FireKat

Pack, I have has great respect for your advice. You actions right now suprise me. Please let it go so we can move on to other things. If you continue to have problems with moderators, take it up with the owner. Dragging this out is not too scout-like.

All moderators are just human and as such will upset some people at times. You occasionally may disagree with what they did but it is done. Let them know your point of view as a chance to improve (a gift as mentioned by many) then let it go. Trying to drag out your anger just upsets a lot of people.  Let other moderators and Terry deal with it. State your point and move on.

Moderators have a hard job and I think these have done good jobs. If you wish to know who is a moderator, just look next to their name and you will find * means they are a moderator. No secret. Thank y'all for your work!!

Knowing ones weakness is a sign of maturity. Delegating to a better person is a sign of leadership.  A good leader knows who is the best and puts them into the right position. Do not feel bad if you appoint a better marcher to lead if you are not good at it.

Just being curious, what is this march?

Mostly, I think the moderators have been doing a great job on this site. I have not notice the thngs that have got others upset. I may (and probably did) miss the discussions in question. I do not use the 'ignor' function unless the person is just spouting junk that has no relevence to the discussion. If they just post views I personally do not like in a fair way, that is their right and I may learn something from them none the less. Yes, they can and do upset me at times but I know they have a right to ther opinions, just as I have a right to mine. I try to see if the opposition side may have vaild points. I welcome criticism if it given in a teaching way, not to insult. I am always trying to learn. As long as the moderators allow free discussion of oppisite points of views I will support them.

"If he doesn't have his First Aid kit, it is difficult to practice First Aid."

I would like to politly disagree to this. Unless the scout keeps that bag with him 24hrs/365 they need to learn how to deal with emergencies with just what they can scrounge up. Take the boys at the camp hit by a tornado - that sort of bag might be gone along with other formal kits. I try to teach how to use what is around to do the job. Please do not make them feel that they cannot do anything to help someone without access to one of these bags, but I do love the general concept of trying to keep these bags around.(This message has been edited by firekat)

I have noticed over many years that people (especially the young) learn more from making mistakes and having to correct them than from just rote learning and reguritating thing without understanding. Error are a good time for explanations to why something is done. Tests can be good or bad depending on who and how they handle the sitituation. A person can be humiliated or instructed. It is up to the adults to set a good example on how to teach.  Initiations used to be a teaching thing then they became someting to humiliate the new people.

What happened to doing what you can because it is what is the human thing to do not for what you can get out of it?

Thank you a million times!! Sir(s)/Madam(s) Anonymous of the world! May you long enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling and, Yes also big thank yous to all others that do those things for the right reasons, not the bragging rights.(This message has been edited by firekat)

One boy just came back from ordeal, disappoinded as it was not as descibed by others. Only 2hr of work then get back together into large groups. None of the isolation others describe. Is this not normal now? or just our area.(This message has been edited by firekat)

How about bully kids with bully parent that imply that if bully 'Johnny' does not get in they will 'do something' (hinting at lawsuit) which scares the SM. So he just throws all first class scouts out for OA. No filtering because someone just might sue. Many times it is parents that are the problem and convice their kids to exclude other kids so their 'Johnny' will look better against what is left. These psrents bully to get their boys into OA as it looks good on a resume.

Side note: one of the better boys who just went to his ordeal came back, upset as they only had them do 2 hours of service work. Then they got into a large group. Not what was expected. I think there goes another service oriented scout leaving OA as they don't do service much. And they wonder why the chapter is dying.

In reading a lot of the topics and posts it seems like there is a new trend in scouting buy your way.

Item new Eagle knot

Item PTC knot

Now, there is nothing wrong with bestowing something on generous donors but this has gone beyond that.

No longer is it possible for working class people be acknowledged for their efforts unless they can spend $$$$ for formal training. Natl has seemed to gone the way of many other things in the society by requiring you to have a certificate for anything you wish to do. This creates a business of schools to train. The only way to do it is spend $$$ sitting through a class that you could probably teach better but you dont have the certification. Tell me how that helps the kids? Now you lose the natural mentors in favor of the certified ones that could spend the money (and time away from work) and still are not dealing with the boys effectively. (but they are Certified !! )  

Has natl gone into the world of money means more than anything else?

What happened to its for the boys??

Handing out rewards (knots) like candy makes them mean less. And buying them really devalues them. Remember the participant ribbons? Did it make the kids feel better about not getting first place? Not mine. Would buying a blue ribbon or a trophy really mean anything?

Lastly, why does a quality council, unit, district be directly related to numbers or money?  How does that help the individual boy?

John, I know that some OA chapters are still good but ours, like the council, seem only be concerned about numbers and money. They are going for quanity, not quality. Nat'l appears to only be concerned about numbers. Numbers do not mean the program is good.

John-in-KC wrote EagleSon's Scoutmaster annually had a simple talk with each year group of boys. Talked about the values of the Order: Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service.

I wish the elections would select for that.

(Rant)

My son has given up on OA as it has just become a popularity contest and a method to hurt others.  In troops around here those boys that cheerfully server others are the last ones to be voted to OA. Those that double dip or over estimate their service hours and do the bare minimum are the popular ones voted to OA.  Most of the time the parents cannot get them to ordeal because the boys dont want to do more work (service).  These boys get reelected the next year with similar results.  Meanwhile the boys that do service work with a smile and always have many more hours than needed to advance to the next rank are not voted to the OA. The others use not being elected as a type of punishment to those that do the work. This includes teasing that they did not get in. I told my son to not worry about OA and to concentrate on what makes him feel as if he matters service to others that do appreciate what he does.

OA in our area is dying, most likely due to that type of members that they have now. These just wanted the bragging rights. Once they have them, why do more work.

