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If A hundred or so people show up at an Exec Board Meeting to protest what's occurring in a COuncil, Dedicated and experienced volunteers - those NOT already removed from positions - are still walking away from supporting Council - with time and contributions The core of your volunteer base is trying to organize COR's to oust the SE Despite widely touted claims of enrollment growth, there is none - in fact losses (and though we aren't one of those COuncils where there's enrollment fraud - our new inner city units "disappeared" dead units are still on District rosters and te

Regarding my postings: When a CEO runs a company for his benefit, relying on smoke and mirrors instead of real accomplishments to meet the "measurements" set for his success, when that same CEO controls the board that has oversight of his actions (most were "elected" on his recommendation, when that CEO is selling off capital assets to meet short term financial goals, when the "employees" of that company are regular in their complaints and warnings but ignored and when the customers are ignored - and business continues to drop off, there is a problem. Our Council is like too many com

Thanks for the guidestar reference. EVERY Scouter should look up their Council's 990 and see what it says. Our Council is claiming far more boys served than is the case though frankly it is a large "improvement" over the past SE who was listing twice as many on the 990 as we had. Our current SE was less open in his last Council - membership numbers were not reported (except for one year) - but amounts are reported for "Membership Dues" That amount rose dramatically after two years of his "leadership" - even as postings here were decrying what had happened to a great Council

A 2000 article cites Ratcliffe - Chief Scout Executive at the time as receiving a compensation package worth $537,314 in 1998 That was a while back - Sounds like the salary comes with some nice perks which Bob didn't note. At the same time, the head of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America , a charity of similar size, had compensation package worth $265,962 THAT comparison is worth noting and should raise some questions. Does Mr. White do anything for Scouting besides blindly defend all and anything BSA on these boards? You can't fix what's broken if nobody will admit the

I've seen very little in the way of what paid professionals make. DE's don't seem to make much but that doesn't seem to be the case with higher levels. I've seen reports of SE's making $100,000, $200,000 or more. I seem to recall a report about the SE in AL - one of the 10 largest Councils making $284,000. Is that true? Id there any other compensation for SE's besides salary? Car, housing allowance? Anyone know what their SE makes? They are employees of Councils but it seems this number is kept pretty quiet. What does the Chief Scout Executive make? I read a report over a

Has Mr. White even read Boyle's book? His position seems to be that BSA is always right. Newsflash - nobody, no organization - is EVER always right. One of the problems with BSA right now is that ANY serious questioning of even clear wrongs is treated as an attack. Those reporting the enrollment fraud only went outside BSA because they were stonewalled and even threatened by paid staffers.Funny, but the same problem has been going on for decades. National is putting on pressure to add to numbers - and for some it's too easy to fake it. When a COuncil has to restate numbers by

Unfortunately, B.S.A. tends to be less than forthright in these matters. As far as the reader of "Scout's Honor" - you will be disappointed. B.S.A. has been less than diligent in this issue. WHile it's "not a race" - B.S.A. dragged its feet for decades in addressing child abuse. Only NOW are criminal background checks being run on volunteers. Quoting current news coverage - B.S.A. was aware of 1800 cases of child abuse that were NOT reported to authorities. B.S.A. officials have even ben arrested for failing to report child abuse - and law enforcement tends to bend over backwards

It's bad enough when ANY Scout leader is involved in something like this. But when the head of BSA's Youth Protection efforts - as reported by one news organization - is guilty of distributing child pornography how can this NOT reflect on B.S.A.? Note that this was a PAID Professional with 39 years service. This follows enrollment fraud in how many states now? Enrollment fraud by PAID Professionals trying to show "growth." And this is far from the first time this has happened. B.S.A. should be taking a long hard look at itself instead of blaming "liberals" for its problems.

This topic is one BSA has avoided and hidden well. Read "Scout's Honor" by Boyle Out of print but available though Amazon used. Any BSA Leader should read this.

