jmcquillan

OGE,

Your observations are something that the "core" group came to understand about 8-10 years ago. And the group probably was, at that time, guilty of missing that point altogether. Once the stark realization that we might inadvertently be exlcuding new folks without realizing it, we set about to change the path we travelled.

We made sure every door was opened. We made sure that any appearance of the core group being one that couldn't be broken into was gone. We even started a schedule amongst ourselves of "not being available" every once in a while to make certain positions open and uncovered for short periods, then longer periods, all the time attempting to recruit adults to cover these positions. But the results seemed always to be the same. Either the adults were far too busy to participate in this part of their sons life, or, when they did agree to participate, they would avoid getting any type of training, sometimes with the most remarkable excuses. They depended 100% on their parental experience and knowledge to set the trail, and knew little of the program. The frequent remark that I heard was..."That's not how we do it in my house." Planning and scheduling in the troop seemed to be moving away from what I, and others in the original "core" group, had come to know and understand as "Scouting" events and trips. There was an aversion to training at the adult level that began to follow to the Scouts level. (Monkey see...monkey do.) And discipline began to head south in a big way, on two fronts. The Scouts began to show signs of a lack of respect for adult leaders, and the adults showed the same for the kids. Discipline became far too heave handed for me. It became quite militaristic in some quarters. And some of the adults outwardly, among themselves, joked around about being the adult most despised by the Scouts this week..like it was a joke or a badge of honor.

My absence is not something that makes a whole lot of difference to this lot of adults who think they know all. And I watch from the sidelines, with others I've been with for many years building the troop up, as it slowly sinks into oblivion. This was truly a situation where the tide turned, and the few of us who had been around for many years, and understood what we had been trained to do, found ourselves drowning in a sea of contraversy and questionable direction from those who wanted to be involved, but only to do it their way, not the BSA way.

I should note that since my departure, most of the remaining core group has seen fit to follow. But in each case, the goodbye was more a door closing that spoke of good-riddence from those now on the inside.

We wish them well, though, if only for the sake of the Scouts, and the program.

Thanks folks. I'm not leaving here, that's for sure. I love the discussion, problem solving, and sharing of information and experience here. Thus, you'll see my posts regularly.

EagleWB, yes, I am searching for another troop. I have many, many friends in the eastern part of the state here, and it shouldn't be hrad to find a place to fit in...but not as SM. I'd rather pick one or two small areas of expertise and use my energy there. On the district and council level, adult leader training has always been fun for me...Fundamentals, Woodbadge...I'll find a place.

eisely, you're absolutely correct in your observations. The trend today (perhaps it's always been this way) is for all the work to be done by a few in a core group. The rest become all too comfortable with that situation. I've seen it in the youth sports I've been involved with, same for school functions, scouts, and even Lions. The same faces all the time. I've been helping to run a fund raiser at the high school my sons went to years ago, and have been doing it for probably 11 years. Still, same faces most of the time. I can't, for a moment, fathom why folks hold volunteering at bay, especially when it's for the benefit of their own kids. In sports, special skills and knowledge might be the determining factor. But in Scouts? None is required. All that is needed is a desire to help, and a touch of enthusiasm. (Put both in a bowl and mix well.) But rather than fight that reality, I'll just put my efforts where I know they are needed, and wanted.

And, I accept your thoughts on changing of the guard periodically. It makes good sense, especially having seen the many sides of not doing so sooner.

For as long as I've been with the troop, and for all the years since my own sons graduated out and went on to college, marraige, etc., folks in the troop would always ask me why I stayed, and what drove me to stick with it. My standard response was that it was fun. Scouting, and all that goes with it, was fun for me. The time it took to do the job was never something begrudging to me. I spent the time simply because it was fun. Lots of fun. And I always told people, when asked, that I would stay with it as long as it was fun.

