jmcquillan

If you're going to go the 2-3 man tent route, one of the most popular tents in Scouting is tht Eureka Timberline series. They're self supporting "A" frame tents with a door at each end. Our troop has about 15 of them. A really good idea, if you can afford it, and if you have a good dealer (Campmor should be able to do this, if not contact Eureka, is to build yourself a supply of replacement parts. Having extra 'bones' (plastic connectors), pole parts, and stakes is a good idea for when the tents come back from a trip with missing or borken parts. Ever notice how these parts were "in the bag when I packed it...they must have jumped out Mr. Scoutmaster..."

Received the following this morning regarding the status of USSCOUTS.org. FYI:

Just to make sure everyone is aware, We are back on-line in a temporary location. That includes usscouts.org, clipart.usscouts.org; www.macscouter.com; www.netcommish.com; and others.

We are still working on finding a permanent home for the entire family of sites, and have some very promising leads and contacts to do so. Access may be a bit slow for a day or two, while the DNS Servers all get realigned to our IP addresses, so bear with us.

Thanks to everyone that wrote us, or posted messages of support. Well keep you all informed as we progress.

--

Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:Paul.S.Wolf@alum.wpi.edu

Advancement/Safety Webmaster, USSSP http://usscouts.org

As a result of the expense and relative inadequacies of the current Scout uniforms for rugged outdoor wear, we forgo the notion of appearing 'uniform' when camping and hiking in the woods. It is far more practical to have the Scouts wearing clothing that stands up to the rigors of the craft we practice. Jeans and such serve the purpose well.

My service to Uncle Sam was spent in the jungles, thus the use for wool was non-existent. Yet, I have a good collection of the stuff for when I'm rather sedentary outdoors. You're correct that, when one is quite active, wool can be more of a hinderance than a help. The shear weight itself can be cumbersome. Newer, high tech outfitting can serve one better there. But I still relish sitting in my old chair, outdoors, with my cup o' coffee, watching the troops move about, in my heavy woolens.

Well, here goes...

I try very hard not to get hung up on the variety of reason and lack thereof that society ventures forth with, or without. The human species is not something to be taken lightly, nor is it to be taken too seriously, either.

Kids will be kids. Always have been. Always will be. Unfortunately, we have little control over their environment outside of the Scouting world. We can only attempt to divert attention to what we feel the program offers as more worthwhile endeavors and challenges for the boys and their time with us. And while the boys are with us, we will come across some who are stupendous...outstanding...gentlemen in every aspect...and a real joy to work with. We will find others who are more challenging, yet who 'get it' more often than not, and are able to move on from Scouting with 'something' worthwhile from the experience. And then, there are others. Some might say these are the ones with no hope. Some might say they're lacking in attention and/or attitude and/or drive to do better. Some come into our lives fully vested with the knowledge of Eminem and his breed, or GameBoy and it's kind, or something else. They've been so cultivated to thrive on a life full of the stuff of TV and it's resulting culture, that they seem beyond salvage.

And then, there's the adults who come into the fold, or merely drop by to help, or just show their face and make their presence known for better or worse. Many of these are not too far removed from the culture in which their children have grown, and it's easy to pick that out. (Apple don't fall too far from the tree...) Others try real hard to participate and help. They might be all thumbs, or perpetual screw-ups. But they try. Some just get in the way. And then, there's others, who, like some of the boys, are outstanding. Whether or not they wear the uniform, they exude the Scouting spirit. They jump right in and work, work, work. They never question the goal, for trained or not, they understand.

All in all, I've found that if I look beyond the menagerie of the strange that Scouting affords us to be associated with, I find enjoyment in all the little things that go right. The big things are wonderful occurrences for sure...but it's all the little things that show me the true Scouting spirit. The big things come as a result of all those little things. They can be expected in time, and you'll usually know when and where they're coming. But it's the little things that surprise me and keep me guessing...and smiling.

If I dwell too long on the things I see and read in the news, I'd sooner leave the whole business behind. But I know that in Scouting, as probably no where else, the little things, unpaid for, not looked for, not expected, will make my day. For I know, at least hope, that someday, somewhere, all those good little things in a boys life that come from Scouts might add up to a fellow whose name will appear in some light as a shining example to many others.

