allangr1024

I did want to be on staff for a 21st century woodbadge course to see what is was about. I took the last old syllabus course from our council in 2001. Great fun.

I was told by the council training staff that only 21st century woodbadge graduates could teach a 21st century course, and that I could take the new course along with other scouters.

This person said that for the fist few 21st century courses the staff members were a problem, since they would comment to the scouters taking the course what had changed and how much the old woodbadgers did not like the changes. So the council training staff put a stop to that.

I wonder, if I took the new course (which our WB staff told us we would NEVER be able to do,) would I still be a BEAR (oh yah), or would I have to become a (sigh) badger or a fox? I would miss the weather rock and unofficial games that characterized WB in the past, and are no longer there.

Do other councils do this? Is there a refresher course for old WB'ers to see all the benefits of the 21st century? I wish there was.

Most of your post was about planning the activities for next year. So I will address that.

Are you a cub scout pack or a boy scout troop?

If you are a pack, the adults plan the activities. Go camp at a state park, do a 2 to 3 mile hike, then let the boys play around at camp.

If you are a troop, then you as an adult should not be putting the program together, the boys should. Your goal should be to become a "boy led" troop, where the boys make the decisions that affect their program.

I am in the midst of a conversion from having "boy leaders" to having a "boy led troop". What do I mean? In the past the adults did the planning, and let the patrols elect patrol leaders. The troop elected the SPL, and he served as SPL. BUT, the adults picked the camping places and activities, and the meeting agenda's, and troop rules and policies. What did that leave the boys to decide upon? Mostly the patrol menu's for campouts. Most boys did little for a position of responsibility, since there was little to do.

I am determined to change that. I have a list of things I am turning over to the boys. The first is the yearly planning. Last August I held a planning meeting, the first of its kind, where I put up a poster with 12 entries, and we had to fill in for the 12 entries a location and an activitiy. I put up a blackboard and wrote on it 20 locations, many that we had visited before. I put up a second blackboard with activities. I then asked the boys to pick a location and an activity for month 1 (September, in this case), then a location and activity for month 2, and so on. I invited them to add locations and activities if they did not see one they wanted to pick. By the end of the meeting the boys had picked a location and an activity for each month of the year. Summer camp and the annual ski trip went up fast. I reserved one month to do the council camporee. They had to hash out the rest.

Later on, a scout came up to me and said that I had screwed up by not taking us to an event that the troop had done for a few years before I became SM. I was able to say, "But you got to pick the campouts we are doing. We will have to put it on the board to decide for next year." I think light dawned. Next year the SPL will be the master of ceremonies for the annual planning meeting.

I have not done as well at getting the PLC to do stuff. For years the SM ran the PLC meetings, and so when we have meetings, all eyes are on me. I through some issue on the table, hoping for discussion, but little follows. The boys are not used to that yet. I can only keep plugging. My goal is to approach the SPL and ask, "what is the plan?" and he will tell me all that he is doing. That takes time.

Last year one of our scouters was getting impatient at the boys trying to load the trailer to go to summer camp. He was approaching with the look on his face that he would set things straight. I told him what I would tell you. "Let the boys do it."

I have been through the process several times, with my son, and with our scouts. The process is up to the district advancement chairman. His process is like this:

On the third Thursday of each month the scout shows up with his eagle project book filled out, with the signatures of the beneficiary, the scoutmaster and committee chair, and with a fairly well thought out project plan. The district advancement chair and one or two other scouters at the district level listen to the scout present his plan and then question him about the specifics. The project is approved or not, and the scout is told to make the suggested changes to the plan and resubmit it at the next monthly meeting.

As SM, I feel that it is my duty to get the scout prepared for this, so we have a committee person appointed to help the scout develope the project, and then review the paperwork before we send him to the district approval meeting. Then I look it over before I sign it. I have had to do this kind of project work for my job, and I see it as an excellent excersize for the scout. It will prepare him for life.

