fotoscout

Last year our local Scout Shop started refusing to sell rank patches and knots without proof that the boy (or you) had earned them. No ifs, ands, or, buts! No proof, no badge, no patch and no knot.

Slowly, it is becoming well know that if you want a replacement or duplicate, you will have to carry the award card with you when you walk into the shop.

For first issues, you must have the Advancement Report.

Coincidentally, our local Scout Shop is co located with the Council Service Center. So, if you dont have your card you can always go to the Service Desk and have them verify the award for you. The service desk folk give you a scribbled piece of paper and the Scout Shop guy is very happy.

First, a well run soccer program will never develop the qualities of a BSA program or any other youth program similar to BSA. Soccer players will never be given the opportunity to run their program. They will only be given limited opportunity to fail, and in the end they will be taught to win at all costs, ethics and morals aside.

BSA programs do not have strict requirements to continue, they have requirements to advance. There is difference. Like many things the kid that has the best time in CS is often the one who has supportive parents and takes him to the CS activities.

This is probably an unfair question in the Cub Scout ranks. It may be more applicable to older boys in BS, but even thats debatable. Personally I think few if any boys are drawn to CS, unless the parent leads them in this direction. Either they have an older brother or relative in the program and get excited about it, or the parents just put the kid in the program.

Those answers are good but they are too general and politically correct.

I think they describe a good cross section of my kids.

For instance a lazy kid who isn't interested in outdoors or crafts; is Cub Scouts for him?

Absolutely, maybe hell find something that interests him.

I don't know if a kid who is uninspired by the activities of a typical den meeting can be converted

Then you havent found the right activities, watch him, his face will speak for itself.

Thus an unmotivated child would not be a good fit in the Cub Scout program

Something will motivate him. If he is distant and removed from the group, and shows no sign of interacting at any level I would be concerned and talk to the parents about him.

Think of the kids in your den and describe the successful scouts. Who are they are where did they come from? Is there a commonality to the successful Cub Scouts?

They are all successful! My favorite is the timid, small , quite, and shy kid, who just loves to get up on that stage and tell some really silly joke!

If he (they) are 11 years old, and eligible to go to BS right now, let them participate. If they do not meet the eligibility criteria, then they should not do the ceremony with the other boys. Scoutnut makes a good point, they still have the rest of the school year and summer to finish up on the Webelos Badge and AOL, and you could do ceremony for them in September or June.(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Lets see,

The shy kid, to help him come out his shell

The loud kid, to help him quite down

The dull kid, to give him some spark

The inside kid, to get him outside

The outside kid, to show him that there are other things to do

The bully, to show him that it is not acceptable

The energized kid, to help teach him that he has to slow down

The slow kid, to speed him up

The smart kid, to challenge him

The special kid, to let him be a kid

There is an infinite number of other types of kids that CS is for. The trick is to channel each boys personality into something positive.

Anyone ever go Geocaching?

This is a great way to go on a hike with purpose. Check out this website http://www.geocaching.com/ . Find a local park with 3-4 caches, and have a blast. Be sure to bring the parents along!

So far we have learned that, So 98% of units do not operate like yours, is incorrect.

Based on this thread, the number may be more like 50% for the units operate with a less than beneficial relationship with their CO.

How about Committee strength?

We see many references and suggestions here in the forum that rely heavily on the existence of the perfect Charter Organization relationship, and the optimum Committee operation. I am wondering how many of you have that type of situation, OR, do you operate in the real world of a half hearted CO and bare bones Committee of people wearing two and three scouting hats?

As for my Pack, we have an absentee CO, and we have only one (1)real committee person that is not also a leader.

Whatever went on here, it is nobodys business except the potential ASM, IH and COR. The ASM certainly displayed an error in judgment by talking about this, but it shouldnt be his death sentence without a proper review of the circumstances.

Give the man his day in court; he should have a private conversation with the IH, and COR, that conversation should also include something about appropriate discussions within earshot of the kids.

