IM_Kathy

I've enjoyed this thread and has really given me something to think about bringing up to my son (currently SPL) to bring to the PLC and Committee meeting.

His troop has always been that the SPL/ASPL eat with their patrols, but they are never cooks or cleaners because they are expected to help all the patrols that need it. This is one part of the SPL job that he has HATED... his patrol is all past 1st class so they aren't having to have members needing to cook for rank work, and so he was cook most of the time. When he is the cook his patrol eats just about as good as the adult patrol, when he isn't they eat as poorly as the other youth patrols. And while he has tried to teach others how to cook some of the things he does, explaining different techniques or recipes, and the actual use of spices - none really seem interested in moving past burgers, foil packs, and the usual same ol' things.

I know he'd love for the SPL/ASPL to eat with the adults, but actually in reading this I can see some great benefits in them rotating around with the other patrols.

I don't think that scouting is part of the overscheduling craze... I think a lot of it has to do with parents thoughts of making sure their kids do more than they did.

add into it the changes that have come along in the years... I'm only 37... when I was a kid we didn't start baseball/softball until 2nd grade - here they start at preschool or kindergarten depending on the parents... when it came to basketball it didn't start until 4th grade - now it's kindergarten here... band didn't start until 6th grade it now starts in 4th in our school. Now add in the fact that we didn't have "tournement teams" until middle school and now we have them starting in elementary schools - and back when I was on those teams (I was a sports nut) we had 2-4 tourneys a season (depended on if we kept winning) and now they have 1 almost every weekend... some sports seem to be either practicing or playing a game every day - they even get passed the wed night rule by going right after school that day so kids can be home for church/family night. If you're a pitcher or a catcher it wasn't until you got to high school that you worked all year long - now we have 3rd graders doing that.

when my kids were little we did start them off with each sport as soon as they were old enough - and let them try each for a couple of years to see if they enjoy it and want to continue or not. My kids aren't great athletes - my daughter as finally found that she excells in color guard and loves that - my son participated with basketball as manager and is running track this season to help with his physical fitness. We actually had some interesting discussions with him, because a track star he is NOT... asked why he wanted to be in track, does he understand that he might not win a single race to which he had the truest and most mature response with "someone has to come in last in every race - it might be me, it might not - and I don't care if it is or not. I want to have fun, and try something new." so we let.

with everything they do now that they are 16 and 14 is ask them what their priorities are - what comes first if there is a conflict? My 16 year old daughter's priorities are color guard, girl scouts, speech, and then work. My 14 year old son's priorities are BSA troop, the 1 sport that is in season, and then OA. And my kids know the first thing that goes away when grades drop are the extra school activities (sports, debate, speech, color guard) thankfully we haven't had to go that route.

"using the same (troop-supplied) tents"

troop supplied tents - all scouts use them. The boys do NOT get to bring their own. The boys all have the same rules with using troop tents: no cots, only water allowed inside for drinking, etc....

leaders are allowed to bring their own tent or use a troop tent, but if they use a troop tent they must follow the same rules as the boys do. A few of our leaders have tent-cots. I bring my own tent because I need a cot with my back and I hate water (gotta have my dt. coke) and those tent-cots are just too small for me.

as to if all our troop tents are alike... we have a couple that are a lot older that are different from back when the troop started, but as years have come along and we've had to buy new tents we buy tents that are alike. we have 2 different sizes available for different sized boys and number of boys sleeping in them, but they are the same brand, style, and color.

troop campouts the boys are responsible for their meds unless their parent comes to us and says "here are his meds make sure he takes them at X time" meaning their son doesn't want to take his meds so we have to make him.

at summer camp we follow the camp's rules - each medication is turned in and the troop is given a lock-box for them and unless they need refriderated they can bring the lock-box back to camp site - those needing refriderated have to go to director/nurse office to take their medication.

our permission sheet lists all the boys when we sign up and has a spot where a parent lists their son's meds so we have that on hand for medical emergencies.

as a person that is on medication and often has to get doses changed it is easier for me to keep a list in my wallet - and then on that sheet or any other sheet I write down "medication list in wallet" That way when I'm at a non-scout activity and have a medical emergency my medication info is right there with me (1 of them has reactions when mixed with other types of meds so it's important for those who need to know to know) And I always recommend this to all parents who have boys that are on daily medication(s)

my son spent a year working as a Den Chief and loved it and the Den Leader loved having him. It was for a Webelos I & II den.

my son led opening and closing games so the DL could get things set up and cleaned up, talk to parents, etc... he taught all the scout skills for outdoorsman dealing with starting a fire, tying knots, pitching tents, etc... he also taught 2 other activity pins.

the next year the new Web II joined the new Web I den and they already had a Den Chief that was staying with them so my son moved on to doing other positions with the troop.

