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fotoscout

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Posts posted by fotoscout

  1. In private camps you only tip the kid (s ) who worked directly with the child, Councilor & Asst. Councilor. Im thinking a small amount $5 or $10, just a little thank you. Nothing like the amounts suggested at private camps.

     

    I noticed a comment on another thread about tipping at Philmont Training Ctr. The point was made the tipping is not allowed at PTC. Is this a national policy, or is it in some way specific to PTC?

     

  2. If youve ever gone to, worked at, or sent your children to a private camp, you know that it is expected that you will tip the councilors at the end of the camp session.

     

    So, the question is, is it appropriate to tip Den Chiefs at CS Day Camp?

     

    My gut tells me that money would be inappropriate, but how about gift certificates for the Scout Shop, Movies, or Sports Authority?

  3. OXCOPS,

     

    Isnt it funny how things happen by coincidence? Youre having this meeting with the SE and CD, and, in barges this girl............ Wow!

     

    Thanks for bringing this to the forum, it was a good exercise for me and I suspect for many others as well. No one wants to suspect the worst in anyone and because of that many of us hesitate just like you did. I hope that this experience will help us all to be a little more proactive in our approach.

     

  4. That is a military attitude and not the philosophy of the patrol method which is built on participating citizenship not I order/you follow.

     

    First, the military attitude that you allude to is the war fighting model and the model set up for initial training. An extremely effective system for the purposes mentioned. However it is greatly over dramatize by Hollywood. In reality, the vast majority of military business gets done in the same way that any commercial business runs. Admirals dont run around barking orders to Captains. The Adm. says, look Capt. we need to get this done. The Adm. may ask the Capt. for suggestions, the Adm. may, based on experience, suggest a course of action, or the Adm. may just walk away. In any event its task driven, just like what we do.

     

    And quite honestly Bob, when that inevitable bad situation arises, be it a strange looking person approaching my CS, or a bear entering the campsite, or a serious medical problem on the trail I am going to want my kids (and parents) to follow instructions without delay. There are situations that require them to ask, How High? When I say Jump!

     

    If you fail to teach them that lesson then you are doing them a disservice.

     

     

     

     

  5. Virtually all great leaders will say that their leadership style evolved from the experience of working for others. Subordinates watch their superiors, they learn from them, this is a following skill. Baden-Powell, in all likelihood learned great things by following his teachers. He was probably a much better follower than you give him credit for. He learned what worked for him and what didnt work for him. When the opportunity came up, he put he put it all to work for himself.

     

    Note that I did not say good followers. Some people will never be good followers. But in the extreme the bad follows probably learn the greatest lessons. Being on the receiving end is a simple prerequisite for being on the giving end.

     

    Any way you slice it patrol members are followers. They are carrying out their responsibilities within the patrol based on the PLs wishes and to the PLs (patrols) satisfaction. The method that was used to get them to accomplish their task is of course of great interest to us, but the bottom line is that the patrol members each had to follow through with their assignments.

     

  6. Ed, you are 110% correct! The military says it in a somewhat more poetic way, In order to give commands you first have to learn to take commands this is the fundamental underlying principle of any society governed by the Rule of Law. And as a subset, it is the foundation of all organizations that function with a hierarchy. Without followers there would be no leaders, and with only leaders nothing would move forward.

     

    Do we teach following skills heck yeah we do!! Bob, we teach respect, respect for authority, and respect for our leaders. Now if those arent following skills I dont know what is.

     

    The boy that desperately wanted to be the SPL and did not get elected. The kid thats become bitter over losing the election, what skill do you think he is learning? How about that new scout who ended up doing dishes on his first camping trip with the troop? Ill save you the typing, he is learning to follow.

     

    One of the greatest experiences that our kids have is to have a real world opportunity to learn that not everyone can be in charge or be the leader. They have the opportunity to learn that teamwork really does work, but only if everyone follows the leader and does his share.

     

    Sure the leaders get to practice leadership skills as learned in the program, but what do you think everyone else is doing while the leader is leading?

     

     

     

     

  7. If this had been done by the book, and the boys of this provisional patrol had been allowed to elect a PL, would it have been acceptable to exclude any of the boys who were currently serving as an PL in a regular patrol from the election, thereby allowing others to have the leadership opportunity?(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

  8. Eamonn,

     

    There are now two hats for CS, a Wolf hat and a Bear hat. Marty is the CM. The question is which hat does he wear? The Wolf hat says Wolf on it and the Bear hat says Bear on it. Then of course there is the Webelos hat and the Tiger hat. So many hats and not enough heads to wear them on. Neither is really appropriate for the CM.

     

    Since I really dont like the powder blue on the Bear hat, I vote for anything other than the Bear hat. Actually, Im hoping that someone will find an allowance for me to wear my Campaign Hat.

     

  9. Hi Marty,

     

    I had a similar situation. In the end I ended up wearing the hat for my den at the time. The WB staff had no problem with that! Sometime later the manager of our Scout Shop offered to get me the correct hat; he said that he could get them. I havent seen the hat yet, but it might be worth the phone call to your local scout shop.

     

    I am curious to see what response comes up here about the campaign hat. I own a very nice one that dates back to the 50s. Id love to wear it but I wont because my understanding is that it is inappropriate for a Cub Leader.

     

    Enjoy the experience!!!

     

  10. Opportunity..

     

    Opportunity for shared experience that would not happen elsewhere.