In our solidly middle class town we have the same problem with our CSs. I think that in part, the families are just apathetic to the cause. They are happier and less inconvenienced to write a check, than they would be to help out with a fundraiser. The other part goes back to my ongoing lament about time management, they dont want to take up another Saturday or Sunday with a fundraiser.

And, as FOG has pointed out, we are under a constant barrage of fundraising requests from the PTA. The PTA fundraising is shameless, and unending!!!! Couple that with fundraisers for Girl Scouts, Soccer, Baseball, etc, etc, etc., and our people are simple fed up with fundraisers and a bit sensitive about engaging in another one.

I dont know how to answer this. Scouting is well thought of, but interest seems to be down. People are committing their childrens time to other endeavors and the adults are simply spread very thin.

Cub Scout enrollment is down by as much as 15%. # of units is down in both CS and BS. # of Crews is up, but # of Ventures is flat. BS enrollment numbers are also flat. # of adult leaders is also down. Of critical importance, financial support is way off.

Eamon,

I hear just the opposite about the Northeast Region, Im curious about where the truth lies?

Barry had the idea! Work the parents; they have to be there anyway. When the kids play a game, make the parents play with them. Do crafts that the parents have to help with, dont just let the kids scribble and call it a craft. Schedule each parent to take on an achievement, when its over, tell them how great it was, even if it wasnt.

I think meetings every other week with a go see it, and the pack meeting are more than sufficient for Tigers. If you have to sacrifice something get rid of the second weekly meeting. Make the go see its your centerpiece. Communicate, communicate, communicate, and communicate with your parents. Remember, parents have an expectation of Scouting. Make sure you fulfill that expectation. Most 6,7,& 8 year olds dont know that they want to be scouts, the parents put them in the program, keep the parents happy and the kids will stay.

I started with 17, ended with 15, one because mom just couldnt handle it, the other to soccer. The 15 are still with me three years later.

Eamon

If you want to do something for the Tiger Leaders I suggest that you can meetings for them. Pre- Plan and detail doable meetings for the new Tiger leaders. Program Helps can be a bit too much at times for an inexperienced leader. Include Go See It locations for them, contact numbers, bill of materials for craft items. Do a special Tiger section at RT, hand out and demonstrate / explain the canned meetings for them.

CubScoutMom2004,

Don't be afraid to ask the parents for there feedback! Your can't make adjustments if you don't know what direction to go in.

Boys will be Boys!! If youre going do the ballot thing, you need to have adequate controls over it. Im not surprised to hear that this happened. Id let it go, unless you can prove that this was something beyond a young boys mischievous behavior.

We had a boy two years ago that won the whole event. His car went like lightning, and he was a Tiger. A few months later he was at my house playing with my son and blurted out that his dad bought his Pinewood Derby car because he didnt have time to make it with him. As it turned out, this was a precision made built to run car, and it cleaned house!!! Of course my son heard the boy make this announcement and promptly told him that he cheated. The story circulated faster then his car.

The kids Dad is the head coach for a Div II College football team, you'd think he would know something about fairness!

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My employer is a large DOE contactor. We have many Scouters working here; my guess would be about 50 or more of 3000 employees. My boss is an ex ASM with an Eagle son. I have an ASM that works for me and our building custodian is a CM. I get great support in terms of both time and resources, as do other Scouters that work here. But we are all careful not to take advantage of it. In my case, my operation runs 24-7 which means that I'm expected to be available 24-7.That give me a fair amount of flexibility with my time.

There are two sides to this story. My employer has an obligation to be involved in the community and to support employees that volunteer in the community. When possible, they take every opportunity to take credit for the relationship they have with the Scouters who work here, and thats fine by me. Its a win-win all the way around.

FOG,

I also live in a similar area, and, I also wear my uniform around town as I go about my personal busisness before or after meetings. Like you I've never had negative comments.

I didn't mean to imply a public flogging while wearing the uniform in public places. My comments were on a much more personal level.

I see time and commitment being tied together.