I would be horrified to see anything presented to a formal approval committee that is not typed, and I want to see that the scout has thought about not only the broad nature of the project, but the steps to be taken to get it done. He has to plan the what, the who, the where, and the how. What (are we building, what service are we performing, what result shall we attain?), who (what staff do I need to get it done? Do I use only scouts? Do I need adults with special skills and tools?), where (where will the work be done?), how (What materials do I need? How do I get them and pay for them? Have one work day or more? Does someone need to test and approve the result?) So the scout does need to have things like a materials list, a needed tools list, a budget, an estimate of the work force. I have always seen these things change and expand after the district approval is given, but the scout has to make a start in the planning process.

I think having the scout obtain the funds and schedule the people before the approval is a bit dumb, but I would want to see the workbook filled with his thoughts and plans. Can you ever overplan a complicated project. And, with the aid of a computer and the project planning book in Microsoft Word format, making it neat and readable is easy. No problem.

" I will add that a boy having to be questioned by three adult strangers is a lot more traumatic then practicing skills to prove their knowledge of skills learned, which is a lot more practical to the real world. "

In my small troop, the active adults have to fill a number of roles. Only one guy is an ASM, and the others are "committee members" even though they do the ASM job at times on outings and field trips. And they staff the BOR's in our troop. We occassionally have a visiting parent do one, and at summer camp one year we had some scouters from a troop out of state, who shared our campsite, sit on one. But there are always familiar faces on the BOR, and they, sorry to say, push the envelope on "retesting". They know the boys, and have seen them in action.

I think the thing about BOR's that we accomplish is the association with adults. As scoutmaster, they are real familiar with me, perhaps overly so. Talking to the other adults is good for them. I don't see a lot of trauma there.

I have this to say about that:

"Look for the BEAR necessities

The simple BEAR necessities

Forget about your worries and your strife

I mean the BEAR necessities

Old Mother Nature's recipes

That brings the BEAR necessities of life."

You know, I took the former Woodbadge course, not 21 century. I kind of wish they would put on a mini version of the 21st century course for us, so we could see what is new. I talked to friends who took the new one, and got some info, but they could not reference my course. I thought I could see the new course by being on staff for one, but no. I asked about being a staffer, but they do not want former Woodbadgers as staff members. Apparently they ones who staffed the first round of 21st century courses would say stuff like "I don't like ????. It is not the way my course was." So, at least in my council, only grads of the 21st century course can staff a 21st century course. I would like to have mayby a 3 day, one weekend "21st Century Woodbadge for those Old farts who are still with us" type if thing.

Thanks for the comments.

My brochure is mostly pictures of our scouts doing things on campouts in the past year. That is my pitch to boys. We have fun. The back page was intended to be for parents, and I list the scout oath and law under the title, "A Game with a Purpose" and reference Baden Powell/founder of scouting with the quote. (not essential, I know.)

One of the things I was not trained in was recruiting new youth for the troop. Woodbadge, taken prior to "21st century" did not address it. I became SM last year, with a troop of 20 boys. We are now at 16 registered, 8 active but not always present, most over 14, and I think we need 10 new guys to insure the vitality of the troop. Past district chairmen told our troop to go get webelos at their AOL ceremony. When I talked to cub masters, I found that other troops had already made their pitches, and most webelos had already choosen a troop.

One guy at our roundtable was sucessful doing a troop open house, and I am using his ideas to plan one for us. The targets will be fifth graders in general, not just webelos. I have our district director committed to passing out flyers at the school, and I am trying to get the youth pastor of the church we meet in to let me make a pitch to his boys.

It is sales work. I know that some committee person ought to head it up, but we are lacking in that area. District support comes to those who make the most noise. I think I have a good program, but I need the boys.

It is for a recruiting drive for the troop, in conjuntion with a troop open house. I have some stuff about the values of scouting, for the parents, and some photo's of the boys on campouts to give boys a sense of the fun activities we do.

I like the phrase, but would hate to misquote, even though I think that if Baden Powell did not say it, he would have if he were here. Of course he would have called it a "Jolly" game at that.

I am putting together a brochure for our troop, and would like to quote the phrase "a game with a purpose." I see this quoted on web sites and attributed to Baden Powell.