Comes a time when one has to begin questioning that adage. Over the past few years, I've been witness to and confronted by, the participation by more and more adults who know it all, but partake not in training of any sort. No kind of enticement can get them to volunteer on more of a regular basis. No amount of reasoning can get them to go to training and gain the simple knowledge of what the Scouting program is, and is not. They're parents. They have sons. They know how to raise their children, and Scouting should be a lead pipe cinch. They go about what they think the Scouting business should be without regard for, or benefit of, a true understanding and appreciation for the program as laid out in black and white by the BSA...and common sense.

Now, comes the time when I have reached a decision. I find it's not fun anymore. The constant butting of heads with those who know not, but trudge ahead anyway, has taken its toll. I understand now why attending troop committee meetings and regular troop meetings is something I dread, not look forward to. I can't fight it any longer. And the notion that I've hinted at, that I might not be able to stay as Scoutmaster any longer under the current conditions, seems not to make a difference. The common rebuttal is akin to...ho hum.

Thus, the decision is cast. After 20 some odd years of doing this, I'm set to retire, and allow the troop to follow the trail that the present "untrained" volunteers have laid out for it. I will give them my best wishes, and hopes for the future. I'll remain on the roster as a general committee member, if they so choose, but I doubt that will be the case.

I've been asked, by those I've confided in, to remain as a visible and active participant on the district and council staffs where I might be of value. And I've agreed to do that. But I know it won't be the same. I'll miss the kids. They....were the joy in the job.

This probably seems extreme, but the circumstances are such that continuation with this troop is not a viable option. I would only feel in the way of those who choose to go elsewhere, blindly in my view, but nonetheless, elsewhere. Adn this is not my ego speaking, for in Scouting I have none. I'm only one guy who gave some time to help some boys along the way. And I enjoyed every minute along the way...until now.

How comes it to pass that we end up like this? Is my experience unique? I know there are those who stay as long as their sons do, then they're hard to find. There seems to be few in our area who have stayed as long, yet there some. Perhaps I didn't do something right along the way, and lost the power to instill the message to the parent corps. Or, perhaps the parent corps just decided that they know what to do, and don't need anyone to tell them.

A better, and more effective way to do that would be to have a multitude of Scouters, (no children, please), dressed in uniform, surrounding the protesters in a double line, no signs, no slogans, saying nothing.......

....Just silent vigil. A Scout is Courteous.

Imagine the impact....silent, courteous, counter-protest.

Scouting is the target of many these days. Even among ourselves, we rarely all agree. Ignoring those who would force their change upon us, and focusing only on that which drove us to join the legions herein, I wonder about the little things, the favorite things, the guiding things that we've learned along the way. I have some favorites that always bear consideration when I'm involved in one of my greatest hobbies....Scouting. One goes like this:

A Little Scout Follows Me

A careful scouter I ought to be,

A little Scout follows me.

I do not dare to go astray,

For fear he will go the same way.

Not once can I escape his eyes,

Whatever he sees me do, he tries.

Like me he says he's going to be,

That little Scout who follows me.

He thinks that I am good and fine,

Believes in every word of mine,

The bad in me he must not see,

That little Scout who follows me.

I must remember as I go,

Through summer sun and winter snow,

I am building for the years to be,

That scout who follows me.

What favorites do you have?

I found this in another forum, and thought it might be a great place to start with just why we do what we do. Can you add anything?

Ten Top Reasons I'm a Scouter...

#10 My basement was empty, and needed remodeling anyway.

#9 I get to wear a uniform with a neat hat.

#8 I like the smell of calamine lotion.

#7 I enjoy going to the bathroom in the woods.

#6 I'm in it for the crafts.

#5 I'm allergic to house chores (Needed something to fill the void)

#4 I get quality time with my son and 30 of his closest friends.

#3 It's a great way to collect coffee mugs.

#2 I needed a tax write off.

#1 It only takes an hour each week.

I stumbled on this in another forum. It seems that folks in the city of Flint, Michigan are annoyed with the BSA, too.

This story was published August 23, 2001 by the Flint Journal in Michigan.