Maybe its just the type of people who want their sons to be in scouting, but the overwhelming response I get goes something like this, Im already involved in other things and just dont have to time to commit to doing the job well. These are conscientious people. I know the other things that they are involved with, its not bull.

Sure, if I said Look, the program requires that I have 5 more leaders for this den, please just sign the application! they would sign with the understanding that they simply dont have the time and that I shouldnt expect them to be active leaders. What good would that do? None.

I dont think that any of my people are afraid of failure. I do think that they have an understanding of what it takes to do a good job. They are just too busy tending to the young family, volunteering as firemen, volunteering as EMT, as soccer coaches, baseball coaches, etc, etc, etc. The sports go year round, the fireman and EMT training has become excessive to a choke point, and they drive their kids to all the things that they are involved in. We are also a community where most of the women also work; simple math tells you that there are fewer people available to do this kind of thing.

I also think that there is another hurdle to signing up new leaders in this area. Warning, some of you wont like this. The controversial positions of BSA have made wearing the BSA uniform in some parts of the country a badge of honor. Thats not the case in all parts of country. Although Scouting may be OK for the children, an adult might not want to associate himself (or herself) too closely with the positions that have put Scouting in the news lately.

Overcomming the resistance -- It's simple, concentrate on people who want the job.

Just my two cents.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

I went to Webelos Leader Specific training last night. Not to my surprise, I learned that the leadership situation that I described for my pack was pretty much the same for all the packs represented by the attendees, and also the same for the trainers Packs. Although this was certainly not a very big group by any means, it certainly appears to be indicative of Scouting in this area.

I can even tell you about one large den where the parents decided that they wanted to have a Den Dinner without the kids. Basically a night out for the adults! But these people who are very happy with the program, and get along well, still won't sign the application.

le Voyageur,

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look for set. Good Luck with your oil skins.

foto

I am not a fan of ponchos either, but the gaiters are a great way to correct one of the shortfalls. My rain suit is a middle of road set with plenty of venting. But its still not vented enough. Sometimes Im just as wet on the inside as I am on the outside. One day when I hit the lottery, Ill but a good set of GoreTex rain gear. Until then Ill deal with it!

Our great Tiger den, with all its parents, who did a great job every month with the Tigers activities, soon became a Wolf den. Then a Bear den, still with all the great parents doing what ever is asked of them. Each September at the den Parents meeting the Adult Applications come out, and are discussed. Still no takers, they are involved in so many other things that they just wont make the commitment.

Here are my thoughts about signing them up as a group. First, I could not be so presumptuous as to sign them up without a desire on their part to be a registered leader in the BSA. Second, it would cost my pack money that we just dont have. Wed gladly spend the money on active leaders, but we cant go on a fishing trip with it. Third, if the parents of this den came to the yearly planning meeting, we would have to change the Pack number from its current number to Pack 3.since we are now Den 3. The planning meeting needs to be balanced with respect to all of the kids, and not overwhelmed by one age group.

Strong visuals here !!

Marty,

Good point about WLOT, except that again it highlights that fact that many Councils do things differently. I did WLOT as a one day (a long day) program. It focused on the outdoor activities badge. We did have to bring a tent with us, and we did have to set it up, but camping was not really a part of what was taught.

Some of the chatter here about adding or combining course is nice to see, I also wonder about doing some of that. But what would you drop, or how many more hours would you add to a class. Im not sure if that would help or hinder us in the quest to get leaders trained.

Terry, which ticket will you be running for President on? You have my vote!

Hi Dan,

Im glad to have helped you wake up this morning!

I dont think that Den camping could ever evolve into anything resembling patrol camping. The kids simply dont have the ability yet to do that. You could never get a bunch of CSs to setup their own tents, cook their own meal and do their own cleanup, all on their own. Webelos might move in that direction but CS wont. And in essence that concept is a piece of what Baloo attempts to teach. CSs go camping to have fun!

You are correct, there is no Den camping. Thats what were talking about here.

Dan, sometimes this is just like RT, a constant string of happy banter.