So, what DO you do when the SE is the problem? District numbers are in and we're down substantially AGAIN in Cubs and Scouts. Volunteer fall-off supporting District and Council is substantial. They're now begging for Commissioners after removing those that have done a great job - but since they opposed our SE's position on facilities sales and other issues they can't serve. All the no-show political appointees aren't doing any work. Funny but after the scandal in AL and elsewhere we suddenly stopped talking about OUR pereviously widely touted new inner city units and the claims of

About "integrity" - this is not the first time this has occurred. BSA has recurringly had problems with overstating enrollments. National blames "individuals" yet BSA itself sets the tone that encourages this behavior by PROFESSIONAL PAID Scouters. Quoting an accomplished professional, BSA focuses on "meaningless, simplistic measures of success" to evalute paid staff: 1) How much money they raise 2) How many boys are enrolled 3) How many new units are started 4) How many "Quality Units" they oversee. Note the priority. Every Scouter I have ever talked to has had "roster errors" wher

You did not read the posting. The seven year old postings refer to the SAME problems we are experiencing with the SAME Scout Executive - as noted in the posts from his previous Council. The poster from 7 years ago is an accomplished Scouter, now a professional himself. The complaints he raised have been confirmed as valid with others in that Council. That SAME individual SE has been a source of continuing, similar and major complaints wherever he has served. BSA has heard the SAME complaints about this person from 2 councils - and his previous Council before those was glad t

So, what DO you do when the SE is the problem? Ironic, as another in our Council found the posts below in Scouter's very own archives. When an Executive Board handpicked by the same SE is the only way to remove that same SE, goo dluck trying to oust him. It is extremely difficult to get a hundred + chartering organizations involved to vote their legitimate vote though the effort is being attempted - a huge diversion of time and effort better spent on the boys in Scouting. So, how DO volunteers deal with a problematic SE, one who cannot lead, who does more harm than good in a

The SE does NOT have the right to kick someone out for whatever reason - the procedures do NOT state this. Under "How to remove a VOlunteer" in various Commissioner and District publications it is clear that even if there is a reason, ONLY the chartering organization can remove a unit Scouter - if they are uncooperative or whatever. But steps are supposed to be taken to deal with the issues before removing that person. Council can act to remove someone for "cause or grounds for legal action, misrepresentation or immoral acts" - but the person is still allowed to file an appel.

As noted elsewhere, our Council is in turmoil - with wholesale replacement of long serving volunteers in District and Council positions. Anyone criticizing the sale of Council assets has been "punished" in this way. FOS is being boycotted and hasn't made its goal since our new SE showed up. He has managed to unite volunteers into a way no other SE has - against him. A unit leader had his registration revoked after criticizing the proposed sale of a facility and the treatment of volunteers. There is clearly no "cause or grounds for legal action" to justify his removal and the units he's

Not to rebut all points, but we have had only one SE last more than a term - 12 years I think. They're on 6 year contracts. We have MANY MANY 20, 25, 30 and 35 year volunteers. Our Community has many ranging from 5, 10, 20 up to a 50 year that just died. Many serving at Council and District level have had VERY high level and successful business careers - careers with far more responsibilities than our SE. Frankly, many of these volunteers have or hold far more important and prestegious positions than some of our Executive Board members. And these volunteers are paid nothing for th

Everyone is making lots of assumptions based on their pov. However, I am also getting the feeling that getting one's hands on "rules and regualtions" my initial question - is NOT easy - deliberately so. A free and open society (American values)or an organization espousing those values should NOT have anything to fear by having such information readily available. What's to hide.Other BSA publications sure reference them enough. Those that presuppose that BSA is always right and that those pesky volunteers simply don't understand do BSA a disservice. In my experience, the long servi

There are a number of issues of concern. Our SE first alienatd a large number of volunteers over the sale of a now Council owned facility - this action is being fought in the courts. This is a waterfront facility with a pool - its used for swimming, boating, sailing and scuba and is the site of summer camps and events. It was donated with a trust fund for upkeep and maintenance. THis facility could NEVER be replaced. We've seen almost all of our area's assets sold off over the years - for millions of dollars - but somehow Council always needs money. If enrollments are up, why are they

Just where does one get a copy of the Byalaws and the oft-referred-to "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America"? They used to be available in the major Scout Stores but they're not there now and no reference can be found on Scoutstuff or any place else? Where can you get a copy? Seems like these been relegated to "Top-Secret" Status. We've got some serious issues at Council level and are looking for answers. Nobody seems to want anyone to see these items.