I now think if ever my son did get voted to OA he would turn it down. Why spend time on something that is smoke and mirrors of service when you can spend your time on real service.  My son learned a long time ago the true meaning of service, it is not what you get for it but the warm fuzzies within you and the smiles on the faces of those you help. How many of you have to restrict the amount of volunteer work your son does? We do, as he loves to  help others.

Sorry for the long rant but it hurts when a kid is taunted for doing what the scouting oath says to do. Mine is not the only one I have seen this happen to, I see it all over.

If you remove the ignore, how would the troublemakers know when they are slipping in their duties?

...the music you listened to and your parents banned from the house is now the piped music in elevators and grocery stores.

My son is also working our camp. He is scheduled to be there all summer.That is enough to really worry a mother. My heart goes out to all those parents who now have to deal with sorrow. I am proud of the scouts who did as we all hope all scout would do in helping each other. These are truly the best of their generation. They have learned to care for their fellows.

As to hearding everyone into a large, open area structure - well I better not say.  It seems to come from schools who heard kids into gyms. One of the dumbest things I can think of. You have a large expance of unsupport roof over everyone.  It may be easier to track kids but highly dangerous.  Small groups in smaller areas would be safer. I always taught my son to go to a reinforced area. Small roof area, extra walls, pipes in the walls. 

I hope some camps will look more closely at were to direct kids to go in bad weather and to not try to bunch them up in an unsafe area.

Hint to those that go to ditches - teach to watch out for flooding risks. Flooding kills many more than tornados.

Be safe

firekat

You want hot?  Try fighting fires in So. Texas heat and humidity wearing fire protection gear or Hazmat suits.  You learn a lot of tricks.  Best one is - Bananas -  Works even on those that imbib a bit much of adult beverages.  Worked well at fire school in July at Texas A&M.  Encourage all to have at least one with breakfast.  Stay away from caffine.

Wet bandanas or gell filled ones around the neck do wonders. Remove at intervals to recool them. For those that really cannot handle heat the sharper image co had a little device that does work (a friend with MS had one).

For both thefirst aid kit and where to get good gear contact your local fire dept or who ever does emergency rescue in your area. They know the hazards you will be facing so can help you put together the kits.

In reading the comments in this post and some of my recient experences with how OA membes get elected I think you can find the answer to the lack of participation and preforming tasks in the quality of the scouts elected. In our area it has become a popularity contest and the scouts who do the most service and work are not the popular ones. They do not get elected so you no longer have workers just those that want the honor but really do not want more work. (the ones who double or more count a service hour and do bare minimum for advancement).  The OA system is broken and it will slowly cause AO to die unless something gets changed. I hope older members and those that can will take a magifing glass to what is happening before it becomes too late.

To anyone with a special needs boy, look and keep looking till you find a troop that your scout fits with. The benefits will be worth it. Some do better in a full SN troop and some get great benefits from regular troops. Alot depends on the parents and the boys in the troop.

We have an autistic boy in our troop that gained alot from his interactions with the adults and the older boys when he join the troop. He joined a few months before my son so I have watched how he has grown and changed by this interaction. His councilor has also seen great improvement because he is in scouts. He is now a star scout without any changes need in the requirements. Yes, it has taken him a bit longer to get there but he wanted to do what all others did. This was hard as he had some major problems with water. We are now looking into an age extension so he can continue to benefit from scouts as long as possible. 

Helping young men grow and become self-reliant is what scouts is all about. It is really noticable in those that need the most help. That is when you get the best felling that you, as a leader, are making a difference in all the boys' lives.

The uniform with the iron on patches where the shirt went thru some rough times outdoors, teaching the boys the right and wrong ways of doing things. Also the one the boys gather around to listen to.

MacyM,

Welcome!  Sorry that you felt that the questioning of the truth of the post upset you.  If you read some other posts you will see why some forum members are distrustful, especially in the political section.

Most forum members will bend over backward to help a person who asks a question here. Stick around and join the virtual campfire and keep asking questions.

I cannot go back to a troop that starts to question my eligibility to counsel merit badge outside of the Troop time! When I resigned my ASM position, at the request of several boys and parents, I continued to function as a merit badge counselor. This past February, I did not recharter with the troop (but still registered with BSA on the Pack side). So they question my elgibility.Get someone, UC, DE whoever to correct this. You do not have to be a member of the BSA to be a Councilor.

Merit badge councilors do not have to be paid members of BSA or a troop or pack, etc. They must turn in an app but do not pay. That is so members of the community with the needed expertise can work with the boys without any obligation to a troop.

If this is the general attitude of the adults I can see why you wish to not be associated with them. (This message has been edited by firekat)

OneHour, have you though about staffing? District, camp or council?  How about helping a struggling Pack?  If you were in our area I would beg you to be our unit commissioner! We need some good people desperatly! You don't have to work with the troop which gave you trouble but they may end up seeing what they are missing. Keep looking as there are many places you will be very welcomed.

Kat

Notice on our council's website:

"Adult Leader Training Amnesty Period

Over the past few years, the training status of unit leaders has been recorded in the national registration system. System problems have lead to that information becoming unavailable or unreliable. In order to correct the situation, BSA national has repaired the system but we need to re-create the training records for the council." 

It  goes on to explain how to resubmit the information. Check with your local councils for how they want the information or if you even need to.

Ours is simply half logs with holes drilled in them to hold the candles. The bottom log is long enough for a second one to be mounted on top (cut so it sits firmly). Six on each side, three in the top. As the troop ages the wax builds and adds to the effect. Simple, thrifty, and may in the long run, mean more to the boys especially if they come back as adults.(This message has been edited by firekat)