GKlose

rismith: "My biggest problem with this situation is that the standard isn't being applied to everyone, it's being applied to this youth only." This is one aspect I'll have to think about. There are a couple of similar cases in our troop that would feed into this, but I also think that if I told those stories, we could have all kinds of tangents open up, and complications added. So in this particular case, this is the first time that Chris/CM and I/CC are running into this. It is a situation that started about a year ago, when the Scout first started to fill out his Eagle application.

Eagle732 -- thanks -- this really hits home: GET Eagle. BE an Eagle. EARN Eagle. Thank you for helping me have a moment of clarity :-). Guy

End-around, or sounding board? My gut feel is that the Scout and dad might be thinking the first, and I have no intention of being anything but the second. PS: so am I a meddlesome committee member? You bet -- I am heavily invested in what has been a 3-year process to rebuild a troop. We've kind of broken down the workload as program (SM) and administrative (CC). I'm thriving in that role. I can't always make monthly outings, but Chris loves the outdoors. I recall him only missing one out of the last 30 outings or so, and that was because of an out of town funeral popped up.

Hey! Can I have a say in this? :-) I am taking da Beav's advice to heart in this, and I have re-read his two most pertinent posts several times. And I'll read them again. And it will certainly help me going forward, especially for cases of getting too deeply involved. But Beav's posts have also put me in a difficult position (granted, self-inflicted). For the present circumstance, I can drop out of the (now scheduled) meeting with Scout and the Dad, and disappoint the family. I can't judge their true emotion via the email that has gone back and forth, but let's all assume there are v

Newest information -- I was contacted via email this afternoon by the Scout. He asked to meet with me with his dad attending as an observer only. Beav, saw your previous note about stepping on the SM role. I understand. Now I feel awkward. I will be talking with Chris about what has gone on. After the Tuesday evening conference, the dad contacted me via email. Maybe he now views me as an intermediary. You're certainly right that I didn't do anything to discourage the impression, and it is not a position I should be in. I think what I will do is meet with him this time -- he'll p

LisaBob -- just re-read your response from yesterday, with a clear(er) head. Wow. Bam. Direct hit :-). Thank you. Guy

Fred, I'm a whole lot closer to your point of view (and thank you for your analysis) than you might think. Chris would attest to this -- I don't move fast. I think about things, then make decisions, then take action. I'm not in a rush to judgement in this case. Let me clear about another point: at this time, I have not been asked for a signature, and I have not denied a signature. My hope is to try and guide the Scout through making a decision that will work for him. That's why I asked for his reflection on this matter, and why I wanted him to think about it for a couple of days. I think

Back after a little more sleep :-) -- "GKlose, I hope that one of the lessons learned is that in the future, when a scout is not seen for a period of time, he is contacted for a conference, and if he is not interested in actively participating, then his membership is not renewed." Venividi -- in some ways, we sort of do this. We have an annual registration fee that we collect just prior to the end of the year. Our recharter is usually complete by Jan 15. That is kind of like a touchpoint for most of our Scouts. If they are continuing in the troop, they pay the registration fee. If th

One more thing before going back to sleep ... Like NJScouter, Lisa and da Beav have pointed out, there is at least five more months to go, so I don't really thing it is necessary to resort to the desperate measures of the appeals process at this very moment. In fact, after this reflection exercise I've asked the Scout to go through, I was going to identify at least 3 paths -- - living up to the agreement, getting the signatures - pushing for the EBoR this next month, without all of the required signatures (the District appeal, more or less) - not doing anything more, waiting

I should probably address some specific questions that have been out there, but my mind is pretty muddled at the moment. Calico -- Chris outlined the reason behind the request for three outings (at the time, it was posed as a request of attending half the outings over a six-month period, so at least three -- we had nine, but three would have made this a moot point). We could argue the "active rules" all sorts of different ways, but I am sorry, but I am more fixated on the agreement between SM and Scout, and the idea that one of them is arguing a position of not living up to that agreement

Thank you all -- I've been reading through the responses, and I really appreciate the time you've taken to read through the "bloviation" and help analyze the situation. I'd like to add just a few more comments. First, I would like to corroborate Chris' response. The email responses that he quoted were email that I was CC'd on, and his quotes are accurate. His additional facts are true, from what I have observed. I'm aware that this can go to appeal, and most likely win. I would like to avoid that situation. For reasons that I have not stated yet, I really do want this Scout to succee

I'm spinning off from my own thread because of a situation we have developing. I am honestly interested in other opinions, so please let them fly. It is about one newest Eagle candidate. He's 17, turning 18 in late January. He recently completed his project, and had completed all other work. But it is his backstory that is a little troubling. His Life BoR was in April '09. Although I didn't witness it, I've been told that at that board he came across as bored and disinterested in the troop. At that point, he had been a patrol leader, but then again, at the time the troop was pretty m

