FireKat

My pet peeve phase is "fourty years ago..."

This came in fire department meetings.  Everyone knows they have long traditions but must change with the times for life or death reasons.  One old FF kept resisting any change and started every argument with that phase.  Even the new use of air packs.

Change when  it is needed not just because you can.

GREAT idea, 1HOUR!

We all need to 'stop and smell the roses'.

Revel in the small triumphs.

I love it when a boy's face lights up because he gets it!

Brian,

Please stop comparing scouts to burger king.  That is a commerical place trying to make money.  Scouts is an origanization trying to build people.

Change to be "cool" or in style is just plain dumb. Have you noticed that disco is making a comeback?

An example of problems with trying to be in style:  Our hospital has been expanding a lot lately and the aparently want to be "stylish".  They have bought high priced picture to replace the inspiration ones that many people liked. But the worst thing, IMO, is their "stylish" furniture.  I have, unfortunatly, had to be in the emergency room a few time reciently and the chairs in the patient waiting area are so uncomfortable that I came close to laying on the floor.  Even people not in pain cannot sit in any comfort.  But, when VIPs tour the place they can show off their up-to-date style.

Focus on the kids not circulation and profits.

FK

P.S. most kids I have talk with do not want any major changes in scouting

Good points, Eamonn.  The point should be a more unique item like the girl scout cookies. 

Schools are so into having the kids do sales fundraisers around here that last year it was non-stop during the school year.  People are getting tired of being constantly asked to buy stuff by the kids that they are no longer having that guilt feeling when they say no to the kids. Unless is is something they cannot get elsewhere they will pass it up.

That is how I am feeling now & I used to always support any good cause, even when I did not need it.

FK

P.S. I am now restricting the amount of fundraising for school stuff my son does. Where did the lottery monies go???(for Texans)

Will they really listen or will the money people have the final say?

My son is on his second handbook since crossing over 3 yrs ago and this one is also falling apart. I even got the plastic cover and had him keep it in a bible book case but due to the number of times certain pages are looked at some of the pages are now falling out.  I have a feeling that they want parents to buy more books but that means his records are all over the place.  Plus, how many parents have the time to continously transfer information from one book to another.  Anyone else have this problem and/or a solution?

Thanx

We, also have been questioned by our council on why we stopped selling popcorn. The answers are simple:

1.   Too many troops and packs are selling it in a small community. We dropped it so the other troop and packs could make more money with less compitition.  (see item 7 in BSA 34427A Unit Money-Earning Application)

2.  As stated wallyworld, etc, sells the same item at a much lower price (see item 6 on above mentioned doc)

3.  Cute little boys (cubs) can get much better sales than gangly teens so let them make all the money possible from the popcorn.

4. The other types of fundraiser are easier for the older boys to do than the younger. That means a bit less parent burnout from doing the work on the other types of fundraiser.

5. Profit to work ratio on popcorn sale vs our other fundraisers make it not cost effective.  (are we not trying to teach real world facts and choices?)

We need to let the boys make their choices, not be pressured by council.

I think council is concerned about their share in popcorn sales and we have thought about that and have just started discussing sharing some with council now that we have finally gotten to a point where all boys are paying for their summer camp by working at these fundraisers. (maybe, someday we will get our trailer like the other troops)

Happy Trails

"1 in 20 units closed up in a single year (2005 vs 2004). Talk about a wake up call! "

I live in a small town. We have so many troops that it became impossible for some troops to sell popcorn as the compition was too much.  Well, council keeps trying to start MORE troops instead of really supporting what exists.  Durning the time frame you are talking about our council formed about 3 new troops which folded in that time also.  You can keep a troop going with about a dozen boys but when the numbers fall below that there is not enough volunteer support to keep them going. 

 Do not focus on troop/pack numbers but look more at numbers of boys.

(chuckling....) 

Thanks for the smile!

I think you hit it - talk to the kids!

But you must listen to what they say.  We adults think we know what it best or what they want. 

As to change:  I do not want to see change for changes sake or as a new money-making ploy as has occured in other area such as cheerleading.  Remember when there was just one uniform?  How many do they have now and how much does it cost the parents?

Other threads are touching on this subject along with other topics so I thought one just on this should be started.

 I, personally, like many traditions. I also like some changes. It is hard to find a balance between the two.

Our church has traditional services but has also started non-traditional type services. I tried the new ones at the urging of my son who likes them. I found them not quite to my tastes but I do not advocate stopping them just because I do not care for them. They get the job done by encouraging more of younger people to go to church. But should they stop the traditional services?

Scouts is an old organization with an interesting history. I dont think that we should dump traditions just to try to get a few more numbers.

Update a few things to stay with the times but do not wholesale trash things because they are traditional (i.e. stuffy, not cool, not modern, not hip, and all the other slang that has been used over the last 100 years)

Your views?

FK

Without a lot more details it sounds a bit like you like to be in control. A common proble with many of us.  It is time to let people do what they can for the troop. The more they are involved the better the troop.  And you know all people like to 'be in charge' of something. 

Sit back and let things go for a bit.  Unless they are trying to change BSA requirements and policies. 

If the boys are doing the leading, where is the problem?

What is the area of contention in the adult ranks? Tell us the details of the problem.

Scouting IS hard.

It has been designed to help form the future leaders. Not all can be leaders.

Why do the marines recruit with the phrase looking for the few?

SemperParatus said: I'd rather have a troop of a dozen highly committed scouts that understand and appreciate their dedication to and involvement in a century-old organization that has been at the vanguard of character development and speaks to them personally for a higher calling, then a troop of 100 lukewarm, middle of the road, could care less, speed through the dorkiness, quit as soon as my parents let me, scouts.

