience from the podium/front. This command is used in the opening ceremony to get the flags from the color guard formation to their appropriate flag stands, and the flag bearers need to cross to the opposite side as they do this. You could alternatively omit this statement, and just have each flag move from the formation to the flag stand as each is called out to be posted individually.

http://www.scoutorama.com/ceremony/ceremony_display.cfm?cer_id=11

I have a simple flag ceremony question, that has to do with the conventional flag ceremony that involves the American and unit flags. As you see it from the audience, the two flag bearers walk to the front of the room, with the American flag on the right. When they reach the front, and do the crossing, which flag is closest to the audience? My son's troop always makes sure the American flag is what you see, and the unit flag goes behind it at the crossing. The boys in the crew, who are from another troop, insist, the American flag goes behind, which from the front, would be seen continuously (which was their explaination, when I questioned it...) but not by the audience. Which is correct for a crossing, 2 flag ceremony?

Thanks, very much for your ideas... the crew meets next Wednesday, and they will have to make a decision. We as advisors have ideas of our own, but will let them decide what it is they would like to do.

This crew is going to attempt to do just about everything that a crew can do, in terms of high adventure. Right now they are planning on doing some cave science for a science academy program on the base, here in town. No idea what they are going to do next summer, but it won't be a high adventure base, not this year.

As for the flag ceremony, I think it will have to be more like a traditional flag ceremony, and will not involve any kind of media presentation. They are talking about some sort of honoring of the veterans, but that might be hard to do as an introduction to the District awards program, itself. I guess I was hoping for something that may have been written by or for a crew that could be incorporated. Thanks,

Wallace.

My daughters crew (she is the current Crew President) is wanting to perform the flag ceremony for the District awards dinner (actually it's dessert). The District commissioner is encouraging but wants to see something more then what the previous troops have done, in just posting the colors and saying the pledge. Does anyone have some ideas of a venturing flag ceremony they might consider for this honor? She wants to do it with the two other girls in the crew, which will be very different, from all the previous troops that have done it up until now. Thanks.

Okay, can you tell me where they wore them back in 1938? Were they ever worn on the collar? I saw a set on Ebay that were sold by a family who said their father, or maybe it was grandfather, wore them on each side of his collar, but I didn't know if that was an official method. I can't imagine selling something like that in the first place, but all I have seen reference to is a coat lapel, which I imagine would not be a problem, since it is not uniform related.

I know they were worn on coat lapels, and since I had two I was wondering if they could be worn on the uniform collar. We are going with a custom, square neckerchief (Chief neckerchiefs will be the maker),so you won't even see the collar, but they would be there, somewhere. Obviously, I love the age of the troop, and want to celebrate that as we begin the task of rebuilding the numbers and inspiring new scouts to come to the troop that began in January of 38. Thanks,

Having just taken the SM position for a troop that was chartered in 1938, I have 2 of the round, green SM pins that were first issued in that same year. I'm wondering where these pins were worn on the uniform, if they ever were, or were they worn on the lapel of a coat. I don't know if any of you go that far back, but I would love to use these in some way, as a means of acknowledging the age of the troop.

Thank, emb... I guess I'm a little out of order on that, but sometimes that is the way it goes, with this crew going into last summer with a bang. I'll have to get with the Assoc. advisors, on this, but it does need to happen, perhaps over the break. We are lined up to do Kodiak next summer, with one of the districts committed to putting it on, so all of this will be happening in the next 9 months. We do not have alot of local Venturing sources, so are having to pretty much do it on our own, but that is not to say it can't be done, it will just take a while. Thanks for the narrative summary. I think that clarifies alot.

I have been attempting to gather information beyond what is mentioned in the Venuring Leader manual. My only contact for venturing is the designated metro venturing chairman, who represents all three of the districts. He originally told me it was a formal training the council had to do, but now is telling me it is all in the leader manual. The manual says it should be lead by a council or district facilitator, which suggests there is more materials available. The crew completed the VLSC over the summer (we chartered at the end of April, 06), and having just had our 2nd crew election, we are ready for something more specific to the officer roles of the crew. Am I looking for something that does not exist beyond that agenda on pages 43-45? Thanks!

