Jeffrey H

In our district, we have an early registration with a discount about one month before camp and a hard deadline about one week before camp. Its clearly communicated to scouts and leaders that too many late registrations and walk-ups make it very difficult to plan a quality Camp. We are also warned that walk-ups run the risk of not being able to get into camp if there are not enough adults to cover the campers Ive never seen this happen, but the warning itself seems to serve as strong incentive to sign-up before by deadline.

In short, we had a good response for early registration this year with a minimal number of walk-ups. Most of the walk-ups were newly registered Cubs.

Its good to have a tradition in your Pack that dictates when Crossover will occur. In our Pack, crossover occurs in February during our Blue & Gold banquet. Thats our tradition and it works well for us and it keeps the boys together as a den. We dont waver from this tradition.

That being said, there is nothing we can do if a boy wants to move on to Boy Scouts and meets the minimum age/grade requirements. Still, I would discourage your Webelos from crossing over now. Two reasons: 1) They are too young and its better to wait until they get closer to 11 years of age. 2) It breaks up the Web 2 den and leaves behind those boys that enjoyed the friendship.

We use it and it gives the boys a feeling of responsibility to the den. They enjoy it and usually rise to the occassion. They tend to understand that they need to set a good example and that improves their attitudes. We primarily use our denners to open the den meetings with the pledge of allegiance, cub promise, etc.

Dining Hall. It's a nice break from the normal camp routine.

Rats!

I just spent a chunk of money on the current-style shorts and pants and now we're changing. By the way, the current style pants work just fine for outdoors (at least for me). They have a comfortable relaxed fit and have plenty of hiking room. The trick is to buy them in the right size. I know this sounds logical, but I see so many men wear pants 2 sizes too small (guts hanging over) and then they complain that they don't like the pants.

Why is it that most of the packs and troops in my area decided not to wear the full uniform?

Its been said before and I agree:  Tradition is the biggest reason.  The parents will look to see what the others are wearing and go with that.  Sometimes they will avoid full uniform just so their son will not stand out.  Adult Leaders are just as guilty.  They will wear what the other leaders are wearing.  The Scoutmaster/Cubmaster will set the tone regarding uniforming.  If he/she is partially uniformed, then the others will follow.

Cost does play a big role but is not always the biggest reason.  If costs are a real burden for the boys in your Pack, then start up a uniform closet.  Our Pack has one.  Go to thrift stores and find some fantastic bargains on uniforms shirt and pants.  Weve been able to buy shirts and pants for $2.00 to $3.00 a piece in great condition No Joke.

Show me one society where homosexuality is considered moral and normal.

Its been around since the beginning of time, throughout various points of history, and has been considered normal and natural in various cultures including ancient Rome, ancient Greece, and todays Western Europe.  But what is often considered normal and natural is not really natural.  Even if we put aside the moral arguments, the act of homosexuality is not natural.  I dont think I need to go into detail of why its not natural.  The descriptions would not be appropriate for this forum.

Lisabob & Narritacong,

Good ideas and thanks very much. A little background

We have an active Pack program that would not bore most 4th & 5th graders, but the problem is the culture our Pack has created for the Webelos. Over the years, theres been an unwritten rule that the Webelos are excused from most Pack activities/events because they are too busy with their get ready for Boy Scout stuff. Im not saying thats right, just the way its been. Well, thats changing this year because we are giving the Webelos more responsibilities at Pack meetings and Pack events. Were still going through a rebuilding program since the Pack went through 2 years of weak Cubmaster leadership with poor planning and poor preparation. We just finished our 1st year with a fun, enthusiastic, and VERY organized Cubmaster who wants to continue in his role for another 3 years. Things are looking positive.

We dont expect everything to change the first year because our Web 2 den leader is beholden to the old culture and not a big participant in Pack activities and not responsive to the requests of our Cubmaster. Our Web 1 leader, however, is very engaged with Pack activities and shows up for most events. The Web 1 leader will set the new precedent for Webelos in the Pack.

Webelos helping with younger Cubs is fine idea, but we just recruited some den chiefs to help out and we need to keep them busy.

Happy Cubbing,

Jeff

Quote by SaintCad (post #1):

Sarcasm aside, what is the current rationale for eliminating homosexuals from BSA?

Quote by Babanon (post #2):

What I see as the sad fact of the matter is the literal interpretation of the bible. At best the Christian bible is allegory and in no way should it be taken as literal truth.

Bobanon,

So, your opinion on the Bible is correct?  Many scouters, such as myself, regard the Bible as the Word of God and consider it fully reliable in matters of faith and practice.  It should be interpreted either symbolically or literally, depending on the historical context. 