My son worked with a pack in the town we live in that has it's own troop, 2 of the boys from his Web II went on to a different troop, but this year 2 of the boys from his Web I group joined his troop - and now that he is SPL is really enjoying working with these 2 again helping them get to know all the boys in this troop.

very bad...

BUT, one way we have gotten around this issue is stating on our flyers that our event is at ___ and will go from #:##-#:## and we will be doing ______ if your family would like to explore the campsite and the other activities they offer then they are free to do so before or after our event.

this means that my family can show up a couple hours early and go canoeing on our own and totally seperate from the scouting activities and it's totally onto the parents for safety and liabilty

thank you all... learning a lot.

I know the crews are going to be doing several practice treks this fall and then again next spring before they go. much of the gear he actually already has as he loves camping and hiking and adds to collection every xmas and birthday.

I already told him that since he's 14 right now and still growing that we aren't getting him set up with shoes and clothing until it gets closer. The troop has others do the trek a few months ago and they recommend wearing hiking boots and packing lighter weight tennis shoes. And I know he'll need a new sleeping bag because he has 2 1) is a zero degree and very heavy 2) is very light but used for summer heat camping.

He's personally made plans for working out. right now he's going to our fitness center like he's always done but in stead of keeping treadmill flat he's changing the elevation working on going up hills. Once the snow finally melts we have a great trail in our town and he's planned to hike it every day starting with no weight and then adding weight constantly pushing himself.

I've already emailed him the links you guys posted - since I thought they were great and I'm sure he'll enjoy them too.

so thank you for all your thoughts and opinions

ok, while yes almost all alcohol is cooked out when cooking as a member in recovery I do not use alcohol for cooking... 1) in case it doesn't cook out 2) just having it my house can drive me nutso

so I never use it with cooking, and I never eat anything that has used alchol when cooking.

now loving to cook and trying lots of different things I've learned to make substitutions... the site I turn to often when wondering what to use is....

http://whatscookingamerica.net/alcoholsub.htm

my son's first troop we went on their winter cabin trip as webelos. after cross over we had summer camp, 1 camporee, and 1 campout and that's it during about a year. VERY disappointing... and would've taken these boys forever to complete their camping MB

we switched to a more active troop that also had better bahavior and rules for behavior... we camp once a month. 1 each year is for sure indoors when we have the new scouts just crossed over in the winter. The others are typically outdoors, though it depends on what the boys have chosen for activities. We did a climbing night where they have a program for scouts and they have the boys sleep inside the building. We've done an aviation day at a nearby military base and they have the boys sleep inside. But those are just a once in a couple of years things.

not required, but very helpful.

my son's troop has a sign-up for each campout. it's all two sheets since boys are listed with their patrols and adults are listed as well...

reason it's helpful is we ask for emergency contact numbers - while those are on the yearly form, some times your "normal" person is going to be gond and need it to be someone else. We also ask any medical concerns - things can change within a year... Johny now has a broken arm and is allowed to camp but is now taking X for pain. Plus it's all on those 2 pages - and our adult listed on trip sheet has those so doesn't need to look through all the forms to find 1 boys list.

me personally I'm on medications for PTSD - sometimes I'm on the same med and dose for a full year, sometimes changes in med or dose will take place. I've gotten tired of always writing them all done on those sheets (1 has side affects when mixed with others) so I have gone to keeping a list of them all in my wallet - so now on the medical concerns I just list medication list is in my wallet.

the ones that never "kicked in" probably ran into the issues many of us have had... they cross over in 5th grade - then 6th grade comes along and for most that means middle school.. it's amazing the things that are not "cool" in middle school that they all enjoyed in grade school.

