FireKat

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/snipe

 NOUN: pl. snipe or snipes

1)Any of various long-billed shore birds of the genus Gallinago or Capella, related to the woodcocks and sandpipers, especially the common, widely distributed species G. gallinago or C. gallinago. Any of various similar or related birds.

2)A shot, especially a gunshot, from a concealed place.

 intr.v. sniped , sniping , snipes

To shoot at individuals from a concealed place. To shoot snipe. To make malicious, underhand remarks or attacks.

I was taught to only play jokes on people you like that way all know it is for fun not meanness. I have had many played on me and I still fall for them - hook, line, and sinker!   

Kids will always play jokes. Set some ground rules and tell them to think long and hard before doing anything.

Trust me, I would not keep my son in an "eagle mill" and if it changes to that we will move troops (some discussion on that has occured). That is why we joined this troop - they expect alot from the boys so they get it. I do not wish to see the expecations for WORKING for ranks/badges reduced to the "Miil" level. Not all scouts obtain eagle... one of the SM's sons stopped at life by choice. I wish to keep this rep.

The MB councilor for Citizenship found the boys not interested but the parents said they must attend. Also the parent hinted that attendeees will get the badge and it is not upto the MBC. That is an attitude I do not want in my son's troop.

Confederate flag it can be a very touchy subject in The South. Kids now days use it as a symbol of rebellion from parents. An announcement that they are breaking free. Most dont see the problems/pain it can cause to some people. My oldest son started displaying it a few years ago and I found it in bad taste so I had a long talk with him. I told him my feelings and historical uses of it and he told me how the kids view it now. He had many friends of different races and many of them use the reb flag to. I told him that if he displayed it some people might wish to fight over it. He said he would be careful not to try to offend anyone with it. He did not flaunt it if someone had an objection.

I think that if someone has an objection to an item they should ask politely to remove to offending item and use that time as a chance to teach why it can be offensive.

IDIC

Viva la difference

To each their own

firekat

I have chewed over why people are not joiners many times. All I can figure out is the way a person was raised and trained.

Resqman wrote: The Me generation does not seem to be very interested in We. My son's high school requires community service hours to graduate. I am interested to find out more specifics about the requirements and what he will choose to do to meet these requirements. I am curious, how many hours are needed? I hope the kids dont double-up on the community service time, i.e. taking credit in more than one place for the service they perform. In scouts I have had parents tell my son to count service hours for stuff he does as a member of another organization. I do not let him do this as if he wishes to belong to a group he needs to do what is require without expecting fringe benefits of service credit being applied to another group. This is a personal choice to help him understand that being in a group means it takes some of your free time and to learn to pick and chose what he wants to spend his time on. Luckily, we have a boy who really enjoys being a joiner! We have to slow him down.

Thanks for the great insights. I wish we could retain the retiring SM but we all agree with his reasons for stepping aside (possible post later as it ddeals with COuncil issues but one problem at a time)

The new SM is good at handling things with much experence. He likes to be patient on many situations but this may not be one time to be patient. I do not wish our troop to lose its great rep. It is harder to get back than to try to get the new parents to see. Training is good but if they see the training thru their interpetation of how to do things, all the training in the world will not help. (these are the type that are pushing 10yos to go thru the Citizenship MB series)

I will try to get the CC &/or COR to talk with them. Much better they do this as I have always been one to jump at people not being ethical or respectful, adults or kids.

Thanks again!

Sorry this is long and took awhile. I do not want to ever discourage gung ho people but this went a bit beyond just that..

A bit more on the problem: these parent attended summer camp & got the fast start training. Now some think they know it all (we all know that you are always continuing to learn). They also ignore/overlook parents/leaders who have been running things like they do not know anything. Flat ignoring what is said even by a member with over 20yrs in scouts(more knots than I have seen before, well known and respected by Council etc.)

