IM_Kathy

the real question would be what does your own scout think is pushing?

I wouldn't say I was pushy at all, but I'm not sure what my son would say. The only time I really mentioned it was when he recently made Life rank, I looked and said "hey if you do want to keep up the great work and reach Eagle then all you need to do is _________ (mostly just the rest of his eagle required merit badges)" He looked at those and then asked when he should do them. He just started FR. year, but he has a very early birthday so he'll be 15 within a week... and he's in an accelerated math/science program which will make is SO. year a tad insane... so I suggested that he do 1 at a time this year and would probably be finished with them by the time his "insane" year starts and then he'd be able to focus on his project

otherwise I don't think I've ever brought up the word "eagle" - instead I'll discuss merit badges. Which badge are you working on? who are you working with? etc...

it's NOT just women...

our son was on a campout this past weekend and while the weather forcast said it would be cool, it said that it would rain only over night. well, it started raining over night and didn't stop until well past noon the next day during all the activities.

it was hubby that was worried... my response was that he's camped enough to know to check the weather and pack for the worst possible weather, he's been in rain before to know that if you only have 1 change of clothes to wait until bedtime to change so you can sleep nice and dry.

yep, when son got home he did take his poncho, he did pack plenty of warm clothes, and just looked at his father and shook his head in disappointment that his father would even worry.

my son's previous troop had a Scout who was disabled... his dad always attended to help with getting in and out of wheel chair. to get around the actual camp from merit badge to merit badge etc, they brought up their golf cart and it worked very well... now and then they would have to go a whole different way to get places - like to the lake front they had to go up to the road and then take the access road down to it, but with the golf cart he was able to get his son to the activities within the time allowed. Didn't have any issues with others wanting to take it for a spin - everyone knew and understood that it was needed for this scout to participate. They did get approval from the camp first though.

#1 I can totally understand - I know there are times when I've had a scout working on MB with me and something will come up with my unit position that I need to deal with and have to postpone our MB chat to the next meeting... and family/work things will come about.

#2 I'm going to assume that at the time Johnny wanted to do that badge this person wasn't registered. I know we recently had adults add in those centenial MB. So now he knows of another councilor and knows the MBC is working with others on X dates. I can understand that one.

#3 While there is no rule about not having parent as a MBC I prefer to not be the MBC for my son unless we don't have anyone else nearby. I'm the only Swimming, Lifesaving, and Astronomy councilor in our troop... I made my son take them at summer camp and then finish off his partial with me. The main reason is I know I'm actually tougher on my own kid even though I know I shouldn't be, and I also know others might think I'm being easier on him. But the 1 thing I would've said to the father is the fact that he's still welcome to work with his son - just that you'd like him to work with this MBC as well because ___________.... there are a lot of MB's were a scout needs to do some at home learning or get some extra help learning knots or such and that he can work with those at home with his dad and then demonstrate his skill to the MBC for sign-off. Also mention that with MB they still have to have a buddy and if there is no other scout working on that badge that the parent could be the buddy and this would allow the scout the ability to learn from 2 people. And one thing I've learned through my years with working with kids is that you can word the exact same thing to 2 boys and 1 will get it and the other won't and you have to tailor to the person you are working with.

of course all of that I wouldn't have said until I said "I'm sorry, but I will not listen to someone who is yelling and screaming at me... when you have calmed down and are able to carry on a proper converstion please call me and I'd be happy to discuss this with you"

perdidochas - those bic lights now have that safty guard on top to keep little kids from getting them to light... if you take a plyers and pull that off your lighter will dry much quicker if it gets wet!

I've seen fire piston's - I've never used one. My scouts (the ones I had as Cubbies) learned with matches and didn't get to use a lighter (except for the stoves) until they could use a flint.

my sons troop has been pretty much same age patrols (although a few mixed up but just 1 year)... this worked great from when the troop first started some 9 years ago, but what we are experiencing now is that as the boys have aged we have some patrols with fewer members attending campouts regularly and are having to merge patrols so that we don't have just 2 boys in a couple of patrols...

because of this the real leadership and bonding is just not there so the PLC is looking at changing it up to a mix of the "old school" and "new school" methods...