The matter of homosexuality, fornication, and adultery are condemned in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.  It is still part of Gods moral law and not something that has passed away into antiquity.  I would even go far to say that a Scoutmaster who is actively engaged in adultery against his wife is no longer fit to be an SM.  An SM who cheats on his wife does not set the example of one who is Trustworthy and Loyal and other points of the Scout Law.  So, you see, sexual morality goes way beyond just same-sex issues.  

SaintCad and Babanon,

I respect your views and beliefs, but keep in mind that the BSAs policy against avowed homosexual leaders and members is not an arbitrary position, but grounded in the Judeo-Christian beliefs held by many of its members.  Granted, not all members are Jews and Christians, but even those that are not accept this as a good moral position to take. 

"In the interim, don't forget the Webs are the example to the rest of the PACK. They may be eager to become full fledged Boy Scouts, but they are the Leaders of the Pack! Make sure they stay for the duration (and have opportunities to teach and demonstrate to the younger Cubs)."

Good thoughts and ideas, but it seems there is so much emphasis put on the Webelos to be Boy Scouts that we forget that they are still Cub Scouts.  In our Pack, the Webelos are so focused with their own den program and den campouts that they rarely come to Pack-wide outings and events.  They attend the monthly Pack meetings, but thats about it.  The younger Cubs never get to interact with them and never see them in action. 

How do you balance the two dynamics?  Webs are transitioning Boy Scouts, but they are still Cubs in the Pack.

When the Webs Bridge over too early, good for them, but bad for the Pack.

What about those Webs who turn 11 early in the fifth grade? (Sept or Oct?)  It seems to me that they need to crossover immediately as they have already aged out of Cubs and meet the age requirement for Boy Scouts.  Even if they did not want to crossover until the Spring, do they really have a choice?   

"Back in the stone age, we used to believe BSA was about building men. Some of us dinosaurs still do."

Excellent point.  After all, character development and the 12 core values are a part of the Cub program.

Let me say that this is the nicest, most polite forum that I've witnessed. Yes, sometimes folks forget their better manners, but for the most part people here try to be helpful.

I recommend, however, that you stay away from the "Issues & Politics" forum. That's a pretty negative place and a waste of my time.

If you want to invite the whole camp and youre paying for it, go for it. No one is going to turn down free ice cream. However, dont be disappointed if the other 150 campers don't share in your excitement about your feelings for your Webelo Scout.

If it were me, I would have a party/celebration just among the Den members. These are his friends and the ones he has shared his Scouting experience with. The 150 campers are just faces that want free ice cream.

Best wishes and thanks for your work in Scouting.

In the old days an OA candidate may have had his shirt opened (or removed) and a red arrow painted on his chest, using oil paint. It could easily be removed. But this apparently caused enough embarrassment and enough humiliation to enough scouts that it is no longer done. Same with the three hard blows to the shoulder.  If a scout today purposefully caused bruising on another childs body, it would be big trouble

When I was called-out in the OA (1976), all Scouts went to the ceremony with their shirts already removed.  This was not an option; it was required.  I dont recall any embarrassment by the Scouts or any complaining that we had to be bare-chested.  The three hard blows to the shoulders were nothing compared to the thrill of being selected to the OA.  It was an honor and we stood up to it.  The blows to the shoulders were really slaps and stung a little bit but there was no harm done.  Bruising?  The slaps left some temporary red marks but no one complained; it was badge of honor.  Regardless of your opinion, we did not consider this hazing but a well regarded, well-controlled, safe, and traditional OA ceremony in 1976.  Everyone had a great time and had good memories.

Yes, today is different.  Its a day of frivolous lawsuits.  I highly suspect this is why the above OA ceremony is no longer done. 

"I was surprised that they recommended any kind of activity that involved singling out the new scouts and having them do something different than the others. To me this is still hazing, which I thought was strictly against BSA rules, yet here it was being advocated in Boys Life. Did anyone else see this column and am I out of line in my thinking?"

I read the column and I did not see any promotion of hazing by the columnists.  There will always be initiations for new scouts at the troop-levels.  They can be fun with good memories.  The line is crossed into hazing as anything that causes physical harm to the boy, humiliates the modesty of the boy in front of others, or violates Youth Protection guidelines is not acceptable.

When I was tapped-out (called-out) at an OA ceremony in 1976, the three hard slaps I received on my bare shoulders would be considered hazing by todays politically correct standards.  However, those of us who remember these type of OA ceremonies know better.  Minor  bruises appeared on my shoulders but this was considered a badge of honor for those of us selected to be in the OA.  No one got hurt and no one complained.  Good memories.