Also it is beginning to appear that one adult is trying to change our troop form one with an excellent reputation of high expectations and produce eagles to one more of giving away ranks/badges. This adult explained things to the new parents. The adult also tried to load same-minded individuals onto the committee. There was also some other problems (not related to these situations) causing a need for a new SM (no I am not SM, on Committee). The committee had discussed & appointed a previous excellent SM to the position (On who stepped aside for another great SM to have the experience). During the interim, one new adult announced he was SM. The committee members looked at each other, confused. We just ignored the announcement and continued to work with the appointed SM. These adults had just been thru the first round of BS training at summer camp. One still acts like the boys are in cubs, AFTER the training. (It was not our Councils camp so I am wondering the quality of the training or is it the individual)

We are a mostly boy-run group except for the gap times when there is few/no older boys, until the boys get the hang of things. Our parents, in general (male/female/occasional sibling) love to be at activities/fundraisers with the boys. Situations are handled by PLC &/or SM/ASMs. If a parent sees a situation, it is brought to the attention of them to be handled. We are just there to enjoy being with the boys.

Also we have one adult who keeps quoting according to the by-laws no one has ever seen these by-laws. Is it a BSA requirement to have written by-laws?

What do you do with new parents who were active at the pack level that within a few months of crossover think they (should, can, do - fill in with whatever fits) run the troop?

Most take the time to see how things are going before getting into leadership but occasionally some come in & think they know it all. No one wants to discourage parent participation but this starts splitting a troop apart.

Note: some of the new boys also reflect the same attitude of the parent.

Any comments would be welcomed.

Thanx, FK

It all seems to be part of the "dumbing down" of Society. If it is too hard we are being 'cruel to expect so much'. Many times when the subject of MBs comes up some parent will pipe in with "do that one at camp because they don't expect you to do it all in a week and they get the MB anyway ". This seems especially true for the Eagle requirements which are the harder ones.

What's next? Doing the hiking MB by walking around a mall or the cycling MB on stationary bike in AC? I hope that the Scouts do not continue to follow this trend. Hold the boys to the original values and ethics.

"The Council is only wanting numbers for troops yet won't assist this troop with recruitment"

That sounds very familiar and brings up a question I have: How are Quality units, councils etc determined?

Our council is very busy trying to star new troops, packs, etc but then not giving them any help on what to do. In the last few years they have created many that many times don't last a year or 2. Meanwhile the older troops & packs struggle to get enough kids (we are a rural area with a limited number of kids).

Do others have this problem?

"...if the scout thought intuitively he would have gone out on the canon report and when he found out that it was a joke, turned it around on the SPL."

To BSAT17SPL:

Your ideas are a bit on the extreme side, more along the feuding lines .

Why not come back WITH a cannon report.. a bag that a cohort pops as the scout answers the inevitable question of "where is it?" with "right here" (bang goes the bag)

Keep the turnaround within the frame of the original joke.

And always remember . Don't take life seriously..it ISN'T permanent!!!

Unfortunately, I too am a smoker. This is a physical addition of the body of all people by niciotine where alcohol is not addicting except in a small minority. (look up the definations). This makes it very hard on a smoker to go long without a 'nic fix. My dad was a smoker & a forester & expeceted the "leave no trace" precent forest fires. He show some very good ways a smoker can comply. My favorite is to make sure your butt cannot cause a fire: put it out & put it in your pocket. That way you do not leave any trash & if you did a bad job of putting it out you are the only on to pay (the non-smokers love it when the smoker hops around). I always try to stay away for the boys but that can teach them how to sneek around to smoke themselves.

I also very much agree with OGE that moderation & modeling proper behavior in alcohol use is best. Worked great on my oldest (now 21, drinks once a year) even though he was exposed to many people(firefighters) drinking heavy at times. I have some great stories 0f these things. DSon't want to bore you so I will finish by saying that I like the policies in general with tobacco and alcohol.

What do you do if the council doesn't send you a list of approved councilors? What if they lost paperwork on the MBC but have no policy to acknowledge that a person is Ok'ed to teach, only if they are rejected? Is he/she in the wrong for teaching, not knowing the paperwork was lost, in this no list system.