what has been passed on to me (my son was SPL and is now ASPL) is that in the winter with our new cross overs is when they will make the changes with mixing all current scouts into 4 patrols of mixed ages... the new scouts will spend 1 year in a new scout patrol with troop guides basically being their patrol leaders but rotating through the new boys so they each get their feet wet with leadership on campouts. Then the next winter those new scouts would split into the other patrols and we'd start again with a new scout patrol.

what I'm hearing is positive because the boys are really looking into what they like and don't like about both styles and trying to come up with something that works well for our troop. We have boys coming from 2 school districts (plus some home-schooled) and within those school disctricts we have 3 packs... so having that 1 year with the new boys all together does give them all a good chance to meld together and with the others in the troop.

while my son was a cubbie the pack we were with did not purchase any of the belt loops. They could do them, and den leaders could present them to their scouts - but they were paid for either by den dues (if the den chose to do it that way) or paid for by their parents. All the parents in our den decided to not purchase the belt loops due to the cost and ease of earning. As webelos the boys did do work where they would've gotten belt loops - that work just went toward their webelos activity pin.

after my son became a boy scout he went back and worked as a den chief and the pack had a new CM... they got the belt loop's up and going and he saw boys earning all sorts of loops - he even helped them earn one, and after that he said those were way too easy to earn. I'm friends with a DL that was with the pack back when my son was a cub and there now and says the pack is now running low on funds and is uping registration fews just to cover the cost of belt loops. After enough complaints about the raise in cost the pack changed it so the registrion is X if you do not want your son to recieve belt loops and X+ if you do - which basically returned it back to where it was before except the loops are awarded at pack meetings rather than den meetings and so boys are in away singled out if they don't get belt loops. Needless to say my friend can't wait until this winter when her youngest gets his AOL and crosses over.

we have boys and adults in this area that wear long sleeve shirt or sweatshirt underneath their uniform a lot during the winter months. We require uniforms when traveling to and from camping trips and if stops are made during a trip the boys unzip their coat while inside buildings. The biggest thing is when we get to our destination and they remove their uniform or change clothes they have their base layer underneath and aren't totally exposed (and only change their base layer if it gets wet or sweaty)

the troop my son started with was discussing doing this sort of thing, but as all things with that troop it got cancelled along with 1/2 dozen other campouts (big reason he found a new troop)

anyway... as soon as he heard about this he got out his mess kit and practiced cooking all sorts of different meals out at our grill just to see what would work and not work. For example while he could make spaghetti on the grill he realized he did spill a bit too much water in the process and that with a cook fire that would NOT be a good idea. He ended up with a whole bunch of meals he'd be able to pull off. I keep hoping he'd bring this idea up to the PLC with his new troop, but he hasn't. But then his cooking ability is heads and tails above most in his troop and prefers working with full sized pots and pans and of course his patrol likes this as well, especially now that he's not SPL and therefore can be patrol cook again.

we haven't had a burn ban for so many years here that when the boys are working on their rank work and talk about when to use a stove or fire for cooking they look at me funny when I mention burn bans.

however, we do have another issue around here that is leading some parks to banning campfires and that is insects. I forget which darn bug it is this time, but our upcoming camporee is being held in a campground where we can't bring in any fire wood. We can still cook with charcoal and stoves. Normally this is only an issue if we cross state lines. We helped a troop that camped near us one time that came from a neighboring state and was heading out for wood.

Best advice I have is to contact the park rangers and find out exactly what is banned and what is allowed.

if they banned tattoos I'd miss out on the yearly "are those real" question every year when I do swim tests and the boys see me in my swimsuit rather than in uniform where they are covered. I have 3 tattoos and I'm not getting rid of them! Thankfully they are appropriate for viewing, if they weren't then I'd cover them up while around scouts.

I would be more apt to find out why boys/parents are not supporting the popcorn sales like other boys/parents in the troop/pack are...

around here some places of business allow sales and some don't. one of our scouts sells tons at his dad's work. another scout their parent's work doesn't allow it so that means he has to find other ways to sell.

my son sold popcorn every year until this past year. Our council changed the company they used or the company made changes, but the sizes went down and prices went up and the favorite kind most people bought wasn't available any more.

