jkhny

Cleaning things up one step at a time - THIS is why some of us STAY involved. Challenged on numbers last Spring, the Exec Board appointed a volunteer to audit numbers last Spring. He "could not" or "would not" do so. All through 2005 there were endless recruitment pushes. BSA Region came in and did a LIMITED examination and said they could find no evidence that procedures and policies on membership reporting were not being followed. Nice double negative. NO specific numbers were mentioned. Guidestar now has 12/31/05 numbers up "Serves 7700 youth" NOTHING NEAR

At least two $400,000 awards have been made over all this - and more cases remain in the courts. While National media have ignored this, it has spurred a change in Idaho State laws on child abuse statutes of limitations and laws on reporting child abuse. When failures are so very clear and the wrong so very obvious, why does BSA simply refuse to hold its professionals responsible for their failures? It is hard to claim any "moral high ground" when such things happen. BSA repeatedly states that it has "rules and procedures" about all this. So, why aren't there consequences for professional

After variously claiming 21,000 or 15,000 or 10,000 participants in a program for "disadvantaged youth" the audit commissioned by BSA Atlanta found just over 5000 - with only 3400 or so "active." So... all those previous claims - made in soliciting funds, were NOT "lies"? It wasn't his job to make sure claims were accurate? It is according to BSA. And even after all this, when challenged to muster 1000 boys by a local Civil Rights leader, BSA was unwilling to do so. Many still have questions about REAL enrollments. If there WERE 1000 boys in this program, hold an event. If t

The SM behind boyscoutsfor truth was pretty clear in stating that he still believed that Council had overstated claims for "disadvantaged youth" He - like many others - came to a compromise "working within the system". If you want to stay in Scouting, you are told to shut up. In this case, I believe that is exactly what happened. He is committed to the boys he leads and wants to remain involved. Of note, Atlanta variously claimed 21,000 or was it 15,000 or was it the finally found (by the auditor chosen by BSA itself) 5,000 (with only 3,400 "active") - Atlanta NEVER mustered the 1000 b

No point in relisting all that's been listed in the past. But even the Wall Street Journal is covering the property sales uproars on the front page. Atlanta was more than covered in the media last spring but - as BSA counts on - they eventually lose interest. boyscoutsfortruth was the web page for the group involved. Here, well, I HAVEN'T walked away - unlike the 3 or 400 volunteers that HAVE simply given up after banging their head against the wall for 3 years. And THAT is EXACTLY what BSA wants - people to walk away. No problems here.... no dissent.... no complaints.... mov

Regarding "good" and "bad" professionals - BSA National sure doesn't seem to care if someone makes a mess - and it seems like they've "run out of desks in the Supply Division" to park the real screw-ups. A Council sure can't get a realistic evaluation of a professional when they're looking at resumes - there are too many loose in Councils. And it seems to be IMPOSSIBLE to EVER get rid of a paid professional - unless they're caught dead to rights by the FBI with kiddie porn. The group in Atlanta - and others - have called for a VOLUNTEER run "registry" where people can post their

And btw..... BSA National is sitting on $500,000,000 in LIQUID assets - not to mention all the property NATIONAL owns and the funds and property LOCAL Councils own...... What is all that money getting used for? It sure isn't being used to "support Scouting" in any TANGIBLE and MEANINGFUL way - like keeping up properties. Build it and they will come...... instead we sell everything off and wonder why nobody's interested..... Where does the money go? BSA National has a lot of HIGHLY paid people in National and Regional doing WHAT again? Funny how BSA is NOT very transparent i

We've lost a few hundred adults who have groen tired of trying to fight the good fight over the past 3 years. BSA has deliberately structured its bylaws to give volunteers that do the work of Scouting AS LITTLE say as possible in how BSA is run. TRY to oust a Council's hand-picked (by the PAID SE who they are supposed to oversee) Executive Board. CAC voted DOWN the same old handpicked slate chosen by a handpicked nominating committee TWICE and had to go to court to get them to hold another election with NEW candidates. TRY to organize COR's....... you can barely get enough volunteers to d

