jkhny

BW wanted more .....two of 40+ entries relating to Idaho Update after this; Stowell back in prison, another victim comes forward stating he reported a SEPARATE incident involving a separate abuser to Hansen before all this occurred. Two other abusers were also revealed to have been active in this Council. In response to "this is old" - it is long after Youth Protection was established. It is VERY relevant in that the SE in this Council is there IN SPITE of his failure to properly handle this and other incidents. This is one of the FEW times a court case has been UNSEALED. BSA wa

the short answer - paraphrasing something read somewhere not remembered BSA sure DOES reflect the good old USA - unfortunately. Instead of timeless values, BSA reflects out times. Overpaid executives fake results they cannot achieve. Assets are sold off to meet short term financial goals - hurting the company. Overworked and undercompensated workers see what's wrong and try to speak out byt whistleblowers are punished - fired for their concern. Criticism is met with rhetoric. ANY questioning is treated as an "attack." There is an increasing exodus in the lower ranks, with work be

"BSA does disappoint me at times. Then again, so does my son, my family, the Chicago Bears, and not leastwise myself. But it doesnt mean I love them less. So, jk, what I am saying is I dont know why you feel the way you do, but there are people who are working to improve the BSA. We could use your help " Too much to go into, too much to possibly cover, but fact is, I and others HAVE tried here locally to deal with our autocratic and incompetent SE. The way BSA is structured its impossible - CHicago makes that point clear. Volunteers have no real voice or control over Council leader

Idaho facts Kinda pointless to spoon feed someone who won't taste anything they don't like. Idaho's been detailed here previously and was a regular on "Headlines" - guess you never looked at the time. The Idaho Falls Post-Register details the Stowell case and others in detail. The series used to be a free link but no longer. Go pay for an online subscription yourself and read the whole series. Printing out all the pages and references gives you an inch thick pile. The series start: http://www.postregister.com/story.php?accnum=53165-02272005&today=2005-02-27&keywor

OK, you're really a nice guy. Point conceded. But I disagree with your semantics. Should a scout ignore or "justify" ethically and morally unacceptable, even illegal acts? Isn't it a Scout's responsibiltiy to question such behavior, investigate it and act to correct what is clearly wrong? Hence my postings about "enrollment fraud," Abuse cover-ups, property sales and more. A Scout is supposed to be able to act "ethically and morally" - teaching this is the stated MISSION of BSA. A Scout should THINK independently, NOT mindlessly obey. Wasn't this the oft highlighted

Stumbled across this. Not expresing an opinion on content, just noting that I keep running into very similar commentaries - from former Scouts, sons of Scouts, and even current Scouts.....This seems to have been inspired by a news report on the Alabama fraud. Know nothing more than what's on the link. His father seemed like a great guy, wish mine had been a Ranger at Yellowstone and I'd have killed to have grown up in all the places cited. Seems like he died far too young. Bet he was a great Scout Leader. The BSA these people see today is not THEIR Scouting or their father's Sco

I'd expect that from San Francisco - topical, ironic - from a place with a history of satire, political and otherwise (And a clearly pro-gay focus). But the same topic has been raised in far more conservative and "red state" venues - places that take God and "divine retribution" a bit more seriously. If someone in TEXAS has noticed and felt compelled to REFUTE it ....people ALL over have to be at least THINKING it... From the Galveston County (Texas) Daily News: http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=24562682e062dea8 "Is God Punishing The Boy Scouts?

Funny, but Baden Powell himself questioned whether there should be paid staff in Scouting. And the organization below - which has been growing (and whose existance in the US has been fought in court by BSA - afraid of competition?) does NOT have paid staff. Now the sticklers will note that this does not mean there is not a "parent" organization. OK, point conceded. ALL the functions of BSA with no PAID staff. From elsewhere: "Our Association, BP Scouts Association International HQ is based in the heart of England in Stainsby, Derbyshire, in the country where Scouting originated. W

"Taking a different tack from jkhny I tried the following searches. .......Thus my point is scouting is more visable on many fronts. If you Google only the NEWS area the results are even more pronounced. ...... Umm I see a trend...and it's positive!!! " While in that sense one can claim the glass is half full, This reflects a CONCERTED Public Relations by BSA. First, your search term "service" is BIG in the BSA phrase book which boosts counts immensely. BSA has a large PR firm on retainer which is pushing "good Turn for America" with countless press releases touting serv

I really am not happy to add ANOTHER listing, but it reinforces my point - BSA makes the news in bad ways far more often than other groups. Googled News - "Boys and Girls Clubs" "Big Brothers" "Boy Scouts" NO qualifiers. Nothing negative on first five pages for Big Brothers or Boys and Girls Clubs Under Boy Scouts first page, this pops up. NOT part of the search I did earlier (this incident is repeated multiple times). "Posted on Thu, Aug. 25, 2005 Los Altos scoutmaster held on molest charges OTHER POSSIBLE VICTIMS BEING SOUGHT By Elise Ackerman

You can't win with some people. He wants facts. Give him facts. Facts aren't right and I don't "understand" - did my post even get read? Yet no facts supporting a counter argument are provided. (Still waiting for responses on Williams salary.....I was wrong wrong wrong and did not understand. After finding out to my surprise I was LOW in my numbers and that this issue HAS come un in criticisms of non-profit leadership. BSA seems to be one of the worst offenders - as noted by others far more expert than I - in provided articles. But no facts refuted. ) Insulting your cr