Well, whoever authored the message above, it is very well put and clearly stated.

OldGreyEagle,

I commend you. I haven't seen a better reason to be in Scouting than yours posted anywhere, for a long long time. I thank you for that. That one is worth sharing.

And Mr. LeRoy, you're dead wrong, again. As I stated up above, I agree to let you have your opinion, and you do. You've made that very clear. But it truly seems to me that the shoe you seem to be trying to put on our foot is the one you're wearing yourself. We accept the fact that you have an opinion. That's fine. Please accept the fact that we all have our own opinions, too. And the fact that they don't agree with yours is something you should just accept, with civility, as we accept yours as yours.

I'm going to try to paste in the email I received from USSCOUTS to answer your questions...hope this works.

Fellow Scouters:

Earlier today the U.S. Scouting Service Project went offline. The websites that we operate including www.usscouts.org; www.macscouter.com; www.netcommish.com; and others are no longer available for your use. It is our steadfast hope that soon we will be able to offer all of you as many Scouting resources as possible via the web.

WHAT HAPPENED?

Drivernet.com has for the past few years hosted the U.S. Scouting Projects web server. Today our host filed for bankruptcy and closed its doors at about 2:00 P.M. We had about two hours notice of this development and just enough time to remove our server from the premises.

WHAT WE ALL LOST!

The websites at the U.S. Scouting Service Project total over 10 GB of information in some 8,000 information files and some 15,000 image files. Up until today, the U.S. Scouting Service Project was perhaps the largest repository of Scouting information on the web and in the process of expanding.

WHAT IS NEXT

We are all volunteers and all trying to rise to meet this challenge. Tonight we are having an emergency meeting of our board of directors - eight volunteer Scouters scattered across the country. We will be looking to find a host that can handle the high volume of traffic that our site generates. We were getting between 2 and 3 million page views per month, which requires a very high speed internet connection, such as a T-1. T-1 connections can cost upward of $1,700 a month, which is far more than what we can afford. If anyone knows of a source for hosting that can handle this load and who would be willing to donate the connection or offer it at a very, very reduced rate, please let us know.

HOW LONG WILL WE BE OFFLINE?

We dont know the answer to this question yet. We hope that the time offline will be limited, but it could be several weeks. Once we secure a host, it will take time to get our server working at new addresses and to propogate the addresses across the Internet so that when you type in usscouts.org in your browser, it will find us.

HOW WILL I KNOW WHEN YOU ARE BACK ONLINE?

We will broadcast an e-mail message to as many lists as possible annoucing when we are back online. We have also set up an temporary web page at:

http://www.webnme.com/usscouts/'>http://www.webnme.com/usscouts/

where we will make announcements.

WE STILL HAVE SOME LIMITED CONTENT ON THE WEB

We know that many of you use our search service to find other websites and have as an emergency measure set up our ScoutSite Search engine at:

http://www.webnme.com/cgi-bin/searchscoutsites.html

where youll still be able to search for Scouting sites that were in our database. It isnt all of them, but it is still a healthy collection of some 2500 unit, district, council, and other websites.

WHAT ABOUT BALOOS BUGLE?

Depending on how long we are offline, we may put some content up at alternative sites and announce the availability of this content via http://www.webnme.com/usscouts/. For example, we probably will put the next edition of Baloos Bugle up on this site, if necessary.

Mike

Michael F. Bowman

Vice President, http://usscouts.org

Webmaster, http://www.webnme.com

US Scouting Service Project: http://www.usscouts.org

Dynapolis Internet Communities: http://www.dynapolis.com

Questions/Problems: Mike Bowman

Our troop is chartered to an organization that can not possibly provide us with long-term meeting and storage space. Up to last week, we had our own Scout House (a state owned facility, since declared structurally unsafe by state inspectors). So, we're on the road again...so to say.

One of the ideas we're toying with is the possibility of real long-term solutions in the form of building a new Scout House.

My question is: Does anyone out there have experience with the 'process' of getting something like this venture of the ground. We know what we want. We have architects and engineers lined up to assist with the design and costs. What we have no experience with is the process of seeking land, sponsorship, and funding. Our chartered partner has no money for this venture, thus it would have to be private donations. With all the hew and cry about public funding and Scouts these days, we fear to tread into the arena of public land and/or money. If you've been down this road, we would really appreciate the benefit of your experience and knowledge.