Thank you, MD...

It is like holding your breath, trying to get to that next group of new scouts, if there are any. Our meeting this week had to delay starting because we only had the ASPL and my son. The other, not yet first class scout eventually showed up, and we had the meeting. They worked on some first aid for the 1st class rank, and we talked about our camping trip to White Sands, next month. The rains were so heavy down south this summer, it is still flooded, and the gypsum, which is what the white material is, acts like a plaster bathtub, and will only go away thru evaporation. Many of the older scouts (we did the recharter last Saturday, and have 8 boys going into next year, with 10 leaders) were going to go on this trip, because it is alot of fun, even if we can only get down there for one night of camping. That is a hugh disappointment, but there is not much you can do about it. We need to go camping, since this months outing was cancelled due to lack of numbers, but we need those older boys, at least until we can get the new scouts that are supposed to be coming in February. We are definitely in the place you described, and can only hope there are fresh troops coming, so to speak. Thank you.

Thanks, mtm25653... those are some very good ideas. His charter school will eventually be 6-12th, and they began this year with 40, 7th graders and 60, 6th graders. Each year they will add a new 6th grade. I put alot of effort into sending flyers home with the boys in the 6th grade, to invite them to the troop open house. Apparently, alot of boys were talking about going, and then only 2, twin brothers showed up. They were under the impression alot more boys were going to be there, but it didn't happen. I never got around to try and find out who they were, let alone a way to get them to come to a meeting, but this is only the beginning with that school. They are going to build a new facility, in about 3 years, and by then will be ripe for many eagle projects. The current situation at the church, where we meet, is not all that great (they steel fenced in the one area we could do something outside, to make a playground), and since his school has asked about whether the troop would be interested in relocating, this might eventually work out. Right now we have about 5 older scouts who are getting close to finishing their eagle, but once that is done, I would consider just moving the troop out of that basement to a better place. I very much would like to be the design architect for this new school, but the promise of a new campus is enough for now. I do believe this Charter school can be a great group to recruit scouts from, and am approaching it as such. They currently don't have a flag pole to do a flag ceremony, since it's temporary.

Wow, I knew there were more stories out there. Thank you, gwd-scouter! That was a great deal of experience and love for scouting you shared, and I feel the very same way about what I am doing with this old troop. And yes, t158sm, all of these units do run in cycles, as I have heard from previous SM's with this troop that I have met these past few months. The troop had gone down to just 3 boys at one point, and somebody obviously stuck with it. There were 16 boys as of the beginning of this year, including my 3, but we are down to 8 at this rechartering. There are many opportunities that I consider well worth the effort, between the two local packs, and my son's new charter school. Our campouts this year have been from 3 to 4 boys, but we have gone every month until this month, with 2 of the new scouts leaving since October. Next month is the annual trip to White Sands (they play capture the flag under the moonlight, if there is any...) National Monument, and quite a few of the older scouts will be going with us, along with a Webelos or two in need of their overnighter, before next February's crossover. I'm really looking forward to it, as is my son. I know we'll have that gypsum all over the place when we get back, but what an adventure.

As an architect, I enjoy opportunities to design, just about anything. I want to purchase a trailer to use for the troop, so I don't have to pack up the Land Rover, or just keep it packed the way it now is. The troop needs a new neckerchief, and I want them to go back to the original, square design (something so big, they can't possibly put it under the collar). There may not be enough money in the troop account to cover that, right now, but I'm willing to spring for it, and sell them back to the troop as they need them. It's a great opportunity to set the tone for this troop renewal, and if the kids don't see this as an adventure for them, it is hard to get more kids to join, particularly if they are going to go out on a limb and recruit a friend. The sabbatical I took from my work to do this (I started when my son went into Webelos) has been a great opportunity for me, personally, and my hard working wife is supportive as long as it involves our children. I can't believe how easy it is for me to go camping (the cot helps), but I no longer have those difficult moments where I have to talk myself into getting packed up, when I know I am the only consistent adult who drives over to the church to pick up the boys. I'm in on this journey, and it makes me smile to know there are more of you out there willing to do this for your son (and daughter), and anyone else who chooses wisely to be a part of it too. It won't be long before all of this will be gone, and I can sit back and reflect and have absolutely no regrets about what I did out of love for my boy. Thank you all!

