Jeffrey H

So far, I'm the only one who is BALOO trained in my Pack. We used to have none.

I agree with everyone. The G2SS says you must have a BALOO adult at the campsite.

I was once advised with this comment: If the campout is already underway and you cannot cancel the campout from a practical standpoint (you cant force people to leave), you can declare the campout as NO LONGER an officially sanctioned BSA outing. You have to make sure everyone understands this and if choose to continue camping, they are personally liable for their Scouts injuries.

A Hypothetical Event

Your Pack committee and leaders have spent a solid month planning the next Pack Campout. Reservations have been made for a record turn-out, the agenda is planned, food is bought, etc., You have a contingency agenda in case it rains. Guide to Safe Scouting has been reviewed and your BALOO trained adult will be attending. As far as anyone is concerned, only a severe weather event will cancel this campout.

Scenario #1 - On the morning of departure, your Packs only BALOO trained adult becomes ill and cannot attend. Many folks are already in route to the campsite or have already arrived. What do you do?

Scenario #2 During the campout, your Packs only BALOO trained adult must leave the camp due to an emergency. What do you do?

ScoutNut:

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of G2SS for Webelos. Leaders can be parent-approved. An attending parent/guardian is not required, only recommended. Personally, I would go with the recommendation. I would take as many parents as possible on a Webelos campout.

I'm not fooling anyone. As I said before, "Keep it above the radar" which means don't fool anyone. File a Tour Permit, take a BALOO leader, and follow G2SS for each Scout in his age category. When you have a variety of age groups attending the campout, it's a "Pack Campout" and The Tour Permit should reflect that.

It's really not that hard. Our Pack has addressed this issue time and again with our UC, DE, and Council. Each time they have told us that "Family Camping" is fine as long as each Tiger/Wolf/Bear are superivised by their parent or guardian.

That's a novel approach. Can a Wolf den go camping if they call it a "pack campout", and forget to invite the rest of the pack?

No.  Tiger/Wolf/Bear Den camping as a "Den" is not allowed.  Bears can go camping as long as Daddy or Mommy is there.  We do this all the time in our Pack. 

My point to the original post is to follow G2SS based on Bears and Webelos.  Keep things above the radar, fill out a Tour Permit, and get a BALOO person to come along.

The shorter version:

A Webelos Scout can go camping without a parent/guardian as long as he is under the supervision of at least 2 registered scout leaders that are youth protection trained. Of course, you will need a permission slip from the parents before he attends the campout.

Bears can go on a Pack Campout as long as they are under the supervision of their parent/guardian (no exceptions).

Since Bears are attending this campout, designate your campout as a "Pack Campout", fill out a Tour Permit, and have a BALOO trained adult go with you. Better yet, get yourself BALOO trained and you eliminate that administrative problem.

In our District, you must use the nails, wheels, and block that comes in PW Derby car kit. No exceptions. If you dont use the pre-drilled axle slots, the wheels still must be same length and width from each other. We basically follow the rules that come in the box so the cars will not have any problem running on the tracks.

I do know that people don't like walking in the door and having a cue card shoved in their hand while being told/asked, "Wanna be a part of tonight's skit?" There is usually no costumes, no props, no rehersal, just a bunch of adults reading off of cards. How exciting, NOT! I've even noticed when that is the norm, people will intentionally show up late so they hopefully avoid the cue card assignments.

Been there several times.    I dont care for surprises, but when this happens to me, I try to make an effort to do more than just read the card because I know how boring that is to the audience and participants.  Dont worry about being a little silly in front of the adultsyou might be surprised how they react.  This is for the Cubs, not for us.  A little animated emotion with some drama is much better than reading cards with stoic looks on our faces.

If youre an RT commissioner or committee member, encourage those you volunteer with a little instruction/coaching on what you would like to see in your Skit.  Encourage play acting and not just read the cards.  It will liven things up and make it much more enjoyable for all.

I concur with the others. For the Wolf badge, you cannot count unused portions of achievements as electives.

That's nice that your Pack paid for your Woodbadge course. I would strongly consider doing it at one of your Pack meetings. This way, the parents, scouts, and other leaders in your Pack can witness first hand something they helped you achieve. You will also have an opportunity to thank them personally at the time you receive your beads.

Congratulations and enjoy your day!!

P.S. - I will be taking Woodbadge this year and looking forward it. I have never attented a beading ceremony, so take my above advice for what it's worth.

G2SS is a guide that covers areas of common interest in Scouting. It's not a comprehensive manual on everything we need to know to be safe in every condition we face. On those subjects where it does not go into detail, it serves as a reminder to leaders to consider the risks, get educated about it, and be prepared.

