GNX Guy

I would have to disagree here with Bob White with respect to "Tenure"

I think the big issue is many do not actually understand the term "Tenure" and what is actually means.

Tenure is the term used for "holding something" and in our situation the leader is holding 1 specific leadership position within a single unit. Or one may say the length of time with current employer (or leadership position) in current job (or leadership position).

If the leader is registered and holds 2 different leadership positions in TWO DIFFERENT UNITS at the same time(say a Scoutmaster for Troop 100 and a Den Leader in Troop 200) one would say they are holding 2 separate leadership tenures. Another example, say a college professor teaching at say the Illinois Institute of Technology during the day and DePaul University at night. Two separate employments, two separate tenures to be earned. Now, you cannot earn both the Cubmaster knot and the Cub Scouter knot at the same time within the same unit. It would take 4 years to earn these within the same unit. But would only take 2 years to earn them if the leader was registered in 2 separate units during the same period of time.

In the training awards criteria, there is no mention at all about using training for one award and one award only. It only mentions tenure. There is more to earning the recognition knots than just the tenure and attending the training class. There are usually several other criteria or goals that must be met. The intent of these awards are to foster the leaders into delivering the program to our youth as it was intended to be delivered.

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The boys in this episode were trained by our Committe Chair from our SCUBA SHIP here Troop 101 was certified last fall and attended Sea Base this past July.

Thanks Bob White,

I knew there was a "41" in the page number somewhere.

jblake47, if you read all of my post you will see that it clearing states that the rule I mentioned applies only to the Sea Scout adult uniform.

Actually, As I recall the only mention of a specific limit to the number of knots allowed to be worn is referenced in the Sea Scout manual for the adult Sea Scout uniform (Max 6 knots), I think it was around page 41 or so. Maybe Bob White can confirm for me as I don't have my Sea Scout manual with me.

While I was as Sea Badge training, there was a leader there with 7 full rows of knots. 21 total. After completing Sea Badge, he may have started an 8th row.(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

I wonder if they will try to enforce the rule as stated in BOLD PRINT from the Commissioner Fieldbook for Unit Service Page 24 "Commissioners must not be registered as unit leaders" "There is no room in a person's schedule for other Scouting assignments.

It sure does, in bold black print............All Actions for the PTC Master Track Square Knot must be earned after June 1, 2008. All Course taken prior this date will not be counted.

And I gotta tell ya, the arrogant comment in the 2nd post of this thread by OldGreyEagle really is more than a tad un Scout like. I go to the PTC to gain knowledge and to learn of new contacts which in turn will hopefully allow me to provide a better program for the youth. By participating in a conference last year at the PTC, I was able to share my knowledge and gain new knowledge to better deliver the scouting program to over 1000 every mentally and physically disabled / special needs scouts. OldGreyEagle thinks it was a waste.

So, those of us that take a week or more of vacation to attend the PTC should feel like outcasts.

Your statement clearly demonstrates that YOU think training is worthless. What a pity. Maybe you should try some training sometime.

So, you must also look down upon those that take a family vacation every year too? Or those that go to summer camp every year with their unit. It's all about choices and what you want to do to better the program for the youth. I / we choose to go to Philmont, my children and wife LOVE it. I'm very happy to give them the experience. It's a lot less expensive than Disney.

What I have learned and the contacts I have made throughout the country at the PTC have been so valuable in bettering the program for the youth I serve.

I guess I'll feel ashamed if I attend PTC next year.

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

yup, confirming what Bob White stated. Sprint no worky.

Verizone worked perfectly this year from Tent City. Last year----nothing.

No bugs the times I've been there

I forgot, be sure to bring something to get branded on western night. Boots, belt, hat, etc.

Great Place, been there 2 years in a row now and plan to go again next summer. Bring your entire family, you will do them a dis-service if you don't.

Food has a lot to be desired, but they have salad at every meal. I found they only put the Baco's (Bacon bits) out on only one side of the cafeteria.

