Eamonn

Ok, I know that most of the Lesders at camp are parents of the boys. At times, I don't even think of myself as a parent. In the past (When I worked on camp staff) We did try and put on a bit of a show, when the parents were coming to camp. In fact I remember on Parents Night we always served Roast Chicken. It was the best meal of the week. There is at times a "Thing" about making DE's more visable. This is not a bad thing, but other then Parents Night, the people at camp, for the most part have seen the DE's. But even then they really only want to deal with their own DE.

I went to the Eagle Project Book that you have listed. I don't deal with very many of these, but this book is not the same as the one that our Scouts use. I may be wrong bur this one seems to have more pages and is a better lay out. Again, I'm not sure but have a feeling that the one we use is from National, it can be downloaded, but the Scouts have to use a pen to complete it. I will bring this to the attention of our District Advancement Chair. Many Thanks.

Welcome Al. There used to be something that went: If you want to get ahead get a hat, If you want to get a hat get a head. I never did work out what it was to mean. But maybe when you have your hat on your head they think you are - The HEAD ?? It must be late.

Maybe I'm just not getting it. I don't see any DE,having the choice of Field Work or Program. First and foremost as the name of the job states he or she is a District person. I think that is where they ought to be working in the District. I have some idea what we pay camp staff and what a DE (in my case a senior DE)earns. Paying an Executive to be a camp staffer seems very silly. The future of the camp lies at the mercy of: Membership - If we don't have enough members to send to camp the camp will have to close. Funding - We need money to keep the camp going. I see the role of a DE, as more of a salesperson, who will deliver the membership and help find the money. The program at camp is in the hands of the camp staff. We hire a camp Director to ensure that this is done. As a District we have done our job, by trying to get the campers to attend the camp. Some years back it seemed that the people who were hired to be DE's were the Eagle Scouts stright from school. These guys thought that the job was "Playing Boy Scout". They had little or no understanding of how a non- profit organization really worked. There are several hundred volunteers in my district who are very good at delivering the program to the youth that they serve. This year we have a council budget of $1.3 million. What would you put your executives to on ?

When I was a Scout Leader in England the uniform hat was a green beret. A total pain. No one really knew how to wear the darn thing. We do need to find a uniform that everyone will feel good wearing. At present I see as many Scouts wearing Blue Jeans as I do uniform pants. Would changing the pants to some sort of Blue Jeans, be the end of Scouting ?? (I have already ducked )

Eagle74.I have been in Scouting for a long time and I'm still trying to look for the "Right" Answers. Do you really think that this ought to be part of a review? It is fine with me if you really think so. If on the other hand, the questions are there in order to put the Lad "On the Spot". I think that it is a bit over the top.

Well Done. This is great news.

It is important that we adults remember that this is a review. We are dealing with a boy who has all sorts of emotions and feelings. This Board has a lot of people that he may not know very well, and is not at ease. We too have promised "To Help Other People" Along with being Kind.

Seems to me that there is a lot of material to play with here. Does the role of the Commissioner need to be overhauled ? When the right person is matched with the right unit. Commissioner Service is a great asset to the unit. He or She also has a vital role within the District, updating the key 3 about the unit, and keeping them informed about what is happening and maybe what needs to happen. The Unit Commissioner is the advocate for the unit. The plan of action for what, and when is laid out in the Commissioner Handbook, and this is also something that helps to ensure the delivery of the program. The only way a unit commissioner can really understand what is going on in a unit is by being there. I have no idea why a unit would want a Round Table Commissioner to attend a meeting. His or her job is to plan and present Round Tables - What would he or she do at a pack/den/ troop meeting ? As a rule in our district the Cub Scout round table staff follow the Round Table Planning Guide and work on the themes that are there. The Boy Scouts tend to go with bringing in presenters who are good at what ever it is that they are good at. To my way of thinking Camporees are held for the good of the Scouts, when we start adding Adult activities, we are cheating them. The relationship between a Unit Commissioner and the Unit is very much a one on one. He or she is their Commissioner, their friend and someone that they can turn to. Filling them with cheese and crackers will do little to improve that. Some of the problems that there are with Commissioners are due to the recruitment of Commisssioners. They tend to be "Old Timers". Where a lot of our Adult Leaders are in the program, because they have a child in the program, Commissioners have "Been there - Done that" At times this makes Commissioner Training really hard. There has at times been people who just didn't fit in any where, so they got "Moved" into Commissioner service. Then we wonder why it isn't working ? There used to be an unwritten life term of office, for Commissioners. Which was and is wrong. Their term of office is from year to year. To my way of thinking the best Commissioners start out not knowing too much about the unit and do act as a friendly outsider. As to what topics at a round table deal with the role of a commissioner ? If the Commissioner is doing the job, why bother ?