I know this is probably out of the ordinary, but I figure I won't know unless I ask. Thanks for any input you can provide.

Unfortunately, they lost their host. The host went belly up and declared bankruptcy. They had just enough time to get their gear out of the building. Presently they're searching for a new host, but claim that they will keep us all up to date via email as to their status (from time to time). To make matters worse, the loss of the host also effected MacScouter.

And I agree, it's like losing a good friend. We can only hope some real do-gooder host out there can make provisions for our friends on the web again.

I'm afraid I still do not see a problem. And to that end, perhaps I agree with your statement that most Scouters don't see a problem either. If I join an organization, or if my children join an organization, I know right up front what their criteria are. And if that criteria spells out that a 'duty to God', no matter what God, be it higher deity or a tree, is a necessary part of the program, then so be it. I accept it or I don't join. Simple as that. And, I believe, that's the way most Scouters see it.

If a governmental agency, or a town, or a school sees fit to not sponsor such an organization, then so be it. Find a sponsor who can accept what the program requires. That is NOT religious descrimination. It's freedom of association. There will likely always be organizations who can not accept another organizations requirements for association, it's a free country. And that, I believe, does not mean that I need to agree with your criteria, nor do you have to agree with mine. The important point here is that you agree to let me have my criteria and beliefs, and I agree to let you have yours. I do not want the ACLU or anyone else telling me what I should or should not believe in , or whom I should associate with, nor what program requirements the group I associate with should have. If one chooses to belong to a group that espouses belief in 'a' God, 'a' higher deity, there must be a good reason. And the ACLU should not be trying to tell us otherwise. Obviously, you have a belief that is somewhat counter to many of us. That's fine. I accept that. What I don't accept is your attempting to tell me that me belief is wrong, or that your way of thinking on this subject is better than mine. I accept the rules that I read and understand before I get involved. I would expect that others would do the same.

If the ACLU sees fit to get Scouts thrown out of each and every public institution that does not agree with their particular point of view, then I guess I don;t have as much respect for them as I might have otherwise. Freedom of association is what we're talking about here. Not every organization is, or ever will be, open to each and every individuals interpretation of what their rules should be, as opposed to what they are.

So, if the ACLU wins, Scouting loses. But I'm sure that Scouting will go on. Many of us would see to that, I'm sure.

But I thank you for sharing your commentary with us. It's interesting to see how others view the institution.

Last time I checked, there was no 'religious descrimination' in Scouting. All religions are accepted, tolerated, approved, etc. That is, of course, unless you consider Aetheism to be a 'religion', which I believe most people understand to be the lack of any belief in religion. So that arguement lacks merit. Having been in Scouting for over 16 years, I've had the benefit of many religions within my troop, and it's always been a real bolster for learning about each. Religious intolerance? Not in the BSA!! Every one is accepted. Each and every Scout can practice any religion to which he and his family belong. As Mike said, the BSA has never hidden that policy, and as proclaimed it quite emphatically in its publications and presentations. It has always been that way. For any organization to say that it didn't understand after applying for and receiving a charter is disingenous at best. Of course it's the Chartered Partners responsibility to understand what they're getting into, schools or otherwise. That's why the BSA produces all the publications it does for the purpose of gaining Chartered Partners.

Now, of course, this begs the question: If a school is a public institution, owned and operated by a town for the purpose of providing education to the public, who then is a unit actually chartered to? The school? The town? Can a public school enter into a charter (contract) itself without prior approval of the school administration? And wouldn't that administration be likely to investigate all that they're entering into? Or are these units that are professed to be chartered to schools actually be chartered to private schools or PTA's or PTO's, and not the school (town) itself? Who in the individual schools has the authority to enter into a charter (contract) without higher blessings?

Old Colony Council, generally south and southwest of Boston (Boston Minuteman Council).

Most units are chartered to churches, Lions, Legions, VFW's, etc. Few, if any, chartered to schools that I know of.