So, once you find the reasons why sales are down - figure out how to bring them up. Booths? a different fundraiser?

when my son stopped selling popcorn I asked him what he was going to do to support the troop and the council... he participates in our 3 other fundraisers and makes a donation to friends of scouting to make up the difference... to me that was fair, and so allowed him to make that choice.

But it wouldn't be fair to keep that against his patrol in some sort of patrol compition - unless of course all we did was the popcorn or we incorporated the other fundraisers.

NJCubScouter - you made me remember one of our campouts... I am not the only adult smoker in the troop, but because of non-scout activities a few of the scouts know (obviously my own does)... but at the end of one of our campouts we gathered at the parking lot for our Thorns and Roses endings and some idiot (not me) dumped their entire ashtray right there in the parking lot. My son and another boy that knows I smoke looked at me, and I simply said not mine... well another boy piped up and said how could they be her's she's been with us the whole weekend and hasn't smoked. HAH! I'd smoke almost a pack that weekend! So yes you can hide and keep boys from having any clue!

As to all that would say "just quit"... for me at this time it is not an option. I have other medical diagnosis that require medications that if I were to quit smoking would mean that I would have to be under doctors care and would have to continually adjust doses and possibly would require to adjust one to a point where I would not be able to function at an acceptable level. So until I'm able to go 2 months without having to take any extra doses of medications, my doctor will not even allow me to attempt to quit. And the longest I've ever been able to go without those extra doses has only been 1 week and that was a week where I was sick and stuck at home the whole week.

Due to the smoking and other medical conditions: no I'm not able to hike 8+ miles, no I'm not able to sit in a room packed full of people, and a whole bunch of other things... so for all the things the troop does I look at the activities and don't volunteer when I can't participate. But there are a ton of other things I can do and am happy to do them for the troop.

And as for my smoking - it was until I attended summer camp this past year (a whole 3 years after the "it wasn't her" incident) that the boy finally learned that I do smoke... and it was because of the summer camp rules on smoking. Ironically at any other campout I can hide here and there and go smoke, but at summer camp you are only allowed to smoke at the 1 designated place and it's right there in the open by the parking lot. The boy was walking by and I didn't see him in time to hide it.

my son's troop uses Eureka tents - they have timberline 4 & timberline outfitter 6.

I have yet to have a tent that says you can sleep X to actually fit X unless you are very snug and don't move and don't have any gear in it.

The timberline 4 can fit 2 of our big boys or 3 of our little guys... the outfitter 6 will fit 4 big boys and we've had 5 little ones.

The little guys just aren't tall enough to put the big tents, but then we have the big tents because our bigger boys wanted a tent they could stand in to change their clothes.

The nice thing about having both sizes is that the boys can take the tent that fits their needs: activity, number needed to hold, size of the boys, etc...

the troop does NOT allow cots, the boys only use them at summer camp or in a lodge that doesn't already have beds provided... they have to remove shoes while in tent too. If the tent is wet when we have to pack up then the tentmates decide who is taking it home to dry out and return it - usually the same boys bunk in together and just rotate turns.

I prefer to sleep on a cot so I bring my own tent and any other female along bunks with me because I can fit 2 more cots into my tent and they usually don't use cots so I'd actually be able to fit 3 more ladies.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that Beardad!

The way my son's troop does it there is a cook and assistant cook for the campout - they cook and then clean up their prep area while the others all take turns doing their dishes and cleaning up the rest of their area.

Our adult patrol does it similar, but we don't have an assigned assistant cook - it just varies based on who is handy and what is needed. The men love my cooking so I end up being cook a lot when I'm camping which is fine with me... I HATE doing dishes!!! But the last couple of campouts we've had this 1 adult attend both and it's amazing how he seems to disappear when it's time to do any of the cooking and cleaning, but is suddenly there when it's time to eat. I had noticed that with his boys - I guess I know where they learned it.

first off I'm LOL at all the "if you... then you are a helicopter parent" and sadly have seen some of those along the way.

but I understand what you are saying bacchus... I worry about it too. We don't live in the same town as the troop my son is with, and it makes no sense to drive back home, wait 10 mins, and then go back and pick him up... so I have always stayed. I am a MBC and on the troop committee. But as the only in house swimming merit badge councilors and the person that does the swim tests for our canoe trip that happens before summer camp I usually am most active with the new scouts. I do camp a lot as it is something I enjoy, but most of my work on campouts is not working with boys but working with the parents and teaching them how to NOT parent on these trips.