I have seen some of these proposals that go to our District Advancement Committee. Two Pages - Wow That would be a Tome, for most of our guys. Is there a way that they could make the book available so that the boys could complete it on line ? A great number of the boys lack the skills that are needed to use a pen and paper to get the idea across. While we old timers, may think this is a crying shame. It is the way it is.

Hey Guys, this is getting deep. I really have no idea, how the rule about Gay Leaders came to be. I do know, that it is there. And like so many other rules, I have the choice to follow them or not play the game. There is no way that we could cover every situation that might come along with rules. If I were the IHO (Which I'm not.) I think that I would have to look deep into my heart and try and see what is best for the Scouts. Only knowing what I do from what has been said so far, I feel sure that I would not allow this person to be a leader. However, in my position as the District Chair. I think that the Chartered Organization, will make that call. After that call has been made, we go with it. If some day I am asked to serve on the national committee,then I will sit back and listen to the debate, then and only then will my input be worth anything. As for now I will just do what I'm doing, and try to give it my best.

Thanks Dale. Of course the besr thing would be if one of the ASMs, were to come back next time out as the SM. The Lad who was Junior Asst. Scoutmaster, is still on the charter of a local Troop, but has been away at School. Other then a card at Christmas, there has been no real contact. One of the ASMs,has became a Crew Leader, I think he may go as part of the Action Area Staff. The other is still a Scoutmaster, but is one of those leaders who will only be in the program, as long as his son is part of it. The son is a great kid, but has kind of out-grown the troop. I think he would enjoy being part of a crew. But Dad is not that keen on the idea. Maybe because he thinks that I will twist his arm into starting one. The poor chap was my Assistant Cubmaster, and somehow got talked into starting the troop. I wonder how that happened ?? What is really great, is the number of boys who went to the last one, who want to go back again as the Jr. ASM. 2001 was my first, I had been the ASM for Nordjamb, back in 1975. But this was far better. Maybe I changed, it's hard to remember that far back. We only managed to have one Re-Union meeting, it was so hard to find dates that worked, I have however been invited to all the Eagle Scout Courts Of Honor, that has come along. Which does make me very happy. This one will more then lightly, be my last one as Scoutmaster. With that in mind, It has to be the best ever, not just for the boys, but for my ego !! (Yes I admit it.) Still with such a super event it is really hard for it not to be. Also the Scouts that go are some of the best kids, who are really into Scouts and Scouting. We are going to have such a good time. I would urge any parent who is looking in, to take the plunge and have a chat with your son about going. I know the price tag seems high, but last time, it only cost me $250.00 out of my pocket, O J, raised the rest from pie sales and pizza sales. Strange thing was that people would buy this stuff even if they didn't want it. They were just happy to help send a boy to such a great event. Only 769 days to go - I can't wait.

