Eagle732

I decided to try one of our recently purchased unauthorized fundraiser pizza kits from Corbi's for dinner tonight. Opened the box and inside is a coupon for some of their other products. On it is a picture of a group of people representing some of the groups that use Corbi's. And in this group is a Cub Scout in full uniform! Could this be what BSA is upset about? There is a disclaimer stating that those pictured should not be considered an endorsement.

I looked at the link to poisonous plants and yes there are many in our region that could be identified during the winter. However reviewing page #59 in the handbook shows IMO that the poison ivy, oak and sumac plants are the focus of the requirement. Also the requirement refers to page #318 for first aid however that page refers you back to page #59! Page #318 does have actual pictures of the poisonous plants. Having pictures on hand might be a way to complete the requirement but there is nothing like pointing out the plants during a hike.

It was verbal. Council also said that other similar fundraisers such as Little Caesars pizza are approved, only Corbi's is prohibited.

I don't know if the CC can act as an ASM but what really bothers me is this statement "SM humiliated our son at a campout in front of the entire troop and then drug my son out of his tent while he was still in his cot one morning at 5 AM." This is unacceptable if it happened as described. In fact dragging a boy anywhere could be considered criminal.

Tenderfoot requirement #11 states "Identify local poisonous plants; tell how to treat for exposure to them." How does a Scout ID local poisonous plants such as poison ivy during the winter when there is none? I guess he could look at pictures in the book but is that the same as finding the real thing? Is it fair to make them wait 4 months until the poison ivy starts growing? Any suggestions?

Had a meeting with the council finance person today, here's the official story. Council was directed by National about 1 year ago to notify all units that selling Corbi's will not be allowed. The decision was based on what BSA felt was trademark infringement with using it's name and logo improperly. National is working with Corbi's and they may become an "authorized" fundraiser in the future.

I asked our U.C. on Weds. to check into this. We'll see if he comes up with an answer.

There was no mention of wearing the uniform or not, if that were the case they could have sent a notice out that said no uniform shall be worn during selling and no fundraising permits would be approved. In reality it's the parents selling it to other family, friends and coworkers. Council just said it is not an authorized fundraiser and if you have any questions call your commissioner. No other explanation given.

First off I'll assume that Joe Corbi Pizza is not sold throughout the country. The company is located in Baltimore, MD and make pizza kits and other food products for non-profits and other organizations to sell as fundraisers. My units have sold these products, they are of good quality, their service is good and the profit one can make is reasonable. Units in my area have used this company for years and the company has even been invited to Roundtable meetings to offer samples and information on their products. Our council has just notified units that this company is no longer an"authorized fundraiser". The notice mentions that the company does not have permission to use the BSA brand or image. I have their literature and have looked at their website and I do not see the BSA brand or image used. Have other councils made similar decisions banning specific products from being sold for fundraiser

You can download them from the National website, they're under "Adult" then "Publications"

Does soliciting funds online (or any other way) comply with the BSA fundraising policy? Our troop considered doing this but we weren't sure it was OK to do.

Funny you should ask. I just finished looking at rosters from our troop from 1926 to 1944. Seems as though there were more boys in the troop then than there is now. Of course that was before rec. ball, after school activities and such. I think the boys were just happy to get away from the farm for a few hours. I don't know what BSA did to deal with the tough times but I know some of the rosters indicate that some boys didn't have uniforms. I also have my late uncles Cub Scout uniform from 1939 - 1940. It has no patches on it other than the CUBS BSA strip and a rank patch. I asked my mother why she thought there were no unit numbers or council patch on it. She said her parents probably couldn't afford them! So I guess everyone made due with what they had and did what they could afford to do. Local camping trips, homemade gear etc. If you look at the old handbooks it didn't take much in those days to outfit yourself.

Left overs from our outings go in the troop's pantry for use on the next trip. Any patrol can shop from the pantry, if it's on the shelf it's available, if it's in a patrol box (also stored in the pantry) it's taken. Perishables go in the fridge and can be marked by the patrol who intends to use it. We started doing this two years ago and it helps keep food costs within the patrol's budget and keeps food from going to waste or being sent home.