"Simple answer. FOS supports the district, council, and national levels of Scouting. If there is no funding, your unit will get no support. Without that support, your unit is DEAD. " Really? I beg to differ. I postulate that a group of dedicated volunteers can run a "Scout" Unit with NO direct support from Council or even BSA National save a few readily available Scout books. The uniforms and all else are really not integral to "the program." Scouting survived underground in Nazi occupied Europe and even in Soviet controlled Eastern Europe for years. "Scouting" is a world-w

This is not an "attack" on BSA. It is a recap of facts that anyone else can see. Like it or not, this is what you find when looking at youth organizations. We should be wondering "Why?" You can't MAKE people join Scouting....but you sure can scare them away - and BSA is doing just that. This isn't "image" - these are serious issues. People regularly Google summer camps, education programs, vacation destinations. If I had no history in Scouting, I'd check. Someone noted that people will use any excuse not to give to FOS. Perhaps. But they will use these "excuses" not to join B

Got it now.... "Loyalty" comes first. So, "loyalty" should be unquestioning, preferrably absolute and takes precedence over all else. Anything less is unacceptable, almost traitorous. "Whoever is in Boy Scouts of America is not one among millions but one dedicated to an idea - Scouting. The individual member's value to the whole is determined by the degree to which he is permeated by the idea. The best Scout, irrespective of rank and office, is he who completely surrenders himself to the view of B.S.A." paraphrasing the awkwardly translated words from a speech by the head

regarding my reference above The original story did NOT give ages. The girl was described as an "Assistant Scoutmaster" - I thought "Venturing?" older kids.... I was hoping this was NOT what you'd expect....The thought crossed my mind that this could have been two older teens involved in consenual behavior - until caught. Additional facts reported below are more disturbing. What was a PAID Field Director - 24 years older than the 14 year old - doing with the girl at his house? Youth Protection rules???? There seems to be a real failure here..... Even if a family friend, thi

Not really a response to FB Should have split

"If a Scout Camp is sold and nobody is there to complain, has it really been sold? " Nobody ever joined BSA because a camp WASN'T there. Many have joined because one was. I had a friend who joined our Troop after hearing stories about our first summer at Scout Camp. My youngest couldn't wait to get into Cub Scouts to go to the same place his brother was going to Day Camp - the place we are now selling. Fewer and fewer members are the primary problem Scouting now faces - and a trend leadership has failed even to slow. BSA may have the unquestioning loyalty of some but it

From the "Camp Kilworth bites the dust" thread "This land is worth millions of dollars but, there's a catch, BSA doesn't own it. In this case, the deed stipulates that if the camp is not maintained and used by the "Tacoma area Boy Scouts", the ownership of the property will revert back to the Kilworth heirs. BSA can't sell the property because it doesn't own it. To get around this provision, the local council has struck a deal with a few representatives of the Kilworth family. BSA will give back the property if the Kilworths will cut them in for a major portion of the profits. They'

"Well this type of discussion always stinks, but I have a question. Jknhy you said that single male in a troop is a red flag. I myself am a bachelor scouter and have been an adult leader since my college years. Some of the parents were wary at first but soon warmed up when they see that the boys have someone they can look up to, and talk to as almost all of them have a mom or pop in the troop as committe or sm or and asm. In fact I've become a mentor to several of the boys. We have another bachelor scouter, also an eagle whos kids have long grown up and he has returned to scouting to help the

From above: "So rather than complain or worry over what you cannot control why not focus on what you can? Learn the actual program, deliver it as it is designed, keep the promise of scouting. That is the responsibility of a unit volunteer. " So, finding it impossible to change anything I should not complain or worry, I should simply "go along and do my job" feeling confident that in serving the cause of Scouting in my responsibilities as a mere unit volunteer I am serving the higher good of Scouting? I should put my own individual concerns aside and serve loyally?" From f

this seems like an amazing amount of discussion over semantics. Can the boy swim well enough NOT to drown if he's iin water deep enough not to touch bottom?

I was actually surprised to see a report of heterosexual abuse - of an older assistant Scoutmaster (female?) by another leader Not meaning to be flippant but as posted elsewhere; Pedophilia is the gorilla in the room nobody wants to talk about It has not been addressed adequately and Idaho makes that clear. THAT made it to the light of day. I have heard too many cases where the same old "Leave Quietly" approach has been used and abuse NOT reported by volunteer and professionals in Scouting (in violation of YP and the law). There are many places to lay blame - including p

A test Google "Boy's and Girl's Clubs" and "fraud" then with "abuse" then "scandal" not much- more stories about funding cuts than anything else Google "Little League" and "fraud" then "abuse" then "scandal" Overage kid - we all know that story....checking for steroids (there too?) Google "4H" and "fraud" then "abuse" then "scandal" One "scandal" - a kid didn't actually the animal they showed and articles on "showring cheating" - making animals look better (big issue in livestock fairs) The first few pages for all of these showed little to show real malfeasnace or

Well worded Madkins007 Now if those are only possible fallouts in a WELL RUN local Scouting program, what do you think is happening right now in Atlanta, Chicago, Alabama, Idaho and others - the places making the news? Our Council hasn't hit that level of publicity (it may yet) but, out of a dozen great properties and camps we're down to 3 and one of those is up for sale. Volunteers fought that sale in court and lost on technicalities. Any "dissidents" opposing that sale have been removed from District and Council positions replaced in name only. Senior volunteers wrote to Na

just don't Google Boy Scout AND abuse under NEWS - it gets depressing though at least we're seeing heterosexual abuse now.....