I could not find it in "Aids to Scoutmastership". I did find this: "SCOUTING IS A GAME for boys, under the

leadership of boys, in which elder brothers can give their

younger brothers healthy environment and encourage

them to healthy activities such as will help them to

develop CITIZENSHIP." Not quite as consise.

Does anyone have a reference to Baden Powell for my original quote. Or any other literature that would look good for my brochure?

Thanks.

I became SM last year to a troop that had been adult run, but with scouts in "leadership" positions, but who never made any decisions.

The first thing I did was hold an outing planning session. I got the troop together and put up a blackboard with the 12 months of the year on it. I then put up a board with 15 choices of locations for camping. One was summer camp, one our ski trip, one a scout district event. I asked the boys where they wanted to go. I then put up a third board with activities listed. I asked for additions to the 15 things I came up with. By the time we finished, we had for each month a location and an activity. The boys picked from our worked up lists. We had a years camping schedule.

I had PLC's where I would put a discussion topic on the table and let the boys work it over. We only had 3 on the PLC. I had the SPL ask for other topics after that, and there were none. But the one I had brought had ended in a decision being made. I, of course, had no vote, only a veto (which I have used once).

I think it is the SM's job to bring the leaders up by giving them more and more dicision making power over the troop. I will veto if I feel it goes contrary to scouting policy, or the aims and methods. (I would not let them vote to abandon uniforms, of course, but I would lit them pick uniform pieces, like a troop hat, or non standard patrol patches).

Next year I hope the outing selection goes smoother. I hope the boys will take up more of the troop decision making, and actually develop their own vision of our troop. It takes time.

I don't know that I would put together a five year plan, but the troop definately needs to plan for a year an a half out, especially outings. As a committe chairman, I would establish goals, and a means to achieve them.

These would be my goals:

-Define the committee positions needed by your troop.

-Staff those positions.

-Set up a regular means of recruiting new boys. Contact cub packs, church youth groups, fifth grade school principals; Add ??? (5, 8, 10) new boys per year. (Our troop neglected this, and our numbers are so low we cannot field two patrols. Hard on a new SM.) This may require a committee position.

-Set up a rotation to replace patrol and troop equipment every few years.

-Set up unbreakable record keeping system. (You will be glad you did. Investigate scout management computer systems like troopmaster).

-Plan on SM recruitment every few years. Set up procedures for finding a new SM and CC.

-Train committee members on conducting Boards of Review.

I would not say to create a five year plan, but to grasp the big picture, and prevent problems.

If this were our country's legal system, we would say that the BSA rules form a constitution that lays out the program and the structure, and that a troop may form its policies as it needs, but those policies must support the BSA rules or be considered "Unconstitutional".

If there is no direct reference in BSA policy to having a parent do a MB with his kid, then the troop can regulate the MB program for themselves. We do not have a supreme court, aside perhaps from the district executive, to appeal to, but the principal is the same.

Here is an idea: Invite a scoutmaster from a troop to come and talk to your webelos, encouraging them to get their AOW, and come on up to the troop. (If you don't have a regular relationship with a troop, ask two guys, just to make it fair). Privately ask the scoutmaster to greet the boy at some informal time in the meeting, and say, "I hope to welcome you into our troop", something like that.

If the scoutmaster brings his SPL, even better if they do this together.

It might touch a spark in the kid.

I give this explanation of the moral code we follow to parents:

In our culture (Western) we are taught the difference between virtue and vice. Vice is somewhat easy to define, but virtue, and virtues, are not. We first of all list the virtues that we deem important, then describe them, and then we need to find examples of people who have excelled at the virtues that we list, since a picture is better than a thousand words. Then we must take a step back and ask ourselves, what does the building of virutes accomplish? The answer is to produce a whole man, a good man, a capable man.

I hate it when troops brush over the tenderfoot requirement to describe the scout law and oath. Most of the time that means memorize them. I like to get the boys to take one of the points of the scout law, and write a short story about it, or a song, or a drama, or a cartoon; something to show that they can identify it and express it in some create way. I get a lot of insight into my guys this way.