Haven't seen too much of the problem of units losing partners in this council, but it's happened in at least two nearby councils. So, it's not too far away, I'm afraid.

While I've never encouraged wearing camo on a troop camping trip, I've never encouraged wearing a Scout uniform, either. Uniforms are expensive enough, and I, for one, have always encouraged Scouts and their folks to save the uniform for events where it counts...meetings, parades, community service, summer camp, etc. Out in the woods, by ourselves, it hardly seems necessary to give the unifotm that extra wear & tear. So...Scouts are encouraged to wear clothing that fits the events, and if camo is to their liking, so be it. I do know, and have experienced, events like Klondikes, where the event leaders discourage wearing camo...too what end, I have no clue. Perhaps, though, it's as has been suggested above, that too many folks see that as bringing Scouting into the para-military arena. I'm also proud of my military service, but would not want to see Scouting identified as para-military. But I also think that there's too many folks out there that don't have any respect for the military, or the uniforms they wear, or the purpose they serve. If they could see the benefits of a strong military service in this country, perhaps they could get over the flak about camo.

If you follow Bootman's thread under Issues & Politics, you'll find that you are not alone. It's quite astonishing that the folks in charge of that end of this sites business appear to have an uncaring attitude. (Can you spell fraud?)

I would suggest that folks visiting this site refrain from making purchases. You'll be out your money, and likely never get what you ordered. The catalog part of this site hardly seems to live up to the Scout Oath and Law...which it would appear to hold high, but fails to live up to.

Now THAT should be published in the Scout and Scoutmasters Handbooks...

OldGreyEagle,

No offense meant by the "Grandpa" comment. I used to get that from my two sons....now I get it from my grandchildren....go figure. But even they wear wool when we all go winter camping with their troop. And I bring mine when I go winter camping with mine. I must admit, though, I do try to make sure the wool is as 'stylish' as possible. Here in New England, wool pants and jackets are pretty much associated with northern parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine...you know....hunting, trapping, logging, grandpa...

I agree whole-heartedly. If it's fashion you're after, then wool pants ain't gonna do it.

Can you spell "Grandpa???"

If I understand what you're saying, it appears that the last thing you want to do is travel down the same path that the other troops appear to be...and that's trying to denigrate the other troops. And that would be the last thing you woudl want to do. Let your troop stand on it's own merits without comments regarding the other troops. The ultimately works against you.

In our town there are two packs and two troops. Neither of the packs has ever been considered a 'feeder' pack. The two troops just run their programs, and offer the packs ample opportunity for their Webelos to come and visit and participate in various events. That provides both the adults and the boys great opportunity to see what each troop does. And the two troops are, indeed, very different, both in size and program.

In my tenure with the troop I've been with, we've had our ups and downs on recruitment. Some years we've gotten very few new scouts, and other years we've gotten the lions share. Same with the other troop. It's never worked out to a 50-50 or even a 60-40 split. That's the nature of the beast if you don't have a direct feeder pack. But, in the end, it still works for both troops. There used to be quite a bit of competition between the troops, but over the years we've come to know each other better, and we both understand what we need to do to get the Webelos to continue Scouting. That's the key for us. Not the competition.

Your situation, unfortunately, sounds quite a bit different. If the leaders and Scouts in the other troops are, indeed, using their commentary to denigrate your troop, there isn't much you can do about that without a face to face confrontation. And that, I can guarantee you, will serve nobody. The path that might serve you best, although it will take time, is to make sure that your program is the best it can be. Adventure. Opportunity. Great camping trips. Fun Fun FUN. And...get yourself in the local paper. Make sure that your Scouting events are known to all by getting articles in the local paper(s). If you don't have a volunteer to write articles and get them in the paper...then get someone. It will take time, but it will work.

As to the structure vs. non-structure issue, I can relate to that. The other troop in our town was, at one time, viewed by potential Scout parents, as a very unstructured troop with little adult leadership. Our's was viewed as much more structured. That couldn't have been further from the truth. What the parents saw was a group of Scouts who ran things well because they had been taught how to do it. And they did it well. Sure, we always had plenty of adults around, but each adult knew their job and place and did not interfere with the boys running the troop. But, if the folks in your area are bent on having the adults rule, then they just don't understand the Scouting program...and that goes for the leaders of the other troops, too. I'm afraid you'll just have to try hard to make yourself and your program known better. Make sure the boys in your troop do, indeed, like what they're doing. They can be your best advertisement.

