AlFansome

Ours is based on the Costanoan language of the local Ohlone tribe. All the info at http://bsa-mdsc.org/oa/info/lodgehis.php#home

You can get relatively new ones (from last year) from http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/cub-tracker.html

The main site that they are hosted on seems to be down now. Not much changes from year to year unless the books or requirements change. These will at least get you 95% of the way there. I've used them in the past and for Bear year, they are particularly helpful. Just make sure to follow the instructions carefully on the 1st sheet in the workbook.

As a Cubmaster with a son just moving into Webelos, the key is getting the boys exposed to Boy Scouts in any way possible as early as possible. It sets the stage for a successful bridging. Make sure that the Webelos den leaders are not just heads down in their books but planning for and thinking about bridging early is huge.

Some things that have helped:

- Our council has a Webelos Weekend in the summer at the council camp in the mountains, which is held on Friday/Saturday night as one group of troops are ready to head out and before the next week's troops come in. This year one of the troop we've historically fed into had 1 night left in camp before heading out. With camp director approval, they invited the Webelos and dads who attended the Webelos Weekend to cozy up closer to their troops' campsite instead of pitching tents with the other Webelos for the 1st night. Our Webelos paired off with a Scout on the way to the campfire, got to know some of the boys in the troop and in general were so excited to be part of the troop (sort-of). It really enhanced the weekend, which otherwise was completely experienced with the other Webelos.

- Starting to think about bridging as Webelos I. No law against getting AOL stuff while finishing up the Webelos rank. My 2 Webelos I den leaders are totally on board with the bridging aspect already and I'd rather have them devote at least some time the 1st year with the transition instead of being just heads down in the activity pins. Could be as simple as getting a jump on joint Den/Troop activities or taking part in appropriate project or events with the Troops.

- getting troops to participate in Pack meetings, whether it's as simple as coming to announce an upcoming event with a skit or yell, or (as many do) of inviting the OA to participate in AOL/bridging ceremonies.

Pretty simple...the more contact with troops the better.

Our pack is based out of the kids' private school and draws boys from a 10-15 mile radius (and 2 different districts). Within those 10-15 miles there are 40+ troops to choose from, so opportunities to connect with troops are all over the place...it does make it alot easier then being a small town with fewer options.

Yeah, I'm just extremely anal and seeing an old president on the recharter paperwork bugs me. But, you're right...if the name is out of date, the earth will continue to spin.

Thanks...I sent off the e-mail to registrar. I figure it's easier for me to do it once that to try to get all 5 units to do it individually.

I'm a chartered rep for the units sponsored by my Kiwanis Club. Each year the president of our club changes in October (and therefore the Institution Head for the chartered units also changes). I like to get the Council's records updated with the new IH before our units start their recharter processes so they have the right info on their reports.

In past years, I vaguely recall filling out a new adult app for the IH, but I can't remember for sure in the haze of all the other scouting stuff I do. I checked the current adult app and there's no position code for IH, so I'm probably wrong in my recollection.

What's the right way to get the records updated? Our registrar is out of the office at training this week, or I'd just ask her.

"There really is no hierarchical structure of boys leading other boys in Boy Scouting at 8-9 year old level either. Those are Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and real boy leadership doesn't start until Boy Scouting when the Boy Scout is 10 or 11. So I would suggest it is apples and oranges to compare what boys are doing at 10,11,12, etc. with girls at 8 or 9."

Yes, that's true as far as 8 or 9 year old boys leading 8 or 9 year old boys.

However, if you throw in Den Chiefs, the examples set by the Webelos in the Pack, and the fact that 1st to 5th grade boys get together on a frequent basis for pack meetings and events, there is a quite a bit of "leadership" (even if only by example) that the younger boys are exposed to. I guess maybe I could have been more clearer in my first post.

I always love the 1st pack meeting of the year to see the look on the new Tigers' faces as they try to take in everything. You have a group of boys who want to check out all the patches on the patch vests or the belt loops on the older boys. Then there are the ones that just love the older boys leading the flag ceremony or skits or songs or whatever. It really puts them on the Cub Scout path right from the get-go.

In a single-level Girl Scout troop, there is literally zero of that kind of interaction required by the GSA program. In a multi-level troop, that would not be the case, of course.

"A true atheist would, in order to arrive at their conclusion of atheism, have to largely abandon the testimony of their conscience."

Why? I don't see any connection there whatsoever. Why can't an athiest use something akin to the Golden Rule as a guide? Pretty much everything else can follow from that, which is probably why many/most belief systems have some sort of concept in the "Do unto others" vein.

