fotoscout

Ed,

It depends which book you're using.

Shoot for the Stars !!!!

Yes FOG.

In this council, because of stocking, supply, availability, and inventory issues, many of the Packs are still using the old book and following the program as laid out in the old book. This Sept. the new Webelos will all be using the new book.

I see from the link in your posting that this particular piece of the AOL has undergone a big change.

From the Webelos Handbook page 430.. Complete and turn in a Join Boy Scouting application to the Scoutmaster during the conference.

This is from the old Webelos book, not the most current. It seems pretty clear to me, although I dont know if its been changed in the new book.

Personally I think the program makes too much of this award. Id much prefer to see some sort of official recognition of the boys who started as Tigers and moved on to BS. It's almost as if the AOL was developed as a consolation prize for those not going to BS.

When the ceremonies are done together at B&G, the boys who are bridging seem to care less about the AOL, all they really want is that nice new Troop neckerchief.

Technically, I belive that one of the requirements for earning the AOL is to sign up with a troop.

The answer is We cant have double standards. We teach our scouts to be responsible with their knives. That responsibility includes knowing when and where it is acceptable to carry a knife. School property is simply not an acceptable place to carry a knife. There is no doubt that some kids, like Eamonns son, make inadvertent mistakes. Fortunately the school has rules, but in order for them to enforce those rules on the bad guys they also have to enforce them on the good guys. Beyond that, Im sure that #1 son is a fine upstanding young man and not a moron.

And speaking of blind ignorance, I did whittling chip with my boys in the public school that we normally meet in. Maybe I should tell the school, then they can suspend 18 boys and have the 19 parents arrested.

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Heres my choices :

35mm Film cans. Those little plastic cans that the film comes in, they have hundreds of uses, but I always put a piece of duck tape over the top just in case.

Sil-Nylon tarps: These can be pricey, but they are well worth the money. You do need to have the kids be careful with them because they are a little less robust than the conventional nylon, or poly traps.

MY overall first choice is GOOD Equipment. What ever it is, it should be good stuff. You get what you pay for!

Hello Everybody,

Heres a thought that Ive been thinking about going public with. Now mind you, this is what I call a floater, its not for public consumption yet.

If you dont like the uniform, then join the youth group attached to your house of worship. They should be teaching the same values that we teach and they wont ask you to wear a BSA Uniform.

The End.

HiKaufmannroy,

I just did this with my boys.

I started the week before by telling the boys what we were going to do at the upcoming meeting. I let them know that conduct and behavior would be of paramount importance at this particular meeting because of safety. I asked the parents to keep this in mind and to remind the boys before they left the house the following Tuesday. I also asked that all the parents be there for this one.

Midway thru the week, I sent out an email with a reminder!

Tuesday came and the boys were well prepared. They came in like little men, not Boys. First I had them disperse thru our meeting room and stake out a location. Then we did the Safety Circle Dance, arms out spinning in a circle to the Sponge Bob tune, or any other music you care to use,(Ive already forgotten what music I used, Souza would be good).

Then I had them go get chairs and drag them to their spots. At this point the boys have staked out their location and they werent even going let me into it! I spent a lot of time drilling the safety zone.

After that, I gathered up the boys, in a corner of the room and did the safety lecture. We demonstrated how to open and close the knife, then sent the boys back to their spots and had them practice with a parent. They had to do it properly, five times.

Next we moved to imaginary shavings. We demonstrated how to hold the knife, and the proper motion. The boys again went back to their spots and demonstrated the imaginary technique.

Now we move to the real thing.. Irish Spring Soap. It was the cheapest at Costco, but I understand that Ivory Soap flakes and cracks if you try to carve it. Each boy got a bar of soap and started shaving. We had them try to make a fish. Some could and some could not. I emphasized the shavings more than the shape of their carving. You want them to produce nice thin shavings, not chunks of soap. This can be very difficult for them.

As I said, each boy had a parent, and the parents sat with each boy and helped him. Very quietly we dispensed only three band-aids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing serious, but the boys were very sensitive about cutting themselves. Throughout the meeting I put up the sign and started the safety dance numerous times, some of the parents even got into it. And yes Bob, the boys had to close their knives, and put them back into their pockets before doing the dance.