Our Council Leadership was challenged on enrollment claims last spring. NOBODY believes the claims made for overall enrollment - even one of the DE's quietly stated he would not be part of fraud. Seems like we have a lot of NEW staff - and vacancies in the paid ranks now. Official numbers do NOT match claims and an analysis of numbers shows a HUGE level of "churn" - sign-ups that do not remain active. We are LOSING long term members while signing up boys that do NOT remain for more than a few meetings. Yet this suits our SE fine. The total count is all that matters - even if active par

When the volunteers in a Council have to take that COuncil to court because the Council leadership REFUSES to follow corporate bylaws, something is very wrong. CORS and other voting reps deliberately and consciously did NOT "approve" the two slates of candidates the CAC put up for a vote. THe only choice they are given was to vote "for" or "Against" the WHOLE slate of handpicked candidates. The duly chosen reps and COR's voted AGAINST - twice. The Executive Board refused to allow other candidates - candidates that the reps and COR's WANTED to vote for - to be chosen by their hand-pic

Maybe not.... CAC volunteers took Council Leadership to court and won. Court ruled that CAC leadership had NOT followed their own Corporate bylaws and agreed with the volunteers bringing suit. Looks like voluneteers are finally going to be able to vote for a leadership slate THEY want - after REFUSING to approve the current leadership slate in TWO votes. Look for wholesale changes in CAC. But why should it take court action for volunteers to be heard by their own Council leadership? Why should volunteers have to take BSA to court so they can elect representatives and a Board THEY wan

BSA National has a HIGHLY paid cadre of "professionals" - Williams compensation package was over $900,000 in 2003 - cause for negative comment in the non-profit world. He is one of the HIGHEST paid non-profit CEO's in the country. This was expounded on previously. National has a slew of VERY well paid "professionals." SE's tend to be FAR better paid than their GSA counterparts. Here the SE makes $60,000 more than the GSA head (same exact geographical area and GSA has twice the number of kids enrolled). There's a whole cadre of "professionals" making obscenee and UNDESERVED salar

Reality check. Look at this for what it is. An attempt by out of touch National leaders to get more kids into Scouting. BUT it's NOT going to work and is going to HURT. Like it or not, Scouting is NOT "cool". It's down there with Marching Band and Chess Club on the "coolenss scale." And - like it or not - for kids in Middle School (the age group for 1st class, 7th or 8th grade seems typical), "fitting in" and being "cool" is a MAJOR focus in their lives. We have a successful Troop - over 40 kids many having NO Cub Scout experience. We run a great High Adventure program. BU

BSA has sent out a notice to SE's that the rewuirement for First CLass will be changing with the addition of a requirement. Boys must talk to another former Scout or some other boy about the benefits of Scouting, and bring them to a meeting, outing or some other activity. National seems to be a bit desperate in trying to drag boys in BUT this is NOT going to work and will actually HURT. More than a few boys are embarrassed enough at being Scouts. Scouting is definitely NOT ANYWHERE above the mean on any "coolenss" scale. I expect it's down near the bottom with "Chess Club" and

Food for thought......on many levels I am NOT saying that BSA is Fascist but there are disturbing similarities noted in CAPITAL LETTERS as addendums to the original. The fact that one can even make such a comparison should be DEEPLY disturbing. "Characteristics of Fascism 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. PRETTY CLEAR PARALLEL 2. Disdain for the Recognition of H

And again the focus on LOYAL and OBEDIENT. Hence my comparisons to totalitarian organizations. And a small amount of time Googling the organizations I mentioned would reveal quotes that are almost identical to arguments made here. NOT pointing out such behavior and mindsets is "unAmerican" and would be "disrespectful" to those that suffered the results of those showing unquestioning obedience and loyalty. We should be "glad" that BSA is merely throwing out "dissidents" -slandering them in the process. They should be happy I suppose that they are not jailed or worse....lol. And th

"No one with half an oncde of civility in them buys into your tripe of comparing an organizations ability to expect its volunteers members to speak well of the group to that of nazi Germany. That is just sick. " What's "sick" are the arguments that a few have made to defend the clearly indefensible..... some of the arguments offered by BSA supporters are almost VERBATUM to those offered by Fascists and Communists and SHOULD be appalling to ANYONE in Scouting. "Loyalty" and "Obedience" do NOT trump "Truthfulness." "Shut up and do your duty, obey your superiors" (paraphrasing)