I refuse to do any merit badges with my son unless I'm the only councilor we have available. I made him do swimming at camp in the very cold pool (mean mom LOL) after which he had only 1 requirement that he did not pass that I had him do at our next swim tests and witnessed by another adult. there are a couple reasons I don't work with my son on MB - 1) I'm actually harder on him than I probably am on other boys and 2) I don't want others to think my son is skating by with me even though he wouldn't be (it's that perception thing)

the most fun I had was the 6 months this winter through summer when my son was SPL... his very first meeting agenda you could see that he came to me and asked how to type one up... at the end of which I said ok, now you know how to do it so you don't need help any more. Well, my son needs to learn how to use spell check... OMG every agenda he emailed out had something spelled wrong... I'm not sure how many mEAting's we had but every time I read it I laughed. By the end of it he had some very well written agendas, but of course he just had to purposely mess the heck out of his last one just because he's a smart alec!

back when my son was in cubs and I was DL we had a string of beads for each scout that was attached to our den flag (our pack we made our own den flags rather than the ones that come from the scout shop) the boys got beads for different things 1 of which was wearing their uniform to a meeting.

were the boys made to wear their uniform? no

did the boys like seeing that they had more beads than other boys? yes

we were an above the waist pack as well... I'll never forget football season when I had my son and another player running in pulling off their pads and throwing their shirts on. looked really funny to see the football pants with the shirt, but hey they made it work. And thankfully we had a well ventilated room!

most of the boys in my son's troop use what you all call "in house" MBC... we have adults that have sons currently in the troop as well as adults who have sons that have aged out. So while they are "in house" some of the adults are people the boys may have never seen or talked to before working on a merit badge. We also have several who are the spouse of the more active adult and so you only see them when they are working with someone on a merit badge or at a court of honor.

we do have some merit badges where we do not have "in house" councilors for and those we do through the council to get councilors for, but they are badges that are either mostly earned at camp (rifle, shotgun, archery) or not as popular with the boys.

I like the way my son's troop does it's meetings. We have real troop meetings every-other week. That is where the boys plan their campouts, work on advancements, etc... then the "off weeks" are merit badge nights. MBC have a day and place where they can meet up with scouts and go over the work. Sometimes a boy working on a MB sits down once and then sets out to do the work and then meets again to show their work, while other times a boy needs to meet a few times to continue working on the badge. So the room isn't as full as it normally is at troop meetings and allows for better conversation.

when it comes to my son, I really don't care who he has for a MBC. But seeing as I'm the one driving him around I do prefer to not have to drive clear across the state to get him a councilor.

if this was my son...

1) I would talk to my son. First I don't agree with the tone I read in the email from the SM but I have some questions... Do you think you did the job you were suppose to do? Did you understand the tasks you needed to do for his job? Did you ask for assistance from the SM or adult in charge of the webpage? What have you learned from this experience? Sometimes we learn more from our failings than our successes.

2) I would talk privately with the SM. I would let the SM know that the tone from the email was very harsh and I have talked with my son regarding the issues brought up. I would let the SM know that we are in aggreement that my son did not do what was needed to get credit for his POR, but that in discussing with my son we have a few things to bring to the attention of the leaders to help keep this from happening in the future...

a) tell the boy which adult to report to with questions regarding his position. for example the SM may not be the person to turn to for website.

b) that it would be better to have a sit down with a scout struggling with their position partway through to give them pointers rather than waiting until the end and telling them they failed and don't get credit.

I'm the committee member that over sees the quartermasters. They report to me when things are needed repaired or replaced. I show up when the boys load up for camping trips and as soon as I see that a quartermaster did not attend the campout I ask who was asked by a quartermaster to step in for them, if no one answers then I have the SPL appointment someone and at the next meeting I will talk with the quartermasters and ask them to tell me what their duties are and I will ask them if they are fullfilling their duties - when this happens (usually just the first time they miss a campout) I tell them that if it happens again I will tell the troop recorder that the scout did not complete their POR duties. I had 1 QM that wasn't able to attend any campouts during his term, but every time got a replacement, but he still didn't want to take his credit. We were needing to reorganize some equipment including dishes so I gave him the task of cleaning all the dishes and reorganizing all those items and gave him his credit.

check state laws and also troop laws...