From a societal point of view, there are certainly risk/rewards in not being "nice" to others around you, so a belief in God isn't necessary to live in harmony with (and do things to benefit) others.

For those who believe that evolution is how we got here, what exactly is a "conscience" in the biological sense? Does there need to be an outside force to provide our "conscience" with direction? Or are societal pressures and influences and interactions enough to have formed a "conscience" via the millions of years of evolution that come before?

No answers here...just trying to consider an opposing view.

Well, our scout shop doesn't have the old trained strips, and perhaps the best example of BSA's intent is that if look for an old trained strip on scoutstuff.org, you will be out of luck.

They are going, going, gone.

Here's another council that looks like it's got it all just about in place and mandatory at this point .... http://www.ctyankee.org/program/training/required

The rollout plan looks good, but as has been mentioned it's all the dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the database that seems to be the weakest link (definitely is the case in our Council).

This year my son moves up to Webelos and my daughter is a Junior GS (4th grade twins), and I completely agree that the programs are so completely different, that it's sort of futile to compare them.

I've been TL, DL, and CM in the pack and have also helped out my daughter's Brownie troop with a few Try-It's and at a few overnighters.

As you say, the whole deal where each Troop is a different grade level and the Troops don't really interact is just maddening. At our kids' school there are 6 troops with 6 bank accounts, 6 treasurers, 6 schedules and not much interaction. A multi-level troop would seem to be the right way to go for mentoring purposes and to allow for a bigger pool of volunteers to tap into.

My wife has done the camping training for GS and the restrictions on men at the campouts was interesting. Had to be separate from the girls by xxx feet, needed to point the opening of your tent away from the rest of the girls, couldn't sleep in the same tent as your daughter, etc...

In the end, though, after being at several troop meetings with my daughter, the boys and girls really work at different levels with regards to how they interact with each other. In many respects, the hierarchical structure of girls leading other girls may not be the best (at least at the 8-9 year old level) since the girls really seem to want everything to be at a level playing field at this age. Example: if something as simple as the snacks aren't exactly the same for each girl (chocolate vs. vanilla, or oatmeal vs. chocolate chip), I've seen 4 girls out of 16 crying simultaneously about the unfairness of the whole deal. Maybe it's just the group that we have.

My daughter, on the other hand, can't wait to get into Venturing. While she likes the social aspects of Girl Scouts and is planning on going after the Gold Award and sticking with it, she definitely prefers the more outward-focused program her brother gets to do (camping, shooting, "fun" stuff, etc..). She's already said she's going to go skydiving for her 18th birthday after she saw my wife do it. (My son and I both agree that we can pass on that one :-)

Well, I've used up my $.02.

There is no "official" answer at this point because BSA still hasn't released new inspection sheets (at least I couldn't find any today).

For my son's new Webelos uniform, I put the top of the numbers touching the bottom of the council patch and it looks just fine to me and consistent with the previous/current uniform. Definitely better than a gap, IMHO.

So, do what you think is best and hope that you've chosen wisely!

As a member of a Kiwanis Club that puts on a July 4th parade for 30 to 40,000 people, I can say that throwing anything to the spectators is a bad idea if there are floats or motor vehicles involved. Little kids are always running out to get the goodies and we had a bad incident years back and have banned the practice.

Unless you plan on giving away something of value, I wouldn't bother...just adds to the debris left over after the parade.

If you give things out, it's safer to hand the items out as you walk the parade route instead of tossing them and having spectators run out into the route.

Then again, our parade is big with large floats and trucks and helicopters on flatbeds and a 50 foot tall retractable flagpole and ... so this may not be much of an issue in your case.

Just some random thoughts...

- In practice, how much is God and religion brought up and discussed in den/pack/troop meetings in units which are chartered by secular bodies (i.e. "parents of ..", service clubs, etc...)? In many cases, probably only as it relates to the saying of the Oath/Promise/Law and with particular advancement milestones (Wolf/Bear/Webelos badges).

- Wouldn't an athiest child who lives in the US run into "God" just about as often (Pledge of Allegiance, on our currency, in our songs, etc..)?

- If an athiest is fine with bumping into religion once in a while outside of scouts, then why not inside (especially in a unit of a particular flavor)?

- Would all the other positive benefits of scouting allow parents to be drawn to the program even in spite of the focus on religion?

- Not all athiests are actively anti-religion. For many, it's just not for them, so being in a program that has some religious aspects may be no big deal.