If a Scout needs to leave for sports/band then a parent needs to pick them up. I don't like it but I don't think there is a lot I can do about it. If someone had an answer to that please let me know. Better to have them there for half a weekend then none at all. They are asked to to return to help unload when we get back but they usually don't.

Of the three thru-hikers we met on the trail two of them said they were Eagle Scouts and one was still active in his troop.

SSScouter, That packframe is made by Sierra Pack Frame Co., San Luis Obispo, CA. It's made of curved slats of what looks like oak. Burned into it is "Philmont 1960 728A". This pack frame belonged to my uncle who went to Philmot that year as a leader. He was a Scout/Scouter for 61 years from the time he joined Cub Scouts in 1939 until his death in 2000.

 

This article was posted on Whiteblaze.net. For those who haven't been to the site it's worth checking out. If you are planning an AT hike or would just like to learn more about it this is a good place to go. Lots of information on backpacking, some of which goes against established BSA wisdom (such as hiking in running shoes).

 

Our troop camped with 3 southbound thru-hikers last October in Maryland. At least one of them, "Johnny" and his dog "Cash" has since completed the trail. These 3 had a great discussion with our scouts about thru-hiking and answered many questions.

Our District Advancement guy has been quoted as saying that no boy can show leadership unless he has done at least 300 to 400 hours. He also says he isn't adding to the requirements!

These Scouts averaged 17 miles a day carrying up to two weeks worth of food and supplies and using the 1930's equipment. I have an old wooden pack frame that went to Philmont in 1960, I can't imagine carrying that thing for 4 months!

These Scouts averaged 17 miles a day carrying up to two weeks worth of food and supplies and using the 1930's equipment. I have an old wooden pack frame that went to Philmont in 1960, I can't imagine carrying that thing for 4 months!

Picked this up on whiteblaze.net and thought I'd pass it on

 

 

Appalachian Trailway News, November/December 1994

 

The Summer of 1936: A flickering memory recalls a thru-hike by Bronx Scouts

 

In 1936, a year before the Appalachian Trail was completed as one

continuos, unbroken footpath, six Boy Scouts from the New York City

area followed the route from Maine to Georgia. It was a 121-day

odyssey into manhood and its significance as perhaps the first

thru-hike of the A.T. wasn't realized until recently by one of the

participants. (Earl Shaffer is credited as the first person to

thru-hike the Trail as a completed footpath. His solo hike was in

1948.)

 

It was only in the last year that Max Gordon became aware that the

Appalachian Trail Conference still existed. An ATC membership

solicitation he received stirred fading memories. He responded by

joining ATC and then searching through boxes of old photos and

mementos. Slowly, he was able to weave together bits and pieces of

the summer of '36 when he and five other teen-aged Scouts made their

journey on the Appalachian Trail.

 

The boys were members of Scout Troop 257 in the Bronx at a time when

Harry T. (Pop) O'Grady, a leader in the area Scout council, suggested

that a local veterans group sponsor an A.T. hike from Maine to

Georgia.

 

Mr. O'Grady "may have been some kind of entrepreneur ... Whenever

there was a problem in Scouting, he was called in. He was a very

persuasive person. He even went to my school principal and talked him

into letting me out early enough in June to go on the hike. Pop

always seemed to be there for us," recalls Mr. Gordon, whose father

had died four months before he was born.

 

The veterans, led by a Mr. Grabow, used their World War I bonuses to

provide equipment and expenses for the trip, and they met the hikers

at various points along the Trail to replenish their supplies.

 

"One of the veterans had a truck, and it was our life-line," says Mr.

Gordon. Since the support vehicle couldn't reach many parts of the

Trail, the boys carried up to two weeks worth of provisions between

visits.

 

"We were poor kids. We couldn't have done it without them," he says.

"My mother made my sleeping bag, and it wasn't fancy at all, no

feathers, just a couple of blankets sewn together. I could pull part

of it over my head to keep the dew off..., and we used ponchos when

it rained. Most of the time we slept out in the open rather than in

shelters." The boys had boots from L.L. Bean, and Mr. Gordon recalls

that his soles finally wore out somewhere in North Carolina.