It seems to me that we are not remembering the District Training Team. Unit Commissioner visits unit. Sees that there is a need for some sort of training. Reports to the ADC, or to the Commissioner Meeting. District Commissioner, brings the matter to the attention of the District Committee, who send in the Training Team. Unit Commissioner, has done a worth while job. Training is offered. Needless to say there are some units / members who have their way of offering what they think is the program and unless we tell them to take a hike, they will continue to do so. We of course can't tell them to take a hike, as they were not selected by us. (Us being, the District/Council) When it comes to problems with "Eagle Mills" and the like, it is not the new leaders that are the problem. It is the leader who in his or her heart really does know better. Heck, I have one Troop in my district that has on the back of their troop hat "Where Eagles Fly" Last year Westmoreland Fayette Council, had the highest percentage of Trained Leaders in the nation. Every Boy Deserves A Trained Leader, has real meaning. But still as I see what is going on in the units, I have to wonder what game are these guys playing? Still it is a great Program, and we will keep on keeping on Eamonn

Mark, Heritage is owned and ran by Greater Pitt. We are the poor Council next door. We have camp Conestoga, in Somerset Pa. Maybe one day if you have time you could come up for a visit. Both Heritage and Twin Echo, which are Greater Pitt. Camps (And are really nice) Are in our Council Area. Camp Conestoga, is within the Penns Woods Council.

Telling someone that something is not right takes a little skill. A lot will depend on how well you know the person. I have to admit that in cases like this, I tend to just smile, shake my head and "Take Plenty of NO notice !!" Of course if you know the person well and are sure that you are not going to hurt them, you might have a word alone with them. Then again you could try being "Sneeky" and have one of your R/T Commissioners cover uniforming at an up and coming R/T. When I was a District Commissioner, I had an old timer who was real big into this sort of stuff. He was the one that noticed that Her That Must Be Obeyed had put one of the knots on upside down. When people talk about the "Uniform Police" They are talking about "Old Norm" He would just love to tell someone something like this. Shame is that he was not a very good Commissioner. I wonder why ??

Ok, I'm all for our DE, getting out and having a good airing. But Dave, dear Lad. There are no Parents there. She is not the DE, to two thirds or more of those in camp. If those who are employed at camp are doing what they are to be doing - They really don't need, or have time to stop and have tea and crumpets. We have a paid camp staff - Do we need to pay all the extra travel expenses, for what is not such a good PR,job. The really important people in camp, the Scouts, have no need of her services - I do. We have so much stuff to be done in the early fall, it is just not funny. This is the time to be out and about in the community, doing a PR, job that wiil have merit and better still make things better for me !! To my way of thinking it would be much better if all the staff Scout Exec. On down came to camp for the parents night. Heck they could car pool and save a few cents. I do see how your set up is not the same as ours. Your DE's have something to do. Mine has been told to fill in where needed - Whatever that means?? Oh Great Man Of Steele, you will have to try harder to make me stop thinking that, my DE at camp is about as useful as pockets in my underware. As a District, we do hold a joint Commissioner, Committee, and treat the FOS Captains to dinner meeting at the camp, the week when our district has the most units in camp. This seems to go over well. As a council we invite the Board to go along with the Camp Inspection Team, and then have a Bar-B-Que. At the end of the day, I suppose that it is a matter of what is right for each Council. As far a Summer Camp goes, the District has done what we were to do. We promoted the camp and got the Cubs and Scouts to attend. We now ought to be working on all the other important things : School Sign Up - Pop Corn - The Corn Roast. The Nominating Committee. As if there isn't enough to do, we are such nice people that in August, she is off on paid vacation !! Bah- Humbug. Have A Great Day. Eamonn