Add in more sports, band, choir, and more after school programs (newspaper, yearbook, conservation team, astronomy club, student council, etc...) and these are no longer the pracitice during a class and performing twice a year for band/choir and for the sports it's no longer the practice a couple times a week and play a game on the weekend.

while my son has been in middle school he's done the astronomy club, choir, musical, student council, conservation team, and was manager for basketball... but he told them all that for him Scouts came first. Which means that he had to leave basketball 10 mins early to make it to scouts, and if it was a road game the same day he would miss out. When it came to the musical as SPL he needed to be on the campout when they were learning the stage makeup, he arranged with his teacher to stay late after a practice to learn this.

It's this middle school time where boys basically have to make choices as to what is more important to them and to structure their time. It's also a time when peer-pressure really starts to kick in. And it's also a time when parents get tired of dealing with all these activities and say to their son "you have to stop one/two/etc of these things" forcing the boy to decide.

my son's troop tries hard to make scouting as fun as possible and less like work... yes when they are camping there a chores that are needed done and they each take their turn... they also work on advancement requirements or merit badge work - though none of this is "forced" it's the boys that seek this out... and during all the rest of the time they goof-off playing football, cards, hind and seek, etc...

My son will be going with members of his troop the summer of 2011. He is already starting to prep himself working out at the gym until it warms up. Once it warms up other than working with his group and their prep-trips what would you recommend?

For those that have gone before I've heard some different suggestions on degrees for sleeping bag - so what would you recommend?

also he has never used hiking poles, would you recommend them and if so does he need 1 or 2?

we've gotten a lot of info from some of the members of the troop that have gone before, but would love to get all the little tips and suggestions so his experience will be great!

thanks in advance.

I find this very interesting... let's change the discussion away from scouts to let's say "driving"

here a kid can get a learner's permit when they are 14 which means they can drive when they have an adult in the front passenger seat. The kid then takes driver's ed and when that's passed can get their licence at 16. If they do not take driver's ed then they can't get it until they are 18...

so simply change that back to scouts........

a boy get's his permit by being a webelos, he learns from an adult and prepares for boy scouts... he then takes driver's ed by working on and passing his AOL... when he completes that he then becomes a boy scout.

I'm sorry, I don't want a 16 year old kid out driving around without ever taking a class on how to drive! As a scout leader I know that a boy who has earned his AOL is more prepared for what will take place on our campouts then a boy that hasn't.

ok I know it's all basically and done with, and my son's troop has not had this issue at such a level. But with reading all this I've put some thoughts together...

typically there are at least 3 adults on our campouts and while sometimes 1 is the SM or ASM the rest are usually committee members. So right when this were to happen in the future you need to stop it as soon as possible, and then seperate the boys to get them calmed down. Then have them each have a turn to come before the adults and the SPL or ASPL that is camping there and explain what happened. From that I would discuss among the adults and SPL/ASPL what should be done. Then bring the boys back one at a time and address them with what will happen for the rest of the campout and what will happen at the next troop meeting:

"We believe that the severity of the behavior that you should be sent home for the rest of this campout, and we will ask you and your parent/guardian to come and talk with us at the next meeting about any further punishments"

"We are concerned about your behavior, but so far think that you can stay as long as you correct your behavior, but we will want to talk with you and your parent/guardian next meeting to go over what needs to be done as we move forward"

oh, and when the boys come forward and have different stories... I'd bring them back individually again, and if the story is still different then obviouslly someone is lying and I'd add that into not following the law with that too.

while it's bad that this happened, I do thank you for sharing it because it has given at least me something to think about before it happens - though I hope it never does.

my son's troop has camped on "farm" land owned by one of our adult leaders. we simply made sure it met all of the rules for camping facilities and filed all the necessary forms.

biggest reason we went there was the boys were wanting to do some hiking that was not trails which around here that's about all we have.. they wanted to get out and explore with just a basic map and compass and really try planning out different routes rather than always have to go the same way everyone else always goes.

boys had a lot of fun - even got a little fishing in too.

when working with my son's den we did have summer meetings... as wolf/bear we worked on electives for our new level that way if a boy missed he didn't missed a "requirement"... as webelos we worked on pins that weren't required for webelos badge or AOL except for outdoorsman but we worked on it during a time when we knew all the boys would be there.

summer is a great time to get the group together and hit the zoo, take a hike, fly some kites, etc...

parent and community involvement is a MUST in my opinion.