Bring your laptop, WIFI right from your tent. Maybe a scrap piece of carpet, hangers, maybe a power strip as you get 1 outlet and 1 light bulb hanging in your tent. Maybe a single sheet to cover your mattress. Visit the Cimmeron art gallery for some good ice cream (Not for the suveniors they sell)Reqest a tent AWAY from the heads. It gets noisy at night and you have to hear the kids and adults drag their feet through the fine gravel. Bring a lanyard with a clear pocket, as the clip on name tags they provide suck and break in one hour.

IF you take a shower in the morning and feel that the water is cold, let it run for 2-3 minutes and bam.....hot water.

How come PTC does not follow youth protection guidelines when it comes to the head and showers use??? I always wondered that. They do follow it on the inbound and outbound trail side.

Spend the time and hike the trails they allow the PTC attendees to hike on. Always fun passing or passing up a crew on the trail.

My son just turned 11 a week ago and has been to Philmont twice now and has hiked on several back country trails and this year as part of his program got to hike into and stay in the back country a the hunting lodge, where a ranger needed to use 2 shots to kill a bear that night. A few rangers told me that bears are being a bit more friendly this year than in years past. My wife saw 2 piles of bear scat on her trail hike and we as a family saw one pile on the lovers leap trail.

Oh, my daughter turned 7 in April and she too has been to Philmont twice and has hiked the trails with us and during her daytime programs along with horseback riding, etc.

I'm sure I'll think of more later.

OK, let's see..............

Tenure

Complete one year as a registered Tiger Cub Den Leader.

(Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn another key or award.)

So, we're coming up on the anniversery of School Night for Scouting when I was recruited as a new Tiger Den Leader. That's out of the way right?

I would say so.

Training

Complete "The New Tiger Cub Den Leader" Fast Start training.

Complete basic training for Tiger Cub Den Leaders.

Complete Youth Protection Training.

Done.

During your tenure for this award, participate in a Cub Scout leader pow wow or University of Scouting, or attend at least four roundtables.

Performance

I went to an all day training thing where I earned my "TRAINED" patch. Is that it?

Well, did you go to a pow wow? You should know what it was called. Did you attend at least four round tables. Pow Pow is where you might take 4 -5 different classes about different scouting topics.

Do all of the following:

 

Conduct a Tiger Cub roundup for your pack with at least five new Tiger Cub boy/adult teams recruited. [\quote]

 

What's a roundup? Would that be this coming School Night for Scouting or the day I visit school classes in uniform or none of those?

 

Round up is where you were probably recruited last year. You need to conduct one and have at least 5 new tigers sign up. Your pack will probably have one in September.

 

Contact the host team each month and provide support as needed for one year. [\quote] Huh? What's a host team?

 

 

Huh, you don't know what a host team is? I thought I read you attended tiger leader training and worn a trained patch. Did you ever read the tiger book?

 

When you read the Tiger book, you will find that each tiger meeting is to be held or conducted by a different boy/parent team, say at their house or meeting place of their choosing for example.

 

Did the parent or guardian attend each activity with the tiger cubs?

 

Coordinate Tiger Cub den participation in three Cub Scout pack activities each year. [\quote]

 

Hmmm... We have three dens. Does this mean I have to coordinate all three dens or just mine? Does it have to have been done last year or could I spill back? What if I helped coordinate pack activities in general? I'm confused about this one.

 

No, just your den. Not pack activities. Did you coordinate your dens participation in the Pinewood Derby, rain gutter regatta, Blue and Gold or other activities?

 

Graduate a Tiger Cub den into Cub Scouting with at least 60 percent of the Tiger Cubs becoming Cub Scouts. [\quote]

 

Done. 80% earned their badge, 90% coming back.

 

Report on the progress of Tiger Cub dens at 75 percent of pack leader meetings[\quote]

 

Huh? Is this this keeping up with everyone progress toward their tiger badge, beltloops, pins, etc.? If so I had that under control all year long.

 

No, but you should have kept track of thier awards anyway. You must have attended at least 75% of the monthly leader/committee meetings. These meetings are not den meetings or pack meetings, they are meetings with you and the other den leaders or committee members. You report the progress to the CC of what your boys have been doing and what they have completed, along with future planning.