No one knows every chapter and verse of G2SS unless they have too much time on their hands. All one needs to do is know enough for the outing they are getting ready for.

Troop 2 is the "fun troop" to be a part of, but I don't care for the arrogant attitude their leaders have toward G2SS. Troop 1 is doing a good job, but they are following a somewhat standarized program without much creativity.

Troop 2 needs to get on board with G2SS or they will find themselves in serious trouble. Diregarding the rules sets a poor example for the Scouts. Why should the leaders expect the Scouts to follow their rules when the leaders can't even submit to basic safety guidelines of the BSA.

Our unit has occassionally broken G2SS rules out of ignorance, but we try to follow G2SS in good faith. When we catch our error, we correct it immediately. We would only ignore G2SS in the case of an emergency when following G2SS would not make sense.

I've seen this whole gift thing cause issues with others who provide substantial service to the whole pack yet get no gift and little mention. The Committee Chair, Advancement Chair, Outings Chair and so forth work just as hard all year long. So I would think that if a few active people are leaving the gifts should be consumate with the effort involved. Excellent point and we should remember those folks.  We have to remember that a Cubmaster, by default, will receive more gifts from the Scouts than committee members because he interfaces frequently with the Scouts and relationships are built.  We also like to recognize and reward those who are willing to step into a volunteer job that is difficult to fill.  Committee positions are easier to fill than Cubmaster.  If you don't have a Cubmaster, you don't have a Pack. 

That said, a good Cubmaster will make sure that the Committee Chair and committee members are recognized for their service.  On the other hand, good committee members will make sure the Cubmaster is adequately recognized.

In our Pack, our Cubmaster is the hardest worker and there is never a question of whether the gifts he receives are "consumate with the effort involved."   

Definitely use an electronic timing system, especially if your Derby is very competitive with close finishes. In our races last year, it would have been impossible to determine the winner just by "eyeballing" the finish line. The top 5 finishers were within 1/10 of 1 second from each other. The top 3 were within 1/100.

Our Pack pays a guy $60 to bring his track and electronic timer with record keeping. It's worth the cost.

Moral is give only to endowments with clear and highly restrictive conditions. Even better if the endowment is controlled by a separate board, like the local community foundation.

I agree.  Also, a donor can request that the endowment be returned to him/her if it is not used according to it's agreed-upon purpose. 

Nice photos. I like the full-looking neckerchiefs. Regarding Fords shirt color, I suspect its a variation in dye color. Even today, my 100% cotton shirt is a darker shade of Khaki that my cotton/poly shirt.

Yes, there is too much ornamentation on todays uniforms, but thats another topic.

We have more trained leaders than ever before

Brian,

We have leaders with more Trained patches on their uniforms, but real training is on-the-job with a long-term commitment over the course of many years.       

I believe the decline is attributed to a lack of interest by the parents to make that long-term commitment.  As one poster mentioned earlier, boys enjoy Scout stuff with or without uniforms, but the parents are a harder sell.  Im currently witnessing a Pack fail before my eyes because no one will step up and be Cubmaster.  Its not the boys fault, it requires ADULTS to make the program go. 

Please share with us what you do to help make your unit succeed in the midst of declining membership.  Im personally committed to Scouting for many years to come and I want to make it fun and meaningful for the boys. 

Thanks,

Jeff

None the less I understand your point that people feel they have already contributed by supporting the popcorn sales.

I agree with this sentiment.  FOS is optional and no one should feel guilty if they elect not to participate especially if they have worn their soles out selling popcorn.  Councils budgets depend on the revenue stream of FOS just like popcorn sales.  With that, we can expect the same fundraising campaigns every year.

We had one Cub Scout sell $803 of popcorn.  Our council's 40% cut is $321 of his sales.  This young man and his family contributed much more to our council from popcorn than I did through FOS alone.  As far as this family is concerned, this Cub Scout has paid his FOS of $120 plus an extra $201 bonus to the Council.  Now, our Council may not see it this way, but the family sure does. 

I give to FOS because I don't sell alot of Popcorn and I want to give at least something directly back to the Council. 

"Last year, the amount was $125, but when I wrote the check I accidentally made it out for $120. I was hounded like a dog over that $5. I received two notices in the mail. My wife was incredulous and forbid me to pay the $5 on priciple. Then I started getting phone calls from the Council finance director."

Sad and funny at the same time.  What makes your experience so ridiculous it that it likely cost your council more than $5 in labor cost and postage just to collect the $5.  This is a classic example of cost exceeding the benefit.  This is all about meeting sales goals and appearing successful with a complete disregard for expense control.  Maybe FOS would not be so high if administrative expenses were better managed.