 "My son earned his eagle the honest way last year but had to stand up next to 2 others who had not been active in our troop for more then 2 years prior to making their Eagle. It is hard to explain to some scouts and their parents why this keeps happening."

Explain to them that a Scout can be registered with a troop without attending meetings or going on campouts/outings.  It does not seem logical, but according to the requirements for Eagle, they are only required to be active with the Troop for 6 months as Life Scouts and, as Life Scouts, they are required to serve a period of 6 months in a position of troop/varsity/venturing leadership.  Were they doing any "active" service for the troop in the background?

Boy Scout troop: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor.

Varsity Scout team: Captain, co-captain, program manager, squad leader, team secretary, Order of the Arrow representative, librarian, historian, quartermaster, chaplain aide, instructor, den chief.

Venturing Crew / Sea Scout Ship: President, vice-president, secretary, treasurer, boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, storekeeper.

Besides the Order of the Arrow, are there any other "honor societies" in the BSA? Just wondering. I've been out of the BSA for a long time and just came back as an adult leader.

"By the same token, I would not count day camp or resident camp. That's not really a "pack" activity, the pack didn't schedule it and doesn't run it."

Our Pack counts day camps and resident camps as planned summertime events for the Pack.  The whole idea of the the Summertime Award is to bring your Pack together at least 3 times during the summer vacation and Day Camps are perfect and fun way to do that.

Check with your coucil.  There is no prohibition in our council to include Day & Resident Camps.

"But if some guy or gal new to him were to ask him the cub scout motto I am not sure he could get it out."

This can happen and has happened to me as a Den leader.  The boys earn their Bobcat because they were able to recite the cub scout promise at a certain point in time.  However, they can forget parts of it soon after earning the Bobcat.  One thing I started doing is have the boys recite the promise at every den meeting so "practice makes perfect".  Repitition will make it stick. 

If the paperwork is in order and everything is signed-off by troop leadership, the boy has his Eagle. He will have his Eagle but he will not enjoy his Eagle rank the way other scouts enjoy theirs. He will have no sense of accomplishment nor will he have learned any lessons about the value of real work to reach a goal.

The scoutmaster "Dad" has taught his son and other scouts that dishonesty is acceptable if it serves as a means to the end. SAD.

Dozy,

I appreciate your comments. I agree with you that BOR's should not be intimidating and the Boys Scouts is not the military (and never should be).

I'm ignorant of BOR procedure and protocol? Can the SM and ASM sit in on the BOR's? After all, you know the boys and what they are capable of. It seems to me a good BOR would have a mix of those who work with the boys directly and those who don't know them as well.

--Jeff

I cannot make a judgment about this BOR, but I offer this general comment.

If the Scout made a poor presentation of himself before the BOR, then his leadership and maturity will come into question. Im not an SM or ASM, but as an assistant cubmaster I speak with boy scouts often and Ive noticed some things they can improve on:

Look the person in the eyes when you are talking to them.

Look the person in the eyes when they are talking to you.

Speak clearly and dont mumble.

These are fundamental qualities of someone who has courtesy and respect toward others. Lack of these qualities leaves a negative impression when being evaluated for rank advancement, especially at the higher ranks.

Delaying an advancement for a month or two can be a good thing and a lesson for life.

There will always be gray areas and sometimes folks will get offended even with a "Rated G" skit. This skit does not sound "Rated G". Scouts acting "Gay" is not funny to me. There is nothing funny about imitating thosewhose ranks are filled withpedophiles.

QUOTE BY EAGLE FOOT: "When mentioned to the staff they just laughed...and brushed it off. The values I have learned in Scouting are not of this kind of kinky behavior. When the district talks now...it's gone a be...talk to the hand...practice what you preach."

Here is theprimary problem. A complaint by a sincere Scout Leader was "brushed off" by camp staff. BIG MISTAKE. Don't bite the hand of thosewho love and care about Scouting, especially those who desire to acutallypractice the Scout Oath & Law.

"I have personally encountered some in my home council who use a tapemeasure during a uniform inspection..."

That is a silly over-the-top procedure that does not add any value to the scouting experience.  This is the boy scouts, not the military.  The guiding principle behind unifom inspections is "neatness" in overall appearance (Cub Leaders Manual).  I only mention something to the Scout if the patch is not on the proper pocket or sleeve or not in the proper order. 

The leaders in my district do not like to merge units simply because they want to give the struggling unit every opportunity possible to rebuild. I can understand that position because Ive heard many success stories of dying units that came back to life. No district leader wants to be accused of being impatient and pulling the plug too early. All it takes is one person to step up who has a little bit of motivation. A little bit of motivation with a plan can go a long way.