 

 

 

 

I've got photos I can post after I return July 7th

Yup, a new "Philmont Knot" Attend PTC after 1 June 2008, recruit 3 others to attend PTC promote the PTC and attend a 2nd time yourself. Prior attendance at PTC DOES NOT COUNT. Program starts 1 June 2008

Don't have the specific wording of the requirements in hand right now.

Approx 6:00pm this evening I witnesses a chopper land, deploy its bucket and begin to drop water on the left side of the valley below Tooth of time. Heavy smoke was rising. Luckly not too much wind. Possible lightning strike as I saw lightning about 30 min prior. Not sure, but it may have been by or near the Rocky Mtn Scout Camp?

Contrary to what has been posted here, the proper proceedure is as follows:

These awards are National Awards to be presented at a National Court of Honor at the council level

Download the 8 page nomination form from here; http://hoac-bsa.org/ae_links/lifesaving_meritorious_action_award.pdf

Submit to Council Advancement committee, they must investigate the case, interview the principals and witnesses, secure necessary signed statements and make a recommendation base upon knowledge of the facts. It is recommeded that the committee meet within 30 days of receipt of the recommendation. It is the council's committee responsiblity to write a summary of the event, complete the applicaiton in detail, provide attachments pertaining to the case.

The national court of honor makes the call on which award is to be presented. Council Committe only suggests as shown on page 1 of the nomination.

This was all taken from page 48 & 49 of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures publication # 33088

Rules are on page 6 of the above application

Council requirements are on page 7

National responsibilites are shown on page 8

OK, so you need to communicate with the parents. I will have to assume then, that you are able to communicate with the boys. Right? I bet the boys can communicate with their parents Right? Why not use the youth as interpreters?

Problem solved. That is what we have done.

Oh, by the way, I trust your youth have earned their interpreter strip? Put it to use.

Ahoydave,

1st, I have to respectfully disagree with many of the accusations that you have made.

1. Have you read the latest "Scouting for youth with Disabilities Manual" If not, I suggest you do. It was released Oct of 2007.

2. Have you attended The Philmont training center" and taken the course on special needs scouting. Its going on this week there.

3. Are you an active member of your councils Special Needs committee? If not, why. If your council does not have one, why did you not start one. You will find the step by step proceedures to start one on page 9 of the manual referenced above. Be part of the solution!!!!!!!!!!!

4. Have you attended the St. Louis are council's special needs training? I have a pretty good hunch that our friend Dawnydiesel that posted above may know a tad bit about St. Louis area council's program.

5. I noticed that someone pointed out in the last post that you claimed that "but there is also no formal recognition or encouragement for scouts or scouters to put out the effort to help." Again, not correct. Our council has a program called the "Champions" buddy program. I've promoted it around the country and currently, The Denver area council, Norther Star Council, Chicago Council, and several others have adopted it. In fact, its being promoted and talked about at the Philmont training center during the special needs course this week. If that's not at the "National Level" what is? Contact me directly if you would like a brochure on how the program works. My goal is to promote it and have it used nationwide.

6. Please identify the things you have done to futher the ability of your local unit, district, council, region and national to better serve youth with special needs.

7. You also state "In leader training, no time is spent on how to accomodate special needs kids" Again not true. Please read page 130 of the Scoutmaster handbook.

8. You also state "My autistic son is about to turn 18 and I do NOT plan to continue my involvement with scouts." I might suggest being active rather than quiting. It may be that you are in the situation you are in at your unit level because the leader before you said the same thing. Try and make some change. Maybe you could be the special needs chairman for your unit?

9. You also state" I think the worst salt in the wound is the disabilities merit badge. Is anybody in scouting really aware of disabilities they can't see? Worst, I really don't think any are interested. Draw a picture of a wheel chair, get a badge."