 

Most of the boys were 16 or 17 years old. At 15, Mr. Gordon was the

youngest and, because of his first-aid training, "was the doctor of

the hike." He doesn't recall any serious medical problems along the

way, and all six completed the hike together.

 

The older boys charted the course (from maps provided by the

veterans) and led the way. The fact that he walked fifth or sixth in

line was a real blessing in Maine, Mr. Gordon recalls. "There was

snow most of the way through Maine, and the older boys had a harder

time because they were breaking trail. I just followed on their

snow-packed tracks."

 

It took two weeks for the boys to reach New Hampshire, and, after

changing clothes and some gear, they started out again. They were a

day late meeting their support truck in Adams, Mass., "but the men

didn't seem to mind."

 

The next section, south through New York, "was very enjoyable because

we were in our own backyard." he says. The boys had often day-hiked

in Harriman State Park. Pop O'Grady and the veterans met the boys at

Bear Mountain Bridge and kept them there a day, to celebrate, rest

and provide a photo opportunity.

 

"I think Pop hoped to use our hike as some sort of promotion," Mr.

Gordon recalls.

 

The hike continued, but the memories are scant. Mr. Gordon remembers

the scenery in Virginia's Shenandoah National Park "being the most

impressive since Maine," but, other than that, the mid-Atlantic A.T.

is a blur.

 

All but three miles of the 2,054-mile Trail had been cleared and

blazed as of 1936: a one-mile stretch between Davenport Gap and the

Big Pigeon River in Tennessee and a two-mile link between Spaulding

and Sugarloaf mountains in Maine. The Maine section was the last to

be completed, and the Trail was opened as an unbroken footpath on

August 14, 1937.

 

"There were times we didn't know if we were on the Trail, and we had

to feel our way," Mr. Gordon recalls.

 

"It is difficult to remember many details so many years ago," he

says. He barely remembers the southern end of the hike. He fingers a

Scottish military pin, given to him by a man he met while hiking in

the Carolinas - "His name was Mr. James McQueen and his daughter,

Flora, was with him. Do you think I could ever find him?" The pin

remains his only keepsake of the hike.

 

Mr. Gordon recalls the easy climb without a backpack up Mt.

Oglethorpe, Ga. (the southern terminus until 1955). The truck was

waiting for the boys to complete the Trail and take them to Atlanta

before heading home.

 

Two of the boys "had been ready to quit at the start because of the

snow and drifts." but they stuck it our. Over all, it had been a

pleasant summer, and, except for minor arguments that occasionally

erupted among the boys, the most disagreeable time was "hiking in

really hot weather." Mr. Gordon recalls.

 

"At the time, we really didn't know what a feat this had been." Mr.

Gordon says. But, back in school and Scouting, he says the boys found

they had to live up to newly acquired reputations. His older brother,

Mandel, recently recalled that his sibling had lacked the

self-confidence needed to be a leader. But, "after the hike, that

fear seemed to have vanished," Max Gordon remembers. "Other boys and

girls turned to me for leadership. The hike had given me 'status',

and it was respected by the teachers. It was a very good feeling."

 

Slowly and one by one, as the boys graduated, they drifted apart.

Many, like Mr. Gordon, were active in different branches of the

service during World War II. Mr. Gordon recalls that one boy in the

group, Louis Zisk, was a Marine who was killed during the was.

Another in the group, Seymour Dorfman, who died only a couple of

years ago, "was my best friend for 42 years," he adds. Mr. Dorfman

served in the Army in North Africa and Italy during World War II.

 

Mr. Gordon can recall only a nickname or two about the other three

boys, and he suspects that he many be the only one left.

 

If Pop O'Grady planned to turn the hike into a publicity campaign in

behalf of Scouting, it never materialized, Mr. Gordon says. He had

heard, long ago, that Mr. O'Grady left Scouting during the was and

had become head of a Catholic youth organization of the West Coast.