I had 1 parent who is an electrician - he led the engeneering pin.

I had 1 parent who was great with tools and wood working and he helped with that part of craftsman.

I had 1 parent that also had a sewing machine and she worked with me and my machine as well to lead the boys in making a bag as one of their craftsman crafts.

We used a local wildlife center for earning naturalist and forester.

we used a county park program for earning the geologist.

some of the pins were just not something I could lead and know for sure that the boys would understand, but they were pins the boys wanted to do - so I just searched out ways to get them done.

living in snowy Iowa when my son's den became webelos we did meet once a month in the summer to do outdoor activities. One was the art one where they made frames from nature and painted scenes from the neighborhood park.

that first summer they went to summer camp as a den (I told them I would go once. the next year was up to the individual families) We also went with the Webelos II to work on our Natrualist pin at a nearby wildlife refuge.

once school started we started working on activities for the webelos badge - our pack goal was November/February for that. We then continued to work on different pins.

over the next summer we did go with the new Web I's at the same location to do their forester pin. The rest of the summer we met once a month to work on more of the outdoor type of pins

Our goal as the boys chose was to have each earn Webelos and AOL... and for the boys that were dedicated and didn't miss a lot (or made up when they missed) would earn all 20. 2 of the 4 boys earned all 20

for us the meeting during the summer was a must because of our weather conditions here. It was also helpful that during the summer I didn't work back then so we had those meetings at my house and one other parent wasn't working and she would help with shuttling when we had more scouts and stay for 2-deep. We also threw some fun in there by having one day where they brought their swim trunks and had a water war game towards the end of the meeting.

My son's troop is a well rounded troop.

We have a HA trip every-other summer. Last summer they went to boundry waters, but my son was too young. 2011 they are headed to Philmont and my son is signed up and already working out at the gym until the snow melts and he can do a lot of hiking to prep himself.

We camp every month including the fall and spring camporees and summer camp. In the winter some of the trips are tents and some are cabin just depends on the boys plans.

They have had a trip to South Dakota in the past, but nothing like that since my son has joined. but they do mix up their trips: canoeing, caving, hiking, swimming, fishing, biking, and some are just hang out and have fun.

key is to find a troop that is active and that does offer what your son would enjoy the most.

to be involved without being overly involved... I would suggest doing that new parent training online. I would also recommend doing the committee member training that is online. Heck, take all of them that available online - like the youth protection, swimming, boating, and weather.

I'd also suggest picking up the merit badge book that lists all the merit badges and the requirements for them - and pick out some that you could instruct. For the ones I do with the boys I then got the actual badge books for them.

Then when you do cross over into boy scouts you already have a good understanding of some of the rules and how things should go.

The troop my son is in usually has brand new parents become committee members - basically you sit in on Board of Reviews (and we typically put just 1 new parent in with 2 expierenced adults) and then attends a campout or a few as need to meet the number of adults needed for the planned activities. Like we always take 1 extra than normal for a winter campout due to risks of weather and boys being boys and not dressing for the weather every minute of the day.

Then after the 1st year of sitting on the committee as just a normal member there may be committee positions that open up based on what other parents are doing and needing a break - like outdoor cordinator, treasurer, secretary, fundraiser chair, etc...

The best setting is to have plenty of adult support for the boys. The boys do the planning, the boys do the leading, the boys do it all... but the boys can't do any of it if there aren't enough adults to make sure their plans can be carried out. And if you have enough adult support then the adults won't get burned out... with plenty of adults you don't HAVE to go on every campout. I'm one that normally goes on a lot, but my schedule has been messed up lately and I haven't been on one since October I think and we do one every month.

glad to hear my son isn't the only one that has issues with tying shoes... and he's 14!!! He just doesn't care to mess with them for normal daily use - when he's play sports or hiking then he'll take his time and get it done right and continue to re-tie if they come loose.

the 1 knot I have issues with is the bowline - I can tie it one handed around my body with either hand, but to stand there and use both hands and show how it goes around some tree and through some hole --- nope, can't do it that way! So I leave that to others and will teach the one handed method

T2Eagle,

council my daughter is in requires participation in either cookie or fall product (candy/nuts) for the younger troops (Brownie & Juniors) to do a troop fundraiser and for older troops (Cadette, Senior, Ambassador's) to have another fundraiser they need to participate in both.