Yes, many folks, including scouters are aware of disabilities they can't see. And you don't think any are interested, Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being a Disabilities awareness MB counselor, I have the book in front of me and could find no where that drawing a picture of a wheel chair gets you the MB. In fact I have a group of Boy Scouts coming from seven different Councils today, about 150- 200 strong to volunteer all day today and Saturday for our annual picnic for disabled adults and children. We will have over 1000 there with severe mental and physical disabilities. Most 90% plus have no family, have been disowned and are wards of the State. I've arranged for the Boy Scouts to running games, serve food, etc. At the end of each day I will be running a Disabilites Awareness MB clinic. And you say scouts are not interested. Please take a real look around, you might be surprised at what you really see. Oh, by the way, I earned what was then called The Handicap Awareness MB in 1981 as a youth. I'm kinda proud of that, in fact it was one of the reasons I'm doing what I do today with special needs scouting.

I happen to be heavily involved with the special needs program in our council, serving 1236 special needs scouts, both tradition and non-tradtional age. Many of your comments are a slap in the face to us scouters who are there for youth like your son. I do not have any special needs children of my own. I just like to help children like yours.

Looks like its up. Go to Scouting.org, then login to my scouting then click on events registration and you will see the following.

2010 NSJ Staff Application

Staff positions are open to youth/adult men and women currently registered with the BSA. Adult staff members must be born before July 26, 1989. Youth staff members must have been born between August 4, 1989 and July 26, 1994.

2010 NSJ Adult Leader Application

2010 National Scout Jamboree Adult Leader Application

2010 NSJ Youth Participant Application

As a parent, you may submit an application for your child to attend the 2010 National Scout Jamboree. To be eligible for consideration, your child must be an actively registered youth member, a First Class Scout and 12 years old or have completed the sixth grade by July 1, 2010.

2010 NSJ Staff - Edit Existing Application

Use this form if you would like to make a payment or edit your existing application information. You will need your Registration Code from your confirmation email to enter the site.

2010 NSJ Adult Leader - Edit Existing Application

Use this form if you would like to make a payment or edit your existing application information. You will need your Registration Code from your confirmation email to enter the site.

2010 NSJ Youth - Edit existing Application

Use this form if you would like to make a payment or edit your existing application information. You will need your Registration Code from your confirmation email to enter the site.

beaveriii, you did not indicated what course you will be a course director for, Seabadge, Powder Horn, Wood Badge, PTC, etc?

For me,

Seabadge, contacts & opportunities made available

Powder Horn, Location and contacts

Wood Badge a few contacts

PTC location & contacts

I should have been precise in providing the info, but I did not have the insignia guide at my finger tips earlier. I have in front of me, the 2005 insignia guide BSA# 33066E. I beg to differ with you in regard to any text stating to reference a picture. Please reference page 51, left column, last sentence. It clearly states "Other knots are worn as pictured on this page" Now, when you look at the picture it references as shown on page 51, top of 2nd column, you will notice that the 2nd row is centered, not to the left and not to the right. And your right, it does not say anything about centered, it references a picture that shows the 2nd row centered. Thus my statement of a picture is worth a 1000 words. If they intended the 2nd row to be not centered, would'nt they have a picture showing the 2nd row off to the right or left? The picture clearly shows the 2nd row centered

I'm just stating what it says and shows in the hard copy. I'm not making it up, really.

A picture is worth a 1000 words. If you reference the hard copy from the scout shop it specifically state that the knots should be worn as in the picture and the 2nd row is centered, it is not to the right and not to the left. If they intended that one or two knots were to be to the left or right the diagram they reference would show that.

If you want to follow the Insignia guide, 2nd row of knots is centered over the 1st row as directed by the text to refer to the picture indicating the positions. Not to mention it looks better. If you have 5 knots, the 2 on the top row are centered over the bottom three as shown in the photo in the insignia guide. Having them to the left or right is kinda tacky, kinda like your assuming your going to be getting more.

Some incorrectly place them to the left or right and have said that they are too lazy to remove and resew them as new ones are added. I guess having been in the military, I've become accustomed to attention to detail and pride of wearing the uniform properly.

Could that be the patch in the upper left?

http://www.bsajamboree.org/

Here is more

http://www.bsajamboree.org