HEADLINE: Boy Scout gay policy draws protest

--------------------------------------------

By Sheena Harrison

Flint - Nearly 50 people picketed the local Boy Scouts council Wednesday, presenting it with a "badge of shame" for excluding openly gay men from the organization.

Flint-area members of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) were protesting a policy adopted by the Boy Scouts of America.

"I look forward to the day when 'straights only,' like 'whites only,' will not be tolerated by those who recognize the dignity and worth of all of our children," said local PFLAG President Mary Scholl to a crowd standing outside the office of the Tall Pine Council at 507 W. Atherton Road.

The protesters, which included several children, picketed the office and chanted in the rain for nearly an hour before going inside to present the badge to Tall Pine Council executives. No Boy Scout officials were available to receive the round purple patch with a pink triangle and the word "homophobia" embroidered on it.

I stumbled upon this partial article today at another Scouting Forum. Unfortunately, the links didn't work so I've eliminated them. The paper in which the article was published has a database accessible only via password, so I didn't get the rest of the story:

This story was published August 24, 2001 by the Contra Costa Times in California.

HEADLINE: Something constructive can come of Scout episode

----------------------------------------------------------

[NOTE: The following editorial was written by Shirley Dean, mayor of Berkeley, California, and involved in the controlversey regarding the snub of the Scouts from Japan]

I sometimes claim I was 7 feet tall before I became mayor of Berkeley but got so short -- under 5 feet -- from everybody beating on me! Nothing brought that home to me more than the recent episode involving the Boy Scouts.

In response, I am determined to carve something constructive out of the embarrassing happenings of last week.

Last week was to be routine, starting with greeting visitors from our sister city, Sakai, Japan. Instead, Berkeley became the center of an international storm of controversy. By now you know the story. Thirty-eight Japanese boy and girl scouts accompanied by American Boy and Girl Scouts who were hosting the visitors were to meet with me in the Civic Center Building. Council member Kriss Worthington challenged the legality of the meeting, my presence as mayor at the meeting, and holding the meeting on public property. Council member Worthington said that because of their discriminatory policy, he didn't want it to appear in any way that the city of Berkeley supported the Boy Scouts, and suggested that I should separate the group and meet only with the girl scouts.

Now.........it may be that the rest of the story reveals just what is the "constructive" part is...but I don't see it. Do You?

Ooooh, this is sweet.....

Quote___ "They want to turn it into a private organization, but they use schools and public resources."

Guess what...it IS a private organization. Got that one right! But we pay taxes, too. And guess where those taxes go. They pay for the schools, and the lights, and the heat, and..and...

Quote___ "Cieslar said United Way officials oppose a campaign that limits an employee's right to choose and could not accept the compromise proposed by City Council members."

Right to choose.....right to choose....RIGHT TO CHOOSE???? Golly geee, that sounds awful familiar, doesn't it??? Right (freedom) to choose....right (freedom) to associate.???

The two-faced PC crowd strikes again. Ever heard the phrase..."pot calling the kettle black"? It's right there in Ann Arbor. They want the BSA to rescind it's freedom to associate, or they'll take away their employees right to choose. That's great....just great. And just who elected these guys?

I got wind of this story this morning by way of another discussion group. Just another broadside against the BSA by our good friends over at United Way. I begin to wonder how they can still call themselves "United"...

United Way chapter

cuts funding to Boy Scouts

By The Associated Press

Wednesday August 15, 2001; 11:00 AM

CHARLES TOWN -- Starting next fiscal year, the Boy Scouts of America will get money from the United Way of Jefferson County only when donors specify that's where they want their contributions to go.

Calling the Boy Scouts' policy of barring homosexual members discriminatory, the United Way voted 10-1 Monday to cut off funding to the regional Shenandoah Council after this year's $1,800 gift.

The United Way will give 19 local Scout troops a total $3,600 this fiscal year, but they, too, will be cut off next year, board President Jane Peters said. The only contributions that will continue are those designated for the Scouts by individual donors.

"We still don't approve of the policy, but we do believe in the programs,'' Peters said.