 

As for Mr. Gordon, now 73 and in good health, he has so far served 60

years with the Boy Scouts and has received some of the organization's

highest honors, including the Wood Badge (Jan. 18, 1958) and the

Silver Beaver (June 5, 1961). He was personally cited by Presidents

Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy. In May 1960, he was the

first Scout in the nation to receive the Shofar Award from the Jewish

Committee on Scouting.

 

He worked at the Bronx Botanical Gardens and the Brooklyn Navy Yard

before joining the Navy and serving with the Seabees in the Pacific

during the war. Afterward, he settled back into life in the Bronx

neighborhood of his bride, Lilian. He recalls being home only two

weekends the first year he was a Scout leader. Most of the time, the

Scouts were out on day and weekend hikes.

 

Often he was back on the A.T. Later, when he was in his 30s, his

Explorer Troop challenged him to a 72-mile A.T. hike southward from

Kent, Conn. Fourteen started the marathon hike, and, 18 hours later,

Mr. Gordon and three Scouts completed the trek. He says he'll never

forget how much his muscles tightened up after sitting briefly in a

car following that hike.

 

When he first started dating his wife-to-be, he recalls "wanting to

make sure she could walk. So we took a five-mile hike on the A.T.,

and she did pretty well, considering she was wearing high heels."

 

A seasonal Christmas-time job with the post office turned into a

career. Mr. Gordon was a clerk for 18 years in New York City and the

vicinity, after which time he began earning bonuses for suggestions

that worked. As a result, he was promoted so much that, by the time

he retired at age 57, he was a postal operations analyst responsible

for all offices from Maine to northern New Jersey and including the

West Indies.

 

Mr. Gordon had built a chalet in Dingmans Ferry, Pa., and the couple

retired there briefly before moving to northcentral Florida. In the

15 years they've been in Beverly Hills, Fla., Mr. Gordon has been

involved with the volunteer fire department and several fraternal

organizations and spent nine year putting records together for the

local (Citrus County) historical society. And, he says, he has never

stopped hiking.

 

One of the most vivid memories he has taken with him for the past 58

years is the day the Scouts were at Franconia Notch in New Hampshire.

 

"We about froze to death. It was nine degrees that morning," Mr.

Gordon recalls. "In the city, you don't get the mist you get in the

woods. But, that morning, the woods felt like another world. Then,

the overpowering sensation of reaching up on those tall mountains,

reaching up as if a man could put his hand out and touch -- I don't

know, it's a real sense of religion you never forget as long as you

live."

 

The following American (Sioux) Indian prayer is a tribute to that

experience, Mr. Gordon feels. He learned it in Scouting, and for

years it's been part of his life. He handily pronounces the Lakota

words: "Wakonda They Thu Wapathin A To-Hey."

 

Drawing back on his A.T. experience as a 15-year-old boy who was

"just having a good time," he offers a literal translation --"Great

Spirit, a needy one stands before thee; I who speak am he." The

message, for Mr. Gordon, is not in the English interpretation, but

from the feeling of the Lakota words.

I know we have some lawyers out there who can answer this question. When is an individual required by law to submit their SS#?

IMO, the Scoutmaster interprets the requirements and enforces them as he sees fit. Hopefully it is keeping with what was intended by BSA. To me "in the community" includes the campsite we are at even if it's not near where we live. Another SM might interpret it differently though. I tend to look at requirements in a practical way, other have a more strict interpretation.

"An active youth member is one who, with the approval of a

parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates

himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly; fulfills a member's

obligation to the unit: subscribes to the Scout Oath or the code of his

or her respective program; and participates in an appropriate program

based on a member's age, as promulgated from time to time by the Boy

Scouts of America.- Boy Scouts of America Rules & Regulations, Article VII"

 

Where can I get a copy of these rules?

We just lowered our dues from $100 to $50 in order to be competitive with other troops in our area, most seem to charge $50. We will need to make up the difference with fundraising. Dues pay for patches, handbook, patrol equipment, Boys Life, and registration. No charge for adult registration. It's pay as you go on trips.

Any units out there that own thier own building?