I don't know, I can see it happening quite a bit, I guess. Now, I would think that if a unit is chartered by a church or other like organization, then the frequency would drop off tremendously, of course.

Would the fact that BSA doesn't require a Scout to belong to an organized religion (but just have faith in God) answer your question?

I can certainly see the addition of an additional religious requirement somewhere in T-1-2 ladder, but if someone isn't part of an organized religion, then I don't see how BSA would absolutely require a religious emblem for advancement.

As an example, I was raised Roman Catholic, but married my wife in one of the branches of the Armenian Apostolic church. Now, I'm not Armenian, never converted, and wouldn't feel comfortable earning an emblem there. Likewise, I've drifted from the RC church for many reasons. Where would I earn my emblem?

Not meaning to be difficult here, but I think that there could be good reasons why requiring an emblem for advancement may be problematic.

Not to put words in John's mouth, but I don't think he's proposing that earning a religious emblem be absolutely required for any advancement or program, just that it be at least an optional part of a religious component to advancement. As John says, in both Cubs and Venturing, earning the emblem is part of one of those "do 3 (or 4 or ..) from the following list" deals...it is not required.

Requiring a scout to earn an emblem for advancement would require them to be part of an organized religion, which is not necessary to be in the BSA.

(This message has been edited by AlFansome)

Yes, exactly. It's all about expectations and mindset. For incoming families, set the expectations early to allow for a workable, fulfilling experience for the families (not just the boys). A nice side effect will be that once parents are actually at events where their boys are enjoying themselves, the parents also be more willing to step forward and help out once in a while, too, not only because of the experience they had, but also because they see all the hard work that the current leaders are doing.

For all our outings, we require that a parent come with his/her son for a few reasons. First, all Tiger cubs MUST come with a parent. Second, Cub Scouts is a family program and getting parental involvement is key on many levels. Third, it'd be unfair to the leaders if this turned into Baby Sitters of America...if we opened the door, we leaders know exactly which parents would use us as a babysitting service. Finally, just from a safety perspective, having extra eyes and ears is helpful.

For us, cost isn't an issue since we're in an affluent area and since most of the things we do (except overnighters) have no or minimal cost..such as hikes, kite flying, nature museums, etc.etc.

Nope...no strip above the right pocket for LNT. The inspection sheets and insignia guide are pretty clear about what goes above the right pocket and that isn't there. A Scouter can wear the round LNT emblem/award ON the pocket if they earn it, but not above.

Yep, my Cubs sure quiet down quick at Pack Meetings when I put up my sign and wait....if only my Wolf Den leader would be so obedient and stop screaming "Signs Up", even after repeated requests from me quit his habit.

The boys are so much easier than the parents... :-)

Yeah, the uniform stuff is so far out there, that (as you say) it's hard to know what to jump on first. I personally like the fact that they awarded the Boy Scout version of the Leave No Trace patch instead of the Cub Scout one (maybe they started doing Boy Scout advancements as well!). Also looks like a Boy Scout Good Turn / Conservation patch at the bottom of the middle sash.

You're right about the denner cords...only the currently serving denner (and assistand denner) wear the cords...otherwise, just the tabs.

In addition, the Girl Scout doesn't seem to be related to anyone else in the pack. Not registered, probably no parent present at all times. What about youth protection?

While the boys did a lot of good with the service project, and should be commended, I think that the leaders let them down a bit with executing the program. Interesting that 2 boys dropped out so soon after the "Lion" year.

Welcome to the forums, DPW! I'd post your question in the "Open Discussions - Program" forum for lack of a more suitable place.

Saw this while surfing around:

http://www.angelfire.com/trek/pocketchangelimited/scouts.html

Discuss amongst yourselves...

Here's one vote for the zipper-less, hem-able switchbacks (although all your points are well-taken). My son just transitioned to Webelos. He's 9 years old with a 32" waist. He tall for his age, but not that tall to be able to accomodate the length that existed on the old switchbacks. As it is, I'll be hemming a good 8 inches off the new-style switchbacks this week to get the length right. It still looks a little long when worn as shorts, however.

With the old switchbacks, the only choice would have been to move the TOP zipper on the bottom part of the legs, which is alot more surgery than hemming the bottoms. (The lady at out scout shop actually offered this service because of all the complaints about length).

NeilLup-

I'm 15 minutes east of Berkeley. The only address in Berkeley on the entire web site is a PO Box. No phone number, either. If you can get me the address of a door to knock on and some info, I'd be happy to try to help out. PM me offline if you'd like me to do any legwork for you.