Good luck.

Wool pants are definitely NOT on the way out, and the EMS guys who told you this are only trying to sell you something else because they don't stock wool pants. LLBean does, and they sell quite a few...go figure. I have two pairs from Bean and two older pairs from the Army/Navy surplus. They all have their place in the grand scheme of things in the outdoor world. If you're heading into a cold rainy weekend, you might want to pack other pants along, and you'll need long underwear if you think the wool will make your legs itchy. But in cold non-rainy weather, they're great. Not to say that the more current products aren't but wool's been around forever, and it wouldn't have been if it didn't work.

Good Luck.

It's absolutely amazing that after this series of postings, for all to see, that they might actually still expect people to buy things here. It's a poor way to run a business, that's for sure.

I must have been pulling a Rip Van Winkle, here. It seems that a number of the Eagle required merit badges have been revised, as have the 2nd and 1st Class requirements. While I was aware of the rank requirement changes, and did not agree with many, I was unaware of the new stiffness and elevated level of effort required for some of the merit badges, like swimming. What's up with that? Has National suddenly decided that there are too many Scouts attaining Eagle, and thus the bar should be elevated to make it tougher? (i.e., the racing technique requirements in the swimming merit badge.) I was always under the impression that the purpose of merit badges was simply to provide exposure to many varied experiences for Scouts, and give them a taste of what each was like...not to make them reach an expert level of competency in each. Am I reading this wrong, or has National taken a turn onto a road that will have Scouts climb an Everest-like trail rather than an uphill, but still challenging trail?

Every time I see these kinds of postings, I find myself being irresistably, but unhappily drawn into the discussion. But it's a discussion, like Mike said, that few address on a troop by troop basis. I don't think that the lack of attention to the subject stems from an unwillingness to tackle tough subject matter. Rather it comes from an unwillingness to allow the subject to intrude upon the program and goals the each troop has for the boys it serves. We've discussed the matter in the troop committee, as I indicated above. And, without anyone placing their views on the subject 'on the table' for discussion, we just all agreed that the matter had no place in our schedule. The time may come when the troop WILL have to address the issue. The time may come when a family or individual will make it an issue...'in our face'. But that time has not come, and we choose to keep our eyes focused on the prize... the Scouting program and all that it offers to the boys in our charge.

Myself, I currently have no homosexual friends (that I know of). If they're there, they keep it to themselves, which is fine by me. None of my aquaintences in Scouting, or otherwise, nor I, flaunt our heterosexual tendencies and lifestyle in the face of others. and that's the way it should be. My lifestyle is mine. And others can have any lifestyle they so choose. I don't feel compelled to accept their lifestyle. Nor do I feel compelled to accept someone, whose lifestyle I object to, to participate along side of me in any program I choose to participate in. Especially if they choose to make their particular lifestyle the focus of their being by making it a subject of discussion. I guess this tends towards the 'don't ask, don't tell' theory, which is fine with me. I don't need to know.

Our troop committee decided upon a policy to deal with this issue when it really began to boil. We simply decided, as a group, that the issue is not part of the program (as stated above), and that if the issue did come up, not one of us wanted to take the place of Mom & Dad. Your last paragraph pretty much states what we decided we would say, if called upon. To date, that hasn't happened. We feel that, with a large troop like ours, the likelyhood that parents of Scouts in the troop having opinions varying from ours is pretty good. So we don't want to be preaching something that Mom & Dad might not agree with. So we just leave it alone. But we have made plans to canvas the parents of the troop to see if there's a need to sit down as a group and make sure everyone understand what the issues (on both sides) are, without the Scouts. By doing so, then we would have a better feeling for what we, as leaders, should and should not say. This is another one of those issues that ties ones hands. We have to have a great deal of respect for the parents and family values of the Scouts, and must tread lightly in that arena.

Does anyone out there have experience with taking a group of scouts on a hut to hut hike in the White Mountains of Hew Hampshire? I can get rates and other information from the AMC. I'm looking for hands-on experience. Thanks.