When my son was 11 I took him to 4 troops in our area. He did not want to join his older brothers troop. At 3 an adult came, took both of us aside, and talked about his troop. At a fourth, my son had to sit through the meeting with the boys and then play a game with them during the meeting. I let him pick, and he picked the fourth. He liked the troop meeting where the SPL did the up in front stuff, and the game, which involved running around in the church parking lot. He also liked the scoutmaster, who could really talk to him on an eleven year old level. That is where he spent 3 years.

Unfortunately that scoutmaster left, the demographic of the troop changed over 3 years, there where no more public school boys left, only guys from a more affluent catholic school, and our trips got a whole lot more expensive (which left us out of some activities that involved travel and equiptment). Now at 15, he is out of scouts but very active in church youth programs.

Let the boy decide. I can tell you, he does not want an adult scouter to lecture him on the benefits of the troop, he wants to do the activities with the scouts. The adult scouter needs to talk to the dad, the SPL or a PL needs to invite the prospective scout to join the meeting.

Our former scoutmaster used to send second class boys to get the first aid merit badge at MB fairs and summer camp, then count the MB requierments for first class first aid requirements where they overlapped. He thought the boys should get as much first aid training as possible real quick.

I am not happy with that. I think the boys should earn the rank separately from the MB. The first aid knowledtge is designed to start with easy stuff and progress to better skills. However, I think if a young scout took the MB, I would let him, but still test him on his rank requirement knowledge. I would not just sign off on a rank requirment because the scout has the MB.

For my 2 cents worth, I use a Pocket Rocket stove from MSR. It uses the smaller butane canisters. It is tiny and very dependable. You can get them at Academy Sports, along with the fuel. I am very satisfied with mine. We used it at Philmont as a backup stove.

I am intrigued with the Sierra Zip stove. I have not seen one, but if it burns small sticks or charcoal, and heats well, that would be great. No fuel to carry.

Hi,

I am a fellow Ttown resident.

What troop is your pack with?

And most importantly, where is the best camping in the area?

Welcome to the board.

Can you hear the scouts say in unison: "GROAN!!!"

I liked Trevorum's reply for younger guys. For the scout who is progressing to first class, I would do two things:

First, I would ask questions that challange the scout to consider the quality of his scout skills. At this point (first class), we consider him to have learned the outdoor skills he needs to survive on a camping trip. Can he build a fire in any terrain? How does he dress for extremes of heat and cold? What makes up a well rounded nutritious meal in the woods? Don't retest him, but ask how he would do in various situations, based on the knowledge he should have as a first class scout.

Second, I would ask him how he thinks he would do if given the tough jobs of patrol leader, SPL, Quartermaster, grub master, ect. The goal is to get him thinking of leadership. He should be told he is getting to the point that he will be called upon to serve in a position of responsibility. Ask: what is he good at? How well did the current leadership do? How could it be done better? How does one become a leader in your troop? What are the responsibilities of the SPL, PL, and so on. Is he ready to step up and be on the team. Can he teach skills to the younger guys? Challange him to "take up the mantle" so to speak.

First class is a rank that is pivital in the scouts time in the troop. He should be transisitioning from learner to teacher, from follower to leader.

mark,

How many men wear any kind of hat (other than perhaps a ball cap) these days. The art of wearing headwear has long been gone.

So, how are men to know anything about proper headwear etiquette. No one is teaching this in school, church, government, or society in general. The rules may not have changed, but they are irrevelent, since the activity is not practiced any more.

If you are really bugged about it, volunteer to do a presentation to the roundtable, in the guise of adults teaching the boys proper use of the uniform, on the points you are making here. I would not like to be lectured to on a matter like this, but if you do it as an educational service, then the etiquette challenged amoung us may say to ourselves "Oh, I did not know wearing this is disrespectful".

I am in a bit of a quandry over this issue.

On one hand I do want to see the boys (especially the PLC), lead the troop. I want to see them step up to the plate and make decisions for which they have wieghed all aspects of the decision and have well reasoned arguements for decisions they make.

On the other hand, If they decide that they will do things that drastically depart from scouting practice, I feel the obligation to step in and steer the PCL back on course. If they decide "No more uniforms", or if they decide "No more camping", "No more rank andvancement and scout skills", then I need to step in and veto the proposal.