I'm not sure on my state's law on them, but I know they are NOT allow in my son's troop because as shown in the video link someone posted you can see all sorts of violations of safety rules.

of course if the state allows them and your troop doesn't you will have to decide what you're going to say when he says he just won't take it to scout functions.

If my son came up to me wanting one I would simply say that those types of knives are used more for weapons and we don't keep weapons in my house. Of course if you're a hunter or gun collector that option wouldn't work either.

sounds like what my GS troop did during the 2008-2009 scout year... only the girl or leader that had the most money in their jar had to wear a dress at the Feb. unit event. We all knew that all the other leaders, scouts, and their parents would make sure mine had the most money in their jar... a girly-girl I am NOT! in fact most of them hadn't even seen me without a ball cap on let alone in a dress. we raised over $50 and the only work we did was to set out the bottles at each unit event and take them to the bank at the end... had we thought even more we would've charged for them to take all those pictures of me too LOL

I think the wording is wrong...

it shouldn't be "push or don't push"

but rather "make sure the boys know whats available"

in working with my son's troop when we are on a campout and it's free time the SPL announces that it is free time and that for those scouts wanting to work on rank advancement to let him know to make arrangements for those boys to do the work with another scout. When there is a campout that has activities that can be used in rank advancement that is announced with the rest of the info for that trip - so if the upcoming campout the boys are hiking over 5 miles the SPL announces this at a meeting for sign-up and reminds the boys to bring their books. At summer camp the adults or the SPL will say "hey who needs to build a fire for their rank, we need one built today" and it's the adults that will see an older boy starting to goof off way too much and new boys being bored that will walk up to the older boy and suggest "hey I think you need to settle down a bit, why don't you do that while helping some of the new boys with learning their knots"

I'm going to share my thoughts on this...

first as a person in recovery that was practicing in my teen years... 1) there are all kinds of drugs that can be smuggled in, kept hidden, and not be seen when used. 2) depending on the drug and how much you are around the boy to be able to tell what they are like when they are on drugs and not on them, it is completely possible that the boy is always on them when you are around and you just accept his personality while high as his normal personality.

now as a leader and parent... if I am responsible for the safety of this scout and the others on the trip then I need to know that all the boys are going to make it home safely, and anyone being on drugs does make this harder to accomplish.

we have not had this issue with my son's troop or even my daughter's GS troop, but if we did I would do what my old church youth group did which was informing the parents that gear would be searched before we left and if drugs/alcohol/tobacco was found they would not be allowed to go, and if their child managed to sneak some by and was found that the parents would have to make arrangements at the drop of the hat to come get their child from where ever we were.

unless you want police charges brought out through this I don't think you will want the drug dogs - I can't see being able to get a search dog without informing the police of the situation. And with the information that you've shared here I would say this is more of a possible thing than a for sure thing, which I would keep more "in house"

having been involved with GS for going into 12 years and BSA for going into 9 years and being a leader with both I'm alllllllll for it - though it won't happen in time for my kids.

best way to do it IMO is to have packs co-ed, but allow for dens to be gender specifc... and then when they cross over the patrols can be gender specific. And allow the small towns/troops/packs to have co-ed dens/patrols if needed. They all have same rank/advancement requirements. They all have same merit badges.

To answer the question of why your daughter is welcomed into cub den/pack meetings, but your son isn't in return... the biggest reason is that GS is not a "family program" like cubs and we have to pay extra insurance for "tag-alongs"

as an outsider to OA (my son is an ordeal member and I am not an OA adult and since I'm a female I was not an OA youth member)...

I have no opinion on whether this should or should not happen, but if it were it wouldn't be hard... for ordeals have an area where females are place for their sleeping and have female OA members at the ready... and then when it comes to an OA weekend I'm going to assume they are all done the same as my son's lodge where they take place at the summer camp - just assign certain campsites for females only

now I'll let you all debate back and forth whether it should happen or not - I'll stay out of that debate LOL