In the past, the United Way of Jefferson County has given the Shenandoah Council about $10,000 a year. The decision to cut that funding followed a four- hour meeting closed to reporters.

Bob Ferrell, an executive with the Shenandoah Council in Winchester, Va., said Tuesday he is disturbed that during its fund-raising campaign last fall, the United Way touted the Boy Scouts as a group that would benefit.

"They used the scouting name to raise the money, and now they're not going to give the Scouts the funding,'' he said. "If they had done this up front, we would have been concerned, but Scouting and the volunteers could have made other arrangements.''

The Shenandoah Council represents about 7,000 children in three West Virginia counties.

Mike,

I can only hope that you're right, and the general lack of enthusiastic support and concern for the organization that I find in my area is dead wrong. But it is out there, whether we care to admit it or not. Perhaps if the demise of the organization was imminent, unknown hoards of supporters would clammer from the woodwork. I would hope so. But my general perception is that the survival of the organization among those not involved is somewhat NOT...on the top of the list of important things for many.

While I am in total agreement with the lot of you, I might add that from my perspective, the entire gay community vs. BSA issue is one of having gained a beachhead, and holding it. In their "struggle" to overcome what they perceive as discrimination, the gay community has always sought one or two battles in which they could gain a foothold and finally be seen in the press as the innocent victims. Here, they have found, with the assistance of the media and the ACLU, just that foothold, just that beachhead in their "battle" for "acceptance". It matters not to them at all that by their actions there is always the possibility that one very good organzation may suffer irreparable damage. That's just collateral damamge to them...part of the struggle...they really have only one target. Everything hurt along the way is just collateral damage. And they have gained allies along the way. The United Way has become very important allies for the gay community. They have given legitimacy to the potential destruction of good in the name of what they see as equality.

Damned the torpedoes, full speed ahead. The BSA is just a convenient target that happened to be in the way at the right time for them. And their armada of allies seems to grow daily. And we will continue to suffer direct hits in various places. Hopefully, the damage will not be so great as to sink the ship.

But what really saddens me, is the belief that if the BSA was to suffer irreparable damage, and the ship was to sink, the collective concern of the population in this country would be underwhelming. The pessimist in me comes to call here, for I believe we are in the midst of a battle where the only ones who truly care about survival are us.

As Stan says, there are much better avenues to take to gain the skills of camping. Camping with a Scout Troop is one of the best, in addition to those listed in Stan's post.

Also, be aware that the OA does not exist for adults, and adults are only allowed (elected) in at the will of the boy leadership of the OA Chapter after being selected by the adult leadership of a Scout Troop for eligibility. And, it is not an organization built around learning camping skills. It exists as a service organization which happens to do a bit of camping as part of its agenda.

Better to follow some of the other possibilities listed.

And......given that we get all we do completed in ONLY one hour a week.......???????......we have all this left over time. We need to do something entertaining with it... :-)

P_Swigs,

I wouldn't take nay of this all that seriously. Given the nature of the bulk of the discussions in this forum, most of it being quite serious and dealing with the unkindly way many people seem to treat Scouting today, I find this particular thread to be more frivolous and fun. We're poking fun at each other, and the circumstances we fund the organization in. I wouldn't believ for a moment that much of this is taken too seriously by any of us.

But.....then again.....I just could be wrong, ya know.:-)

Bob,

You're right! Many folks would think that your credentials as a lawyer on one side of the card wipe out any good credentials you might have on the other side...like decency, hard working, family man, God fearing....Scouter...you know the drill...we all do. :-)

Congrats. Join the nice guys!

eisley,

That brings up a good point, and one that it took me years to realize. When the troop goes out camping, the SM does not need to be what you call the "trek-leader". Boy, I tell, you...if only I had known. But once I got the idea down pat, I always went on the trips, but I let everyone else do the organizing and work. All I did was to owrk with the SPL on getting his work done to organize the Scouts, and go camping. It was great from that time on. I really got to sit in the BIG chair (which I always supplied), and watched while the work and fun got going. My job as SM was enough work on these trips. But shedding all the other stuff was a real treat.