Well we have had our first Council Jamboree Troop Committee Meeting. We have a price tag of $875.00. Which is not as high as I thought it was going to be. We are off and running almost an entire year earlier then last time out. This will give the Scouts a lot more time to save and raise the money. Some of the things that we are changing are: Tent Stakes: We went with wood last time and they kept breaking, not much fun, when it's 104 in the shade !! So we are going to try metal this time out. Dining Flies: We are going to see if these framed car-port what-ever-they-are-called ?? Will work out better. Another change is that each of the Scoutmasters, is to have a face to face meeting with the Scout and his parent. The hope here is that everyone will be better prepared in every way. We are sending the same two Scoutmasters as we did last time, in the hope that they will get it right this time. As one of them, I know there are things that I did which I could have done a better job on. We were holding a PLC meeting in the AM. Which was not such a good idea, much better to have it at night. The list of equipment that National sends out for the Patrol Box, has way too much stuff in it. So we are taking a long hard look at that. We are also leaving our area earlier and getting to the Hill earlier, in order to avoid the mid day heat. Last time we left our area at 3:00.AM. None of the boys had been to bed any way. We got to the site at 1:30.PM. But it was 2:30 till we got through the check in. Have to admit that I'm really looking forward to this. Being the Scoutmaster for the Jambo. Is like being a grandparent, much as you get to know, like and love the kids, you are aware that at the end of it you can hand them back to their own Scoutmaster.

The things this Lad will do to get out of buying me a Fathers Day Present. He has a birthday coming up - A good time for me to go out of town ?? Just joking. He will be 15 so for the next year there will be a count down. Counting the days till he can get his driving permit.

We only have one LDS church in our area. It is not in my district, so to be very honest I really don't get that involved. However, one of the women where I work is married to an LDS Bishop. They are the nicest family. They invited me to their sons Eagle Scout Court Of Honor. Held in the church. It was one of the best that I have ever attended. I like to think that as Irish Catholics, we are a close knit family, but the love and feelings that were so very apparent at this Court of Honor, was a real eye opener. The Lad who became an Eagle is now away doing his mission in Taiwan, his mother tells me that he is really making use of the skills that he got from being a Scout.

Oliver-James (OJ)Packed his back pack, kissed his mother, took some of my hard earned money. Loaded up all the stuff he needed for the OA weekend, Which is to be followed by our Council JLTC. Last year we were unable to find a Scoutmaster for it, so we send our Scouts to Greater Pitt. And one Lad went to Philmont. I have been informed that there is a really good course for youth staff members at camp Alpine in New Jersey. If anyone has any info. I would love to hear it. This house is very quite without him. I don't think that I like it. Oh Well the shape of things to come ?

Every year we have our DEs spent the daylight hours at sumer camp. They toddle off each day for two weeks and toddle home again each night. This to my way of thinking is about really Dumb. The DE, that serves my district does an outstanding job With our district. Without being sexist, she is a Lady that before being employed by the BSA,was very happy to play bridge and golf at the Country Club. Her only contact with the Boy Scouts, was that her son is an Eagle Scout. As far as admin. Goes she is the greatest. FOS,she has all the right conections and so far this year we are the only district to reach our goal. Summer Camp, is under the direction of the Assistant Scout Exec. It employes a Camp Director, Program Director and a Business Manager. I fail to see what good sending the DE, to camp does. It's not like we haven't got enough stuff in the District to do.

This one took a little thought from me, I really was between a rock and a hard place. Here I am in this organization that has as its mission Ethical Values. Here I am a member of a church that does not sanction sex outside of marriage. And then there is this young person who is clearly not setting the example, that I want for my son. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in the BSA rules to prevent this young Lady becoming a leader, once she has met all the age qualifications. So that is not an issue. Then there is the teaching of my church. Of course she might be in a unit that is not affiliated with a church. But even if she was in my old unit that was chartered by a local Roman Catholic Church. We are not to sit in judgement of others, and the church teaches us that our God is a loving, forgiving God. The final say about her becoming a Leader is as Bob White has stated. Some years back I was a Cubmaster in the pack chartered by St. John The Baptist R.C. Church. The Den Leader Coach was really into the program, we used to laugh saying that she went to bed in her uniform. She really was "On the job 24/7" She was a divorcee, and had a son in the pack. Somehow. someway she became involved with the Round Table Staff of the district next door, and before long her and the then District Commissioner were living together. He was also divorced. These guys were great, they really knew their stuff, he was an ex-marine, who could live in the wilds with nothing but a swiss army knife and a Kendal Mint Cake, She could turn old copies of the Readers Digest, into great works of art. Everything was fine. About this time I became the District Cub Scout Training Chair. This pair were natural Staffers for the Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training. However they became very upset with me when I informed them that while at the course they could not sleep in the same tent. But back to this young Lady. While I see that there might be a problem or problems, - I can get past them. In fact I would be hoping for a boy - we need Membership.