The case before us is an award that the boys must participate in to earn. The activities sound like they are in keeping with scouting aims and methods. But the award is not essential to the well being of the troop. This may be an instance where the PLC can decide. But the SM also has a voice to urge the boys to go for the award.

I fear that a slide would eventually set in. What if the boys said, "we do not want to cook on a campout, but eat twinkies for all our meals". Or, "We do not want to hike. We just want to sit around the fire." If left to themselves, they will slowly erode a scouting program until it is dull, boring, and attacts no new scouts.

Where is the balance? I think the SM has the responsibility to put together the program, and have it be understood that the scouts must participate. Within that framework, the boys can make decisions that affect the troop. Like "where do we go camping?", or "What activity (out of a list from our program) do we do this month?".

I think this troop, the "Eagle Factory" is from our council. They actually put that on their class B shirts.

I have mixed feelings. The troop is over 180 registered scouts, 40 registered adults, and they just about need the entire summer camp week for their own needs. Everything is very structured. With that many adults working with the troop, there are always two or three merit badges going. I can not speak to the quality of the classes, but I have met several Eagle scouts from the troop and they seemed solid.

The scoutmaster has been there since 1969. I met him when he acted as SPL for my Woodbadge, and I have met other of the troops adults at things like BSA Lifeguard and Camporee. The scoutmaster is a legend in our council. He recruits scouts from single parent families. People visit the troop to hear his scoutmaster minutes.

In their troop the boys cannot go on High adventure activities until they get their Eagle. That is the expectation. So there are always 3 to 4 Eagles presented at each court of honor. I must also say that they have a very well developed boy led patrol method going. The boys have a leadership team called the "Stick Men", consisting of SPL and several ASPL's, that work with the 12 to 15 patrol leaders in the troop.

The founding scoutmaster of our troop was an Eagle from their troop, and brought the merit badge class thing with him. I compare our troop of 15 with the troop of 180, and I am kind of glad I have more one on one relationships with my scouts. Our council does not really maintain a list of merit badge councelors, except for the swimming and life saving badges. They tell us to do it in the troop. Definately influenced by the "Eagle Factory".

Has anyone used the "Sierra Zip Stove". I saw an article about it, and it looked neet. It is a small wood burning stove with a battery powered fan at the bottom blowing on the fire in a metal bowl at the top. They say you can just drop twigs into it and cook a meal.

The Pocket Rocket is great. I took one to Philmont just to make Coffee. The crew used the Coleman stove, since Philmont sold the gas canisters for it. I made two small pots of coffee each day, and used only two canisters of butane the whole time. Light, compact, small fuel canisters, you cant get much better than that. The 30 to 40 degree weather at night did not seem to affect them much.

In a previous troop, the boys had the responsibility of planning and running the COH. The night my youngest son was to recieve his first rank, tenderfoot, I watched him across the room as the boys on the stage started calling out the names of the rank recipients. They went through the tenderfoot badges, without calling my son up. They went throught the second class badges. Then the first class, then the upper ranks. They handed out all of the merit badges. Then they called for the closing and and SM minute. As all this went on I saw my sons face go from ready to questioning, to panic, to despair. When he came to me afterwords he was ready to start sobbing, and possibly ready to never return. I went to the CC and asked what happened. It appears that his tenderfoot badge was still on a table on the stage, overlooked, not picked up, not noticed by the boys on stage.

We stayed until my son got Star. That troop did stuff like that a lot. The attitude was always, "oops, sorry about that, no harm done." But harm did get done, and now my son is out and is not interested in coming back to scouting. He is finding his needs better met by the church youth group.

I have taken the SM position at another smaller troop, and wish he would follow, but he is done. I think about that as I do stuff for my current troop. I do not want to see that disappointed look again.

I used it on my tent just before the Philmont trip in 2005. It mostly worked, and I have not seen any adverse effects. We had a wet 3 or 4 days towards the beginning of the trip, around the Miners Park area. The tent collected some water in the corner by my feet from somewhere. I mainly applied the stuff to the seams of the tent. The rest of the tent stayed dry, and I could avoid the little puddle in the corner.