    Opportunity to develop life long friendships

    Opportunity to develop a positive relationship with adults other than teachers and family.

    Opportunity to be both a follower and a leader.

    Opportunity to fail in a friendly supporting environment without recriminations, bad grades, or negative feedback.

    The opportunity to do it again and again and again until we get it right..

     

  11. Hi All,

     

    My son got his brown belt tonight! What a peacock! Of course my wife and I knew it was a given, but my son hasnt figured that out yet. Like some of the other schools, the kids are only invited to test when the Sensei is satisfied that they are ready.

     

    You know I never cease to be amazed at the capacity of a young child to learn anything. For almost 2 hours these kids when through their material. Sometimes by rote, sometimes on command but never missing a beat, never breaking stride, always confident and sure of what they were doing. Just amazing.

     

  12. Hi Bob,

     

    AS I sit here I hold in my hand a form entitled, Parental Informed Consent and Hold Harmless/Release Agreement. It is printed on the reverse side of a Class 3 Personal Health and Medical Record Form. The release is specifically written for C.O.P.E. or Climbing Program offered through our local Council and is part of the paper work required by our Council for participation in the Climbing Program at Cub Scout Day Camp / Resident Camp. With all due respect, I do not think that Council would waste postage stamps on tinder. At least I would hope not.

     

    If you followed the thread about the BS who barely passed his Swimmer test and wanted to go on the Canoe trip with his troop, you know what my thoughts are about water safety. I spent the first 30 years of my life at times literally living on the water. Ive been certified as a Ocean Lifeguard, Water Safety Instructor, and WSI Trainer all Red Cross. With respect to the BS going with his troop, the restrictions are warranted. They may be miles from nowhere and high on teenage hormones, with limited adult supervision, on unknown waters, possibly dealing with unknown environmental elements. The situation I propose here is very different. We are on flatwater, in good weather, with a parent in charge of each boat, immediate cell phone access, and rescue personal only minutes away. Does that mean its a free for all, of course not! But it does mean that we need to be more realistic in our requirements. One size does not fit all. Calling for a 100 yard swim is simply an exclusionary clause. My educated guess is that 1 in 100.000 CS could do that. Simply an unrealistic requirement for this kind of outing. Calling for a certified Lifeguard in each boat is similarly incredulous. Quite honestly it conjures up thoughts about the competency of the individual who wrote that line. One of the things that we learn very quickly on the waterfront is that there are never enough lifeguards to go around. To expect that an adequate number of lifeguards could be conjured up for an outing like this is unreasonable. Even if it was done at a council facility.

     

    Believe it or not Bob, a half-day, fair weather, flatwater outing in a canoe with mom or dad is an entry-level experience for young kids. The more I look at it, the more I want to believe that something other than safety was the guiding factor in assembling the restrictions that we see.

     

    I certainly agree that there are irresponsible leaders out there, but making our safety guidelines excessive to protect against the relatively few irresponsible leaders is kind of like living our lives in fear of the terrorists.

     

     

  13. Bingo! That's exactly my point Bob.

     

    Look at all those requirements. Are we ignorant to think that the millions of American families who embark on a leisurely canoe trip this summer will satisfy all of those requirements? Do you think that all those parents are irresponsible? Now remember we are not talking about moving water or even whitewater. We are talking about a location specifically selected because of its appropriateness for young kids.

     

    How many CS do you know that can pass a 100 yd swim test? Not many I suspect. I dont think that I know of any.

     

    Bob, I understand the argument, from a national viewpoint and from the perspective of a CO, I understand the argument. Think of it for a minute, this is the perfect den activity. Sure it would be fun as district activity, but with 30 or 40 boats it would be a little less personal. Even as a district activity Id wonder if we would ever be able to put a lifeguard in every boat, then what would you do with the parent?

     

     

    A half day canoe outing, with a parent, on a flat body of water is not a risky activity. I am quite certain that a trip to the skate park has much greater risk associated with it. My initial comment was that I though that we should do something to make this kind of outing more accessible to CS. The answer may be in a Hold Harmless document, or maybe in pre selected bodies of water approved by local Council.

     

    I dont where the answers will ultimately lie, but I can tell you that when we tell our parents that we cannot do a canoe trip because we cant possible meet Scoutings requirements for the trip, they laugh at us. More precisely they laugh at the requirements. To make matters worse, this is a very common activity done under the guise of a Family outing for many packs in this area.

     

    BTW, I haven't ruled out rowboats. But I think that kids will get less out rowboating than canoeing. It takes more strength to row and the kids could not possibly row the boat by himself with dad looking on. In a canoe the kids can paddle to their little hearts content from the bow and contribute to the adventure.

    (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

  14. How about if we made the Tailoring MB the 1st badge that a new scout had to earn. It would be OK for him to be out of uniform until he earned the badge. To complete the badge requirements he would have to make a complete BS uniform.

     

    It would satisfy the affordable portion of the uniform question. And just think for a minute how good all those scouts would look in their own handmade uniforms. :)

     

     

     

  15. Bob,

     

    Take my Lake Stillwater for example, how would I do this activity as a den acitivity? G2SS says that CS can only go canoeing as a "council/district outdoors programs only", same for rafting and rowing is out completely. As I mentioned earlier, our district doesn't do this stuff, except for some canoeing for camp goers.

     

     

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