Here in our Council, we are still offering the Webelos Scout Outdoor Training. In fact I think that is a training that must be taken before taking these little guys to camp. I will need to check up on that one. It may be just something that our Council is doing because I may not be right - Ok, I might be wrong. I don't think that the Outdoor Skills (If we are talking about the Introduction To Outdoor Skills for Scoutmasters)is such a great idea. We are dealing with a different set of boys, who have different needs then the Boy Scouts have. I'm not sure what: "Cub Scout Leader Non-specific Training" is? Do you mean the New Leader Essentials ? While I have no idea of how things work in your Council; If someone came to me wanting this course (Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor.) I would move heaven and earth to make sure that we got our act together and presented the training. In fact I fail to see a reason why or how a Council would not offer it. I have presented it five or six times, and it has always been a lot of fun, and boy the mess we adults made making volcano's!! If I was in your position, I would talk to my District Training Chair. If you don't get any joy there, give the Council Training Chair. Or the Council Cub Scout Training Chair a call. As our Council Training Chair. I would love to think that the Training Team, is always right and always knew what they were doing - We do try, but ......

1/ Each and everyone of the Training Staff in our council are aware that they are to stick to the syllabus. 2/ Adult Leader Training is the responsibilty of the council. Not the District. We are a small council,and do encourage everyone to go where the training is, even if it is not in there own district. We have four districts,each one offers New Leader Essentials, 3 times a year (One each month) Each District offers the Cub Scout Leader Specific twice a year. And Baloo and Weblos Outdoor once a year. Boy Scout Training is offered in the spring and the fall. This is coordinated by the Council Boy Scout Training Chairman, he also takes care of JLTC. If there is a need we do offer extra trainings for those who are unable to make the dates. Troop Committee Training is down to the District Training Chair. 3/ All new Trainers are to meet with the person in charge of that Training, as a rule normally the District Training Team. To go over the syllabus and plan the event. All Trainers are requested to attend the Trainer Development Conference, which is offered once a year. 4/ At this time we have yet to start using Pack and Troop Trainers. 5/ I have to admit to not liking the idea of presenting the wrong information, for fear that someone will wake up and only get that part. Some of the problems that I run into : A/ There are a full set of codes that identify what training a person has taken. - It would be really nice if these were shown on the charter. B/ Youth Protection Training somehow became part of the Round Table. This is not what a r/t is for, and not the right staff. C/ As Training is up to the Council and the hardware is now a lot more expensive, we need to see it on the Council budget. D/ We offer the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training in two formats. The whole day or over 3 nights. The 3 nights are just a bit too long, in order to start at a time when people can get there and get home at a respectable hour. - Four nights would be better, but it won't work. E/ Commissioner Training for some reason does not come under "Training" ?? There are some Scoutmasters in the Council who don't understand why they have never been asked to be on the Training Staff - The reason is that I have no idea what program they are running, - But is sure as heck is not one that I want passed on to our new leaders. This really is a case of "Walk the Walk." Talking is not good enough!

A couple of years back, the English Scouting Magazine, asked the Boy Scouts to write in with what they thought a Scout Leader is to look like. They got a lot of replies, and by far most of them described the English Scout Leader as a "Chubby Cuddly Chap with a beard." I wonder how the American Boy Scouts would describe their American Scoutmasters ? Yes I was an English Scout Leader, and did at one time have a beard (Until it went the color of my hair - White!!) At almost six foot and 165 pound I never thought of myself as being chubby. However Her That Must Be Obeyed, does say that at times I can be cuddly !! While I think of it most of the English boys thought that the Scout Leaders name was Skip and Bob came in a close second.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)