Eamonn, you make some very good points!

I agree that a long troop history is something that adults can better grasp, but troop aged boys can certainly be taught to embrace historic concepts, if it has some impact of their experience. I'm trying to make those connections with new neckerchiefs (square rather then triangular), and the unit insignia has a 65 year VB. It's a start at least.

The CO is an unfortunate part of the whole situation. We currently meet in the basement of a church, but they have long severed their connection with the troop over contemporary religious issues, that made it difficult for some parents to allow their Webelos to come to the troop, becasue of it. The current CO is a law firm that really has no actual connection to the troop. I guess I have gotten used to that, since the pack had similar CO issues, with little to no assistance being rendered to the unit. Our COR is a consultant to the firm, but is very active with the troop. It just does not go much beyond that. That is the way it is, and I have had to just accept that, but you are right this does not help the situation.

I consider our current active troop numbers to be temporary, and always did since the crossover, but there is a limit to what can be done without more boys. There are 6 coming in February, and possibly a few more, which will make a difference, but that is a ways off. The only school I am willing to recruit from is my son's charter school, but I know it might not produce many new scouts. The public middle school across the street from the church is really a difficult challenge, and I know I don't have the energy to put on that kind of recruitment effort.

We did have a meeting last week to talk about the next year for the troop, and we do have the commitments of the older scouts, who certainly wish to complete their eagle, but some of them have friends in other troops and would move if they had to. Their parents are also solidly behind them, and serve on the committee and as ASM's, but don't do much more then that, and it has been difficult getting that 2nd adult on campouts. I agree that I can't count on the District people to help my much in this regard, but I know if I really needed something, they would respond. I'm on good terms with the District Chairman and Commissioner, and work regularly with the OA Chapter Advisor, who is one of my male assoc. Advisors for the crew. (I know... this is enough for most people, but I did agree to start a crew, for my 14 year old daughter, who is currently the new President. I have plenty of advisors to hand it off, if I need to, but not right now.) So, as you can see, the district is like a family, and I am on good terms with most everybody, with the only exception being the new DE. I don't expect much help from him.

I think your peer to peer idea is very good, and probably the best way to bring in boys with no prior scouting experience. I know it's difficult for some because they don't care to share what they do in this program, but I have a problem with any boy who is in the unit, yet denys they are members, if they are going to commit to making eagle with the time that it will take. We lost a boy last week, who was too much of a follower and started letting his peers at his new middle school tell him what he should be doing. His parents were not happy about it, but when you leave an 11 year old kid at the local skate board park for hours on the weekend, what do you expect, when you know his is impressionable?

I do think the best way for boys to come to the troop is for the troop to do alot of fun things, that can be shared. We have created DVD's for each COH and they do tell some great stories about what the troop did since the last one, and they can't hurt to distribute to potential recruits.

Scoutreach is not an option, because we are near the university, and they have many other places that have no units of any kind, while we have many troops in this part of the city. If we were to have to close the troop down, I know my son would be fine at a new troop that just started up nearby. I guess when you look at it, there are 3 troops that surround campus, and that is probably not the greatest, given how close in proximity all three of them are. We would be the troop in the middle when it comes to troop size, of these three units.

I think your last few comments pretty much said it best. I will never spread myself as thin as I was with the pack, but do have this commitment to the only crew in this part of town (I have 2 male, and 2 female assoc. advisors, however, and one is the District Chairman, if you can believe that), within our district (we are 3 districts in the city). Our troop committee is fully commited, but we need a few more new ASM's for the outdoor program. I will get 2 with the 6 boys that will, hopefully, be here in Feb. I know I have to at least try on this one, but will not drag it out, if it's not working for the boys. Riding a dead horse into the ground won't help anyone in this troop, and I never said I could save the troop, but came over to at least try. This unit is my primary focus. I really do appreciate your experienced advice, and am realistic in where I find myself, but the SM is not really gone yet, but will be after New Years. I feel good about taking the reins, and have proposed quite a few things to help distinguish the troop, in the eyes of someone who might wish to consider us. In the end, I'll do my best. Thanks, again...