At the end, I had the boys face the parent and recite the Safety pledge. It was great fun and the kids really enjoyed it.

The sad part is that contrary to instructions, some of the dads went out and bought the boys knives that are simply too big and heavy for a small boys hand. We had a leatherman multi tool, a rigging knife (fid and all), and even one of things they sell to dress down a deer. What the heck are people thinking??

The best part came the next week when we did the knife sharpening part of the exercise. This time we didnt ask for the parents to stay (although many do anyway). After instructing the boys to spread out, all I could hear was the chorus of youre in my safety zone, get out.

The Zeus EXO is actually a very different tent from the Mountain Pass EXO. In Eureka speak, EXO means external skeleton ( the frame is on the outside). That is where the similarities end.

The big difference is that the Mountain Pass is a double wall tent and the Zeus is a single wall tent. If you camp exclusively in dry climates with great weather the Zeus is a good choice. Beyond that, single wall tents tend to develop large amounts of condensation on the inside of the tent. Often, this can result in a wet sleeping bag simply from normal moisture in the air. Check out the reviews at this web site for more information www.trailspace.com

What goes around comes around..

The North Face, in conjunction with Campmor has decided to bring back the Pebbles two man tent. I still like this tent, and in fact now that parts are again available for it, I like it even more! Its worth looking at!!

If you decided to use the big blue tarps, Id suggest using some bungee cords at a few of the tie down locations. This will help relieve some of the stress on the tarp and it might even be self-draining when it rains.

Your Council should have a Religious Activities Committee. You can contact the council office and get a contact number for the chairperson. That person should have all the answers you'll ever need.

For new Cub Scout Leaders this can be a complicated exercise. You should be sure that the leaders understand that the religious awards are optional, and may be used for advancement, but are not required. The CS books contain the required achievement(s) in this area.

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I dont want to see this thread become a reason for people to not go to Wood Badge, so maybe I can put a perspective to it.

My tickets are not consuming, nor overly complicated to complete. They are applicable to my position, and certainly my kids have benefited from them, if for no other reason than that the ticket forced me to commit to something that I had wanted to do anyway.

In my course, the Troop Guides took the first swipe at new ticket ideas. Ultimately, one staffer was responsible for approving all of the tickets. He seemed to provide a leveling of sorts; by taking into account the individuals ticket ideas, position and experience.

The only part of the ticket that gets in the way is the time consumed in writing them, not completing them. Maybe the whole ticket process should be left to the end, and then finalized with your councilor?

Hello everyone,

Im glad to not be the only one debating this.

There is no money associated with this event, so thats a non-issue. The key issues are the registration process, communication, promotion (although slight), and, maintenance of the overflow list. Year-in and year-out, the facility puts on a top notch workshop for us. It is open to boys from any council. Historically, most of the boys are from our council, but, there are usually boys registered from two other nearby councils.

My concern is that we (BSA) dont embarrass the facility because a volunteer didnt effectively do the job, or, that the facility falls pray to the revolving door of volunteers.

I have enough on my plate, and got pulled into this because of another function that I coordinate between BSA and the facility. Since the workshop has been put on and managed entirely by the facility, I don't think that this has ever been categorized as a District or Council event. So, there really is no precedent here. I think I'll go to the advancement chair with it.

Thanks for the input.

For many years, a nearby government facility has hosted a semi-annual MB workshop. It is for one of the more difficult MBs, and needs particular expertise to do properly. Historically, the facility has handled the event in its entirety; advanced registration, overflow lists, communication, scheduling, and of course the event itself were all handled by the govt facility as a kind of neighborly thing to do. Unfortunately, they no longer have the ability to handle any of the up front administrative work and have asked us to take over that part of it.

Is it unreasonable to expect the Council office staff to take over this function, or, should this function move to the volunteers?

Twocub,

Take a look at this stove http://www.campchef.com/stoves/propane_stoves/gb90d.php before you go out and purchase a Coleman. I have an older version of this model and it's been terrific. it is available at a lower cost from other suppliers.