That dozen or so are the new leaders.

Not all are cut out for the hard work and independent thinking scouts require. My son tries to get some of his friends involved but after a short time they give up saying it is too much work. These are the kids that cannot do anything without electricity. (ever watched these kids during a blackout with no batteries?)

No, scouting is not a cool thing now but fads change.

Cubs is a thing all kids can do as it is open to parent help, then comes the first taste of real world life in boy scouts with the boy doing things on their own. It seems that one of two things happen to cause the loss of boys; parents are too used to doing it for their son and dont know or dont want to stop so they stop bringing their son to meetings (is it that they are feeling left out?) The other thing is that the boy himself does not want to put forth the effort to earn the ranks. Kids now are too used to having things handed to them.

Lets just keep our standards high even if it means less numbers.

As for new troops, packs, etc failing in our area, a lot seems, IMO, to be due to lack of help by council. Council seems to be more interested in making new, not helping what exist. New troops need lots of help.

Question to brianbuf: I was wondering about your personal feelings on traditions and old stuff. Do you just want to change all or keep some of the things that tie the generations together?

hummm...

I think we need a bit more info before commenting.....

first question.... is it a boy lead troop?

You learn and retain more by making mistakes and correcting them (or working around them) than by doing it correctly.

"Two parents came forward and complained because advancement was being held up. Their position was the boys attended the class in good faith and if the MBC failed to do the job the boys should not be punished by having the badges withheld. One parent said "If I sign up for training and attend the class but the staff does not cover the correct material I should not be penalized and asked to give up more of my time to retake the class.""

I am curious if these parents would go to a doctor who sat in classes but the staff does not cover the correct material and still got his MD?

Should they get MB if they sleep/play/daydream in an over crowded MB class just because they were there?

I still like small groups with more time than a week.

FK

You can chew this topic till the cows come home but it all boils down to the teaching of Jesus in the Golden Rule:

 Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

Sometimes we need to remind them to walk a mile in another person's moccasins to help set (or reset)their moral compass. With all the "me first" bombardment by the media, kids forget what the right thing is. Adults need to model the right thing and continue to teach ethics. Life is contant learning.

When it comes to my son, if I feel he did not complete the work I will make sure he does more or I will not put the MBP on. If he cannot look at the patch and explain to someone what it is and what he learned I don't want him to wear it.

 I hear this grumble all over. IMO I think National needs to address this. Time to put the values back into scouts.

This is an issue that has been very vexing for this unit in the past. I have given up trying to make the council aware of the problem or trying to communicate to them some reasonable solutions. I sincerely believe they do not care. I agree with this except the giving up part.

If we give up, they win. Lets all try to fight this together, please, for the sake of the boys!

See Be Prepared...for life and the future? for more on this.

Trevorum, you said   Look outside your neighborhood. Think globally.

You forgot the rest of it think globally but act locally.

To change the nation or world we must first change things around us that we CAN change. Be it scouts or schools IMHO we must make the young see where things are going.

 If we expect high goals from the kids we will get more from them. Making things easy for them just hurts everyone in the long run. Expect them to WORK for their ranks and badges and you will produce excellent citizens who may be the one to change the direction of the nation. I

IMHO, as a vocal group this forum may make it possible to change attitudes of merit badge mills and rank happy groups see that they are also hurting themselves as well as the scouts and the nation. We need to stop supporting the MBMs, IMHO . Dont pick camps with low standards. Let them know you dont want things easy but as the sprit of scouting dictates.

Fire the joy of learning something new in the boys. Not the I have more pieces of cloth than you attitudes. Start with your troop, then your council, etc. It is a slow process, but it can happen.

Respectfully, firekat

P.S.  When was the last time you heard (excitedly) "guess what I learned at camp...!"  vs "guess how many merit badge I GOT" (not the word  "earned")

Long live the neghborhood and the sense of community.

Please read Eamonn's spun thread about free shipping and handling.

Support your community!

Shopping on the 'net vs. going to a store.

Net: no salesperson to hassel you

The store: a friendly face to help you. And in our Scout Shop someone who remembers you an will discuss things (if not too busy).

Net: try to think what that widge you need is called. Time lost staring at a screen.

Store: walk around to reconize what you need. Maybe find something else you need or want by accident.

Net: enter all the required information needeed to make purchase. Reenter when make a typo. Repeat X times.

Store: Chat with casher as they finalize your purchase (cash/checks work well here)

Net: Wait for package to come. Will you be home to recieve it? Will it get left on the porch in the rain? Will the dog chew it up?

Store: Grab your bag. Say a few more things to the store clerk as you head home with what you wanted and maybe a few goodies too.

For me, I prefer the store. More friendly and less chance of having to return something that does not resemble the pretty picture you saw.

I belive in small town/neighborhood values.

Take time to stop and smell the roses

I am trying to think why you would want to do this.

I once saw this in action (purly accidental setup). I found it highly amusing as it was doing its thing at a time I had broken my leg (long story) and a person who came to help stood in the wrong (or right, depending on your point of view) spot. We warned him to move but he did not get the idea untill....        The laughter helped get my mind off the pain.

Our troop tries to cover costs of summer camps (including HA) by fundraisers. If the boy works most if them, the cost of camp is covered (rated to amount in funds). Our fundraising has been sucessful that we started covering adult fees also. This has taken a lot of stress off those adults with more than on boy going to camps. Lately, with the price of gas going up there has been reimbursements for fuel costs at the farther camps.

Have you checked with a VFW or similar organization? We have a VFW that has offered many time to be our CO but our troop has 80 years with our present CO and a good working relationship. Good luck to you.