Thank you both for those great words of wisdom. As I said, I had benefitted for the past 5 years under the assistance of a very young and energized DE. He left for the next level in that proScouter career track, last month, but I do believe that I benefitted greatly under his years of assistance and inspiration. As hard as he worked, knowing he had 4 young kids at home (the oldest, a son, was my son's age), he was the only person I could not say no to. His replacement is pretty much what you described and I know I won't be getting much help from him, let alone the kind I might actually appreciate.

Since I am the first, and only adult, to come from the feeder pack that shares the same unit number, this has been hard, and with the original 3 boys now down to just my son, I have been having my doubts since the 2nd boy dropped out last week. Even though we will only have 8 boys on the recharter (6 are Life or Eagle), I did talk with my CM replacement at the pack and he is telling me there will be 6 boys coming in the spring. I have another new pack in the neighborhood to present to, early next month, and am hopeful to get a few boys from their large W2 den. The main thing is I will be getting 2 more ASM's, in February, and that is what I am missing right now. As for the program of the troop, they have run a very good program, as far as advancements, camping each month, and treks to Philmont (the last one was 2 years ago). They have some nice, old traditions, but I can see opportunities to make the program just a little more fun for the boys, and I intend to work hard on that. The other troops, nearby, are of lesser quality, and much higher up in the adult baggage department. I would not survive in them as a leader, which means neither would my son. Our group of adults are very dedicated to the boys and whatever they choose to do. It's funny how you come into these situations and think you can improve it overnight, but after a quick 9 months, I have grown to respect all of the leaders and their dedication to this old unit. I'm ready to take over with their help, but I appreciate the little things that sometimes get lost in the larger units, so I'll hang in there and try to attract Scouts by making sure my few boys have alot of fun themselves.

Thanks, very much, for the feedback and encouragement. We actually have a Middle school across from the church that we meet at, but have had miserable luck recruiting from that particular population of boys. The adult effort that was required is just not in the troop right now, considering the limited success they had a few months before we crossed over last January. But my son's charter school is a very different situation and I think we will be successful getting boys from that school, because of the way they structured it. Right now I spend a fair amount of time there getting to know the boys. They all seem to know who I am in relation to my son, and since it is just 6th and 7th grade (it will eventually be 6-12th) right now, that opportunity is definitely there. We do have our brother pack that I was CM for the past 2 years, but they are not communicating much right now, but they have a den of Webelos II's that have been committed to coming in January. On top of that there is another pack with no connection to a troop, that we will make a presentation to next month, so I guess we have plenty of irons in the fire, in that department. Huh, I guess it's not so bad after all. I still need a CC for recharter however.

In the area of den chiefs, we don't have any boys who are viable candidates for that kind of service to a pack, but we had one for the last 3 years of my son's den, and it was a wonderful addition to the den activity. Ironically, we did not go to his troop, because my DE asked me to take a look at this very old troop in need of new leadership and young scouts. I have had a close relationship with him for the past 4 years, and he took an Assistant SE up North last month. We miss him very much, but I know I got the best from him and do feel up to the challenge, with a minimum of outside help. He nominated me for the Dist. Award of Merit last year, and I guess this is my challenge now. His replacement is, shall we say, less then helpful, at least not right now. I am also on good relations with the district commissioner, who's son is my associate male advisor in my daughter's crew. He is also the OA chapter advisor. For ony being 21, this guy learned alot from his father, along with his Eagle rank. He is willing to be my 2nd adult on troop campouts, if I need one.

I just need to keep hearing these stories about these baby troops, having fun, taking turns being the leader. I have to be honest to the Webelos that I will be talking to, but I think this is not as bad a situation as I think it might be. I know what can happen when they join a large troop and lose their focus, because the older scouts pretty much run them off, just being the obnoxious middle or HS aged scout. No matter, what it still needs to be boy led, and we'll just take it from there. Thanks, again, for the words of encouragement.