Our troop was in need of some new tents a few years back -- I'd personally bought two Tetragon 5 (which are 2-man, 5x7 tents) and thought they had really great features for a cheap tent. So the troop bought some Tetragon 7 tents (3-man, 7x7). This last year, with an influx of new Scouts, we needed more tents rather quickly, so we got some more Tetragon 7s. Now those are the only ones we use, although some Scouts still prefer their personal tents. I like them a lot. We do camp the full year, in the northeast, and we've noticed that the fiberglass poles take a beating. I've had to replace s

Circa late 70s, my troop went to Ely, long before it was known as the "Northern Tier" high adventure base, and then canoed in Manitoba, what I now this is probably the Boundary Waters area. I was just a lazy teen, and this one time the lethargy won out (honestly, I went on every other single trip, including Philmont the prior year and Maine National High Adventure the year after!). Sure, the guys came home with stories that I would have hated it, that they were climbing through muck the entire time. And I believed them -- until later on. When it dawned on me that I MISSED IT! Then the yea

I'm thinking about spinning this into a thread on the advancement forum, just to see a wide variety of opinions. Kind of like due diligence :-).

Barry, we met with the Scout last night. Here is what the justification hinges upon: the present Guide To Advancement has added further clarification to the question of whether or not a Scout is considered active. It says that a troop, in fact, can set a "reasonable expectation" of participation. [side note: the Scout came to the meeting with a hardcopy provided by an old family friend, who used to be on the district advancement committee -- the hardcopy was based on the prior clarification of "active", the one that was derided in this forum and others as being "active = registered".

This summer, in addition to our regular week at an adjacent council's patrol-oriented summer camp, we did a week at a Canadian Scout camp just north of Montreal (Tamaracouta Scout Reserve). We dropped the price considerably by cooking on our own mostly, and using their dining hall for just 3 meals. Last summer, we went to two summer camps and had a 5-day "high adventure" canoe trip in Maine (the West Branch of the Penobscot River, and Chesuncook -- I call it "high adventure" because it is just a flatwater trip, there's not that much challenge -- but this is as remote as our Scouts have ev

Fred -- I understand your point. There is a whole story that goes along with the point I was trying to make. It started with telling youth, at their Boards, that they were done getting freebies, and that they'd be expected to actually fulfill a PoR to earn the next rank. Went through pretty much a whole cycle of Star and Life Scouts with that (the ones who were advancing). The next touchpoint was a statement at a committee meeting. The advancement chair made the statement that we'd pretty much gone through the cycle of those advancing and that we were approaching the first candidate who w

Thanks qwazse -- that makes a lot of sense. Guy

Thanks, everyone -- I appreciate it. I just thought of one of the negative aspects that has been going on. Service projects. In my mind, I think there are three cornerstones to an active program: (monthly) outdoor activities, service projects and conservation projects. We do schedule about six service projects a year, but participation is limited. Sometimes 4 to 6 Scouts, on rare occasion, we'll get as many as 12. Part of that was the "old guard", who kept billing them as "get your service hours in" for each project. Well, with that kind of mindset, no wonder attendance was so sparse

Through various responses to posts over the last couple of years, I've hinted at and danced around fully describing a situation -- when my older son joined a troop, it became really clear, very quickly, that the troop was in need of assistance. It was an adult-led, advancement-oriented troop with only passing mention of patrol method (the SM said "we're working on that", but it was getting no closer as the months went on). After awhile, it became pretty clear that he was the dominant player (the troop committee wouldn't do anything without his approval) and that he was content at being the Wor

I had to look it up -- I'd say someone has a sense of humor, LeCastor :-).

Hi Matt -- what Stosh said. And then some. I have no idea how unique this camp is, but the camp we go to includes a patrol-oriented program. Patrols sign up for activities, on a day by day basis (advancement in not emphasized, but it is still possible in this camp). For example, a little over a month ago, we had two patrols in camp, and they signed up for these daily activities: Patrol A: water skiing and tubing; horsemanship; climbing barn; sailing; snorkeling and kayaking. Patrol B: "Mountain Man" (tomahawks, action archery, black powder rifle), swimming, climbing barn, metalw

Thanks, Kudu -- understood. Guy

By the way -- I agree, 100%, with everyone else that has posted. Communication was a key. I got to the point that I have been addressing prospective parents and new parents and talking with them about the troop philosophy. The last time I did this (April, after crossovers), I was the most direct I've ever been. At one point, I said something along the lines of "for parents, it is sometimes frustrating to see a troop that looks a little disorganized; but every time that you contact an adult leader with a question about your son, or an outing, or whatever, you're depriving a young leader in