As to limits on numbers a person can really be qualified to teach:

How can you limit a person with a much varied life in favor of a kid of maybe 18 to teach some of the more in-depth badges? There are a few of us strange birds that can cover many subjects extremely well. Here is a short bit of my life experience. Count how many MB subjects it can cover:

Daughter (and major tagalong growing up) of an internationally know forester who received many awards on environmental protection before it was a buzz word.

Degrees - BS and MS in biological science , minor in chemistry

Award winning artist in multiple media

Award winning photographer

Webpage designer/ computer geek

10+ years as a Vol. firefighter with training in hazardous materials

20+ years vol. EMT with years paid work on ambulance.

Part-time College Biology/ A&P/ Microbiology instructor

I could list more and there are some of the general life things like cooking, swimming and on that I don't even count. Yes I am a strange, esoteric bird, one not found often. Should I be limited to 7 only if I can help some scouts get the hard to find councilors for MBs? I cannot sit on the sidelines when I feel I can help.

Sorry for going on so much but others input into how to be a good councilor is very important to me and I am such a strange case.

Thank you all again for your points of view!

K

(note: yes, I can drive my husband & kids crazy )

Thanks for the clarification, OGE. This old scientist has a tendency to see thing a bit different than some at times, thats why I ask many questions. It helps me see things at a different angle. In some ways I hope my son finds others to teach these MBs as he is a bit terrified on how hard I would be on him but he really wants to learn these things. I am afraid of the MBM like summer camp. I cannot see how they can teach some like astronomy or environmental science in the week of camp. I brought up at a meeting that I was looking to start on ES to let the kids know and one parent said why bother when they can get it at camp "with a lot less work". I cringed but let it go. That does not seem to me to be the correct attitude to have on learning. And who's to say if the person/ kid will not spend the time, as others have seen, playing games. The value of a MB is the knowledge acquired not the little embroidered patch.

To FScouter:

You must live in a rich world where all kids have 2 parents. Some of the kids I am refering to who can afford the high prices are from single parent (mostly mothers) families who can even really afford school supplies much less overprice shirts. These boys are the type that can really benifit from scouting but can you see them trying to explain to their welfare councilor why they had to spend up to $200 to get into scouts? Don't act like it is a rich persons hobby and think of those the program really could help - the at risk kids. I am hoping to help get our troop into a position to give 'scholarships' to those that really want to be scouts but are from struggling families.

Thank you all for your comments. They are very insightfull and usefull.

To OGE: you are proud that your son got a bunch of esoteric badges that you did not sing off as you had another Dad in the troop that counciled them. Well, I am the one in our troop/ local area that does those, making it good for the other parents but creating the problem for my son. Did your esoteric dad in your troop teach his own son or struggle to try to find someone else to teach his son those badges?

I have read some of the comments on parents signing off on their kids MBs. My main question is if you are the only know councilor for that on in your general area should you sign them? I am new to MB counciling and do not wish to anger anyone but seem to be the only one available for some MBs. I also read in the books that the minium number of scouts to teach is two. I had planned to make sure that at leaste one other non-related scout attends any I have my son do. I would like to know how others feel about this policy. Thanks for your input!

I really agree. My son has friends that want to join but thier parents are afraid of the costs. Our troop keeps out grown spairs for some that can't afford the $$. We have found some great Offical uniform items at our local Good Will store very cheap.

The basic question is: are they there for a fasion show or to learn good life values?

(I still like looking at all the neat stuff & wish a bit)

I am new to being a MB councilor and feel a bit lost. I have not even recieved any offical OK from our Council as an MB councilor. We have been told that no response means we are OK. We don't get lists of area councilors to try to contact for the kids. It feels a bit like the council would rather the MB come form camps etc. I don't know if I should push to get some type of list from Council or try to wing itand find them by asking everyone if/what the teach.

I also get the impression from some of the area adults that expecting the kids to spend more time on a badge than they would in summer camp is unfair. I know what I think I should do (stand my ground and expect the work - specifically the Enviromental Science MB. "why waste the time when you can do it in a week at camp" is what I was told) but I would like to get some input from adults with more experence in dealing with these things