Having crossed over with my son back in January 06, we brought a total of 3 boys from his Webelos II den. I had agreed to transition into the SM position, and talked one of the mothers of the other 2 boys into being the CC, since both the SM and CC were on the way out. The troop is almost 70 years old (1938), which is one of the reasons I felt this needed to keep going. Since January, I have completed all of the SM training, and took the boys to summer camp. Since the crossover, we have camped out 7 times (18 nights), and have advanced the boys thru their 2nd class requirements. However, in the past month, one of the original 3 boys had to leave the state, temporarily, for custody reasons with his unmarried parents, and now I am being told the 2nd boys (he and my son have been in scouts since Wolfs, and both started as Tigers), who's mom had agreed to be CC, is going to be leaving as well, due to problems with middle school, and apparently an older boy in the troop, who is also having issues with his mom and new dad. We are going to have an emergency committee meeting this Thursday to talk about this and whether or not to recharter the troop. My concern is my son is now going to be the only scout left in his patrol, with this older boy, who joined as a 7th grader a few months before the 3 crossedover. He has challenges of his own, but for the most part is a good kid, but doing scouts is more his step fathers idea, and I know that is no way for any boy to do this program.

I came from a pack that was established to be a feeder to this troop over 6 years ago. We are the first group of boys to make that transition, with the understanding that more would be coming as soon as this spring, from the pack. Since I left, it has been hard for the pack to run things since I was doing too much of the work (CM,CC,W2DL&PopcornK), for lack of enough parents willing to help out. Lately I have gotten the impression we might not get any boys from the pack (they are apparently mad at me), so I have been actively contacting some new packs, nearby, that do not have a feeder troop, as well as trying to recruit boys from my son's charter middle school. Other then my son (he's a 12 year old 6th grader), and this 14 year old (8th grade), there are about 5 other, older boys trying to complete their eagle. Only 1 or 2 of them ever come to troop meetings, which makes our numbers about 4 to 6 boys at each meeting. We usually only have 3 (occassionally 4) that go on campouts, but we usually go camping every month.

I'm curious how small a troop can be to still be effective? At this point I am wondering if this situation is really fair to recruit Webelos into, if they don't have alot of older scouts to benefit from? I am absolutely committed to this troop and keeping it's history alive, but am wondering what the options are for this months rechartering. My son has a cousin (who lives out of state) who joined Scouting a year before he did, and is very committed to completing this program, because they have this shared connection. I know there are other troops that can be options, but none of them have, I believe, what this troop has.

The troop will be 70 years old in January of 08. Can any of you give me a scenario that you have experienced (pie in the sky is a little hard to embrace at this point..) that we can seriously consider? Other then the new CC, we have a very good troop committee, particularly our treasurer and advancement chair. I do have problems getting that 2nd leader to go camping, since most who have gone with me are either always out of town on weekends for their work, or will be leaving the troop with this next recharter. That is going to be the hard part, but I am on good terms with the OA chapter and they have offered to fill in as that 2nd leader. As of this fall, I have done 5 years as an adult leader, starting as a Tiger DL with my son, and have 9 months with the troop. I am very comfortable with the challenges ahead for me, but I know I can't do it all. I won't... Thanks.

Thanks, Lynda J... as far as I know, nothing happened to the ASM who spent a night with an 18 year old female crew in his tent. I did get the impression that nothing was done about it, other then to vote her out of the crew. The ASM left with his boy to join another troop, and that was fine with me.

kahits

Having started the crew in April, and finally finishing the VLSC this weekend on a campout, I would like to get some ideas of how you run your crew meetings. Things have been fairly informal up until now, but it's time to get things moving.

Thanks, TF52..

In the end, neither of these girls ever showed up for any of the crew meetings, and since one of them is off to college in a few weeks, the crew may never have to deal with this particular membership issue. It does help to at least give them a reason to complete their VLSC (next weekend, over 4 days in the Carson National Forest), and follow thru on these organizational issues that have been suggested here. I particularly like the idea of there being a membership committee made up of crew officer(s) and leaders to make this unit membership mean something. We have over 10 registered crew and I think they are ready to be more serious about how they admit new crew membership.

Kahits

CA