ScouterPaul, I'd like to hear more about how you fed all those people? Sounds like a great challenge!(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Without knowing more about how you camp, Id have to suggest the griddle. With 12 boys, the minimum number of settings at your table should be 24, thats a lot for a single Dutch oven. If you add sibs and spouses you have a significant number of people. A Dutch oven would be fun and a great learning experience for the boys, but I dont think that its going to give you the volume or flexibility to feed 12 young boys and their parent.

As for the backpacking stoves, one of the reasons we eat as a Den is to minimize the number stoves in use around the campsite. Just too many young energized boys, I dont want anyone getting hurt. I have a big three burner Camp Chef Stove with a griddle that we take on our Camping Trips.

We find that the Go-See-Its actually makes it easier on the new Tiger Den Leader. This is a meeting that he or she does not have to plan. All they have to do is make the arrangements, then tell everyone where to be, and when to be there.

When I did Tigers,I asked each parent to do one of the achievements. Along with that, they had to arrange the appropriate Go-See-It, and a den activity for the achievement. It worked very well. It also gets your parents involved!

Also, at your next Den meeting, after a Go-See-It, TALK UP the Go-See-It. Unless you had a real bomb, the kids will be very excited about the outing. Let them talk about it. More importantly let the parents that missed the outing get a sense of what their child missed. The boys, in their excitement, will sell the idea of going as a group.

FOG, I could agree with you except that here, the lower third of kids dont easily get the help they need. Unless the child is severely learning disabled, the parents have to fight tooth and nail to get the additional appropriate help.

Eammon,

I agree that a huge amount of thought and energy went into the tickets during the first weekend. Much of it evolves as a result of the first presentation, where the participants learn that they will have to do this. In my course there was a great emphasis on getting the tickets written before returning for the second weekend. One guy never returned for the second weekend because he just didnt want to do the tickets.

I also believe that the process of writing the ticket becomes consuming and diverts the participants attention away from the course material. The participants are nave, and to a great extent flounder through the first iterations of their tickets. This may be a result of having to write the tickets too early in the course, and without the complete understanding of the program that would occur toward the end of the second weekend. In my course most of ticket writing occurred during the breaks. In reality I would have preferred to take a break during the break!

I searched for myself and came up empty. I wonder wholl be living in my house when I get home this evening. Maybe Rod Sterling?

Sturgen,

I am now quite certain that you have never, ever met my mom. And, it is most likely that you have also never been in the same state with her!

FScouter,

In your own tongue and cheek way, you have supported the point thats being made here. Youve described a situation that is very prevalent, and of great concern to many parents.

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This is certainly the extreme, but its not inconstant with the thoughts that many people now have about our schools. Here in my part of the world, the schools evolve around the overachievers. Absolutely everything goes into the top third of kids that excel at something, and it could be anything; academics, arts, sports, or socialization skills.

The middle third of the kids are able to ride the wave and survive (sometimes flourish), in the wake.

The lower third, to the exclusion of their socioeconomic or demographic background, slowly become disenfranchised. One tick at a time, these kids are falling further away from success. If you remember Columbine, you might remember much of what was written and reported about this large population of disenfranchised youths that we have currently have in our society.

Its interesting to note that I wrote a response here in the forum some time ago, about uniform inspections that basically had the same message. Today the State of Tennessee agrees with me. However, I do think that this is a little over the top.

Heres a thought for all of you that want to see the Honor Roll returned to its place of honor. Perhaps the local Honor Rolls should be printed weekly, on the front page of every local and regional newspaper in oversized bold type. Maybe even in color. Maybe each and every local radio station should be mandated to report the local Honor Rolls. And maybe, just maybe, those of you that are nodding your heads in agreement should think of yourselves in the same way that we think of those out of control soccer parents we despise so greatly.

What surprises me the most about this issue is how laid back Council is in dealing with the units that still exclude women from signing on as leaders, or, restrict the women from going on outings. We have a number of Troops in my area that do this and it seems that Council is willing to go along with it.

On the other hand, I am fairly familiar with two of these Troops and I can attest to the fact that they have no problem recruiting new boys. The parents, actually the moms, dont seem to have a problem with it.