"Light dawns on Marblehead!"

In terms of a Boy Scout Troop, the "Unit Leader" is the Scoutmaster, as eisley said.

But....say your troop goes on an outing that the Scoutmaster can not make, and an ASM takes his place. For that particular outing, the ASM becomes the "unit leader".

But....the person who volunteers to sit in the BIG chair and be the person responsible for everything....that's the Scoutmaster....and he/she is the real "unit leader".

It would seem that there's a whole new category of folks out there whould be shunned...

polite, decent, hard working, God fearing folks....

...like us.

Although it's a nice idea, I believe the rules are similar to military personnel wearing scouting awards (like Eagle) on their uniform, and the answer would be no. But the best place to get the information would be the Scouting Guide to Insignia, available through the Scout catalog, or your nearest Scout shop.

Berkeley California...the leadership of which has, since he 60's been borderline idiocy...once again allows the public leadership to show true colors. Rather than the Berkeley Scouts seceding from the BSA, perhaps Berkeley itself should secede from all others. It rankles me beyond belief that these idiots who stand against the BSA, and claim that the BSA was their intended target, have not the common decency and sense to separate their political statements and concerns from the children. Apologies not accepted...never.

Then you might want to put the problem to them in those terms. Try not getting into the legalities and rules and such. Gently tell them that their friendship means a lot to you and the other adults leaders in the troop. Tell them how you feel about their efforts and dedication. Keep it all positive. And then, remind them the the BSA does have rules about unmarried couples sharing sleeping quarters and you would truly appreciate it if they would not place you and the other leaders in an uncomfortable position in this regard.

If their take on how you and the others feel is still blinded by their own hormones and feelings for each other, and they can't abide by the logic of the BSA rules, then you may have to part. But it would be their own choice not to play by the rules....rules of a game that they supposedly hold dear enough to teach kids about. Why would they not play by the rules themselves?

Back in the dark ages, when Scouting first appeared on the planet, the practice you've referred to was something that only "bad" people did. Religion was probably far more a part of most peoples lives then than it is now, and those people lived by the word...whatever word it was that was that part of their particular religion. Times change.

The practice today is everywhere. In fact, many people live by the adage now that there's no reason to get married until you've lived with the other for some time "just to be sure". It's something we take for granted. And I'm sure that if asked, the parents of some of the kids in your troop would admit to having done the same before marriage. It's hard to find a whole lot of couples that haven't participated in something like that along the way. Times change. In the dark ages, see above, even when "we" were kids, folks who did those things were shunned. Not so today.

And how do we prevent, or attempt to prevent the kids from seeing this, or knowing about it? You can't really. Especially if Mom & Dad aren't the kind of folks who try to shield their sons from the same. And how do they do that?...keep the kids in their rooms with the windows closed and no TV? That's about the only way.

I'm not suggesting that it's a good practice, but nor will I condemn it. If society as a whole, being far larger than the BSA, accepts it and makes no effort to hide it or change it, there's little that the BSA and the volunteer leaders can do either. But if a boy were to ask me, I'd likely tell him that the subject is one that everyone has a different opinion on, and they would be best served by asking Mom & Dad when they get home.

Well, it's just great the the Swedes and Mr. Cozza share a common opinion. I trust they'll have a nice life together.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

I would agree that it's too early to judge what may happen in this instance, especially in view of the medias propensity for mistakes. "It would be nice for the media to get the facts stright before they distort them." But, the meeting did happen. The policy suggestions were made by the large councils in attendance. The tide did seem to be turning.

And the most interesting part of this whole thing, is that the pressure, if it exists, and the movement, if it too, exists, are coming from within the organization. I can not recall another instance where pressure to change, or a movement by a council seemingly counter to the national policy in an attempt to address an issue or change it, has come from within the organization. Mostly, the pressure and criticism have come from outside. This move does not appear to be one to change policy in spite of a national policy, but it is something that does not in any way have the seal of approval from Texas...and that's news.