BUT, participation is not defined. which means if just 1 girl from the troop sells 1 item for sale(s) they have participated and can do another fundraiser.

Cookies is the biggest fundraiser for the troops in our area. Last year my daughter's troop did 1 additional fundraiser for our SD trip, but it was more of a contest that ended up making me wear a dress... I HATE dresses!!! So I knew more money would end up in my jar and I supported it. Most fun was watching the girls add money to their jars to make people put even more into mine LOL

since it is a sign of respect - if I were there and not in uniform to salute back I would simply say "thank you, you can now take a seat"

great ?'s Beevah

1) Do the youth leaders sign off on advancement requirements?

the boys teach the skills to the younger boys, when the younger boy has it down the other boy tells them they then come show off their skill to an adult to get it signed off.

2) Does the PLC set the calendar?

calendar in days we meet or camp - no we have set dates for meetings based on school schedule and how our troop works... and we camp 3rd weekend of the month except when camporees don't fall on that weekend and summer camp.

but they do fill in the calendar - they say what is going to go on during those meetings... they say what we will be doing on that campout.

3) Does the PLC set the budget for the troop, and determine how program money is spent?

it is all pretty much set from over the years the troop has been around, but if changes are needed in the boy's eyes then PLC discusses and brings to the committee

4) Can the Quartermaster dispose of or purchase gear on his own?

our youth QM records all items that are low, broken, out of... and any other recommendations... they communicate this to the committee member who oversees equipment -- if it's just a "this propane is empty" then the adult takes it and replaces it. if it's a "we need new stoves because we are down to only 2 working" or "we are building new patrol boxes and need newer stoves that will fit" then the QM is given the task to price them out and bring the info to the PLC and then the committee

5) Do the youth leaders have keys to the building/trailer/locker?

not on a daily basis... but on campout when trailer is in use then yes the QM is handed a set of keys.

6) Can the PLC add, subtract, or rewrite troop "policy" for youth members?

we've never had to so don't know on this one

7) Do the adults ever touch a stove/pot/shopping cart, or are the youth responsible for their own meals?

only when we cook our own meals

8) Does da SPL present the program to the Committee or does the SM?

SPL tells committee what the PLC has decided to do and then if adults have concerns they are shared then

9) How many times in the last year have yeh knowingly hiked or driven miles out of your way because the lads took a wrong turn and you let 'em?

any time it happens unless they are leading themselves into a dangerous situation (a trail with a big drop) or is getting so lost you are starting to get lost too LOL

10) If a boy suffers a minor injury, who does the first aid?

while you hate anyone getting hurt - it's always interesting to see who will jump first to perform the aid --- we adults never jump. heck boys caught a rag on fire on one trip and we didn't know until it was time to head home because the boys all took care of putting it out and treating the small minor burns on 2 of the scouts.

11) When an event is canceled, who makes the decision?

this is typically done by an adult because it's typically due to unsafe activities for the weather (flooding is making it too dangerous to canoe here) or the weather is unsafe to drive in (we've cut one trip short because had we not left early we wouldn't have made it home)

the canoeing type of the things the boys will often recognize on their own -- the condition of the roads they just don't seem to notice!

my son just joined OA this past summer/fall... right now his loyalties are first to the troop especially since he is SPL. He was sad that he has to miss out on the winter OA campout because the troop has a campout that same weekend and his ASPL is booked with a band concert so he felt his duty was to the troop first.

Having just joined OA he doesn't know all about it and the special things they do... he is still working on getting his brotherhood and hopes to have that completed by summer camp.

Other than performing the ceremonies our OA members don't have a special privledge at camporees or derbies... so during the non-ceremony times they are all just scouts like everyone else.