I smell a troll - BSA Atlanta finally realize others are talking about this? "Sloppy record keeping" does not account for the VAST discrepancies in counts here. From even 15,000 to 5,000???? C'mon. And NOBODY saw this......nobody noticed THOSE kids weren't at Council events? Even the current situation shows a 30% overstatement between "enrolled" and "active" USING BSA'S OWN AUDIT NUMBERS. BSA shows plenty of "diversity" in its literature. If only reality matched the marketing. If you had something to be proud of you can be sure BSA would track thise statistics. Again, the L

IF BSA has nothing to hide in Atlanta, why not shut up the critics and publicly muster even the 1000 scouts Beasley challenged them to? So, WHY NOT allow an independent adit of membership? Analyze race AND income. Other groups do so. Again, openness and transparency are not to be feared when there is nothing to hide. Funny, but Girl Scouts keeps track of race. So do other groups - in detail. BSA seems to deliberately AVOID doing so - perhaps because (as many say) they have done such a poor job in serving minority youth. BSA claimed variously to serve 23,000, 15,000 or

"As I have observed in other threads, for BSA the freedom of association seems to trump the freedom of speech (so much for using THEIR example for the citizenship badges). Anyway, I decided to focus on the boys and the local unit and to try not to sweat the stuff I clearly do not control. It is for this reason that I AM careful to control access to my identity when voicing my opinions, here and elsewhere, and keep everything I do along those lines way below the radar. " And how sad - or appalling - is that? and back to the basic question - HOW is real change or reform possible in BSA

"Hypothetically, for a leader who has no other membership transgressions, what would it take in the form of public criticism to get the ax?" It seems like "not much" - and you can get thrown out even when you're right. Just WHY were you "warned"? What happened to "free speech?" Willis was thrown out after questioning enrollment numbers. Here a leader was thrown out over protesting property sales and the removal of long serving volunteers from District and Council positions who had done the same. In NE GA, a scout and their parent were thrown out for complaining about a

Another thread elsewhere supports a volunteer leader who has a past criminal record but shown no problems in recent years. Yet BSA is throwing out long serving leaders who oppose "unethical" actions by their Scout Executive and/or Council Leadership. Tom Willis in Greater Alabama was thrown out of BSA the same day his charges of fraudulent overstatement were proven true. Ronnie Holmes - the SE there was caught inflating counts for the second time in 5 years. Mr. Willis is in court right now. Mr. Knaul cannot afford to go that route - something BSA counts on. Four questions: Why

"To recap, for those not familiar with the situation in the Atlanta Area Council: For several years, DE's in the city districts have overstated troop and individual numbers. It is unfortunate, but it is a fact. This came to light last spring. An auditing firm was asked to review numbers, and confirmed this. The scout executive was asked to resign, which he did. An interim executive was brought in over the summer. The Atlanta Area Council hired a new executive in August, and his first day on the job is today. The council recognized the problem, the head of the organization resigned ( it h

"Bringing up issues is one things, MAKING them up is another. jhnky's arguments are exaggerations of the actual situations. He has repeatedly fictionalized the reports and the magnitude of the issues. He has also failed to show any measurable effect the he claims has resulted from this exaggerated events. It is rumor mongering at it lowest. The BSA is no more or less transparent than any other corporation of its type. Jhnky just doesn't like windows, He gets far more enjoyment from his own imagination. He thinks the BSA is clandestine when actully he has just never been interested

So again, the response is If you don't like it, leave. Unfortunately THAT is precisely what IS happening in BSA. Adults (and boys) ARE leaving. Older volunteers are dying off and NOT being replaced. Anyone else a bit embarrassed at the average age of Disrtict and Council level volunteers? Maybe they aren't quitting, they're simply DYING. BSA is FAILING as an organization - by whatever standards you use to measure "success." Yet when people TRY to address the NUMEROUS issues and problems in BSA they are "silenced", "punished" and even thrown out of BSA. This is hardly in c