It's interesting that the Council Finance Director has time to make a phone call over $5.

Yes, I think they do look at socio-economic levels to determine how much they can expect to receive. Our council claims that it cost $120 per year to fund each Scout. With that, they ask for an annual contribution of $120 or $10 a month. As a "carrot", They usually throw in a gift if you give the minimum suggested donation. Most folks, like myself, do the monthly gift. They don't ask anyone if they can afford it, they just go ahead and ask, make their sales-pitch, and see what happens.

Our council no longer depends on or receives large donations from United Way. Those days are gone and more emphasis is shouldered on FOS to fund quality Scouting programs.

F2c,

The SM may not have contacted you because the ASM position became filled by one of the parents in the Troop that the SM already knows. Thats a guess, but a likely scenario. In any case, he should have contacted you as a courtesy.

Contact a unit directly and introduce yourself to the Scoutmaster. Ask him if you can come to the next meeting and discuss volunteer opportunities. Be patient. Most often, leadership in units are stacked with adults that have sons in their units and they may be a little cautious with you at first. A little caution is always a good thing when evaluating any adult for Troop leadership. Once they get to know you and the quality contribution you can bring to unit, you will be on board.

Ask if you can serve on the Troop committee to get your feet wet and spend some time cultivating friendships in the Troop and understanding BSA policies. If they need an ASM, they will certainly offer that position to you at the proper time.

It's refreshing to see someone like yourself willing to volunteer that does not have a "son" as a prime motivator. Best wishes to you.

"The Girl Scouts recently discovered that it needs to be more relevant to today's girls. But true to the scout promise ("help people at all times"), the nearly century-old group is adjusting to the new times."

It seems to me that the GSUSA has alwaystried to be "relevant". This is not news.

The GSUSA is not popular in our community due to their increasingly liberal policies. The GSUSA appears to me to be a confused organization that is not clear on what they stand for. Because of this, Im not interested in my young daughter joiningthe organization. Being relevant sounds great, but it is not always the best direction.

Our Pack meetings are scheduled for one hour. Spicing up the meetings? Delegate portions of the Pack meeting to the Dens and let them participate and have responsibilities in the meeting. Every den has a job to do and they take an ownership and interest in the Pack meeting. Our Pack meeting assignments typically look like this:

Set-up chairs: Den 1

Game or Activity: Den 2

Flag ceremony: Den 3

Skit, Songs, or Jokes: Den 4

Awards: Den Leaders and/or Cubmaster

Clean-up: Den 5

Refreshments: Den 6

Every month we rotate responsibilities. We dont hold to the monthly program theme if it does not work for us.

Falling asleep during the awards? If there are many awards to give out, spread out the awards during the course of the meeting and not all at once.

"Don't make it optional. Let your families know that they are REQUIRED to run a week/month/whatever of meetings (depending on the number of families). The den & go-see-it requirements are pretty much laid out for them. If they need more help, YOU, the DEN LEADER, should be available to give them assistance..."

The problem with shared adult-partner leadership is that is does not always work. That's why we have "Tiger Den Leaders" to make sure the Dens do not fall apart.  It's best not to force an adult partner to run a meeting or an activity when their "heart" is not in it.  For some parents, just registering with the BSA is traumatic enough.  You have to be flexible or you could lose them and their boys for good.  Give these parents "little" jobs, but no more.

As a Tiger Den Leader, identify those adult partners that are enthusiastic to be your "assistants" and work with them.  Don't hand over the Tiger Den to a grumpy mom or dad that will not follow through when it's their turn to run a meeting or an activity. 

I direct you to the Cub Scout Leader Book - let it answer the question for you. pg. 12-11, How To Wear The Uniform. "Uniform parts should not be worn separately or with civilian clothing. The entire uniform should be worn or not at all. The pack does not have the authority to make changes to the uniform." Same page, under How To Uniform Your Pack. "Remember that uniforms identify boys and leaders as members of the BSA. Make sure that they wear the full and correct uniform."

Yes, these are the official rules and I follow them as an adult leader.  However, these are policy guidelines and not law.  The policy is good and gives us guidance, however I have yet to witness or hear of any unit losing their charter because they did not follow the written policy.

As leaders, we should set the example and show grace to those that are little behind on the uniform policy.  Encourage but do not force.  There is no requirement in the BSA that one must wear the uniform to be a member.

Thanks for the advice. I personally would rather deal with my UC than the DE. The DE is a nice guy, but as a professional he is distracted by other issues and a different set of goals.

It does make sense that we should call on our UC because he/she has been assigned to our specific unit. Fortunately, we have a new UC that seems to be truly "engaged" and available for help.