Eagle732

I'm in the same council as DPWatson. At our district's Roundtable last night this was discussed. This is apparently a 4 year phase in with Scoutmaster, Cubmaster and Crew Advisors mandatory this year for recharter (recharter is due in Dec. only 3 months away!) 2nd year all Committee Chairpersons, 3rd year all direct contact leaders over 21, 4th year 18 -21 y.o. Assistant SMs. Here's the problem which was brought up at roundtable, one needs the Individual Leadership Outdoors Skills (ILOS) weekend course to be "trained" as a Scoutmaster, ASM or Crew Advisor but our district only offers it once a year in April. The same with the Scoutmaster Fundamentals, only offered once a year. The answer we got to that one was go to another district! I'm wondering what happens when a SM quits a unit in say July and the guy willing to take his place needs to come up with all this training in short order. Do you think council will not recharter? We'll see.

I'm in the same council as DPWatson. At our district's Roundtable last night this was discussed. This is apparently a 4 year phase in with Scoutmaster, Cubmaster and Crew Advisors mandatory this year for recharter (recharter is due in Dec. only 3 months away!) 2nd year all Committee Chairpersons, 3rd year all direct contact leaders over 21, 4th year 18 -21 y.o. Assistant SMs. Here's the problem which was brought up at roundtable, one needs the Individual Leadership Outdoors Skills (ILOS) weekend course to be "trained" as a Scoutmaster, ASM or Crew Advisor but our district only offers it once a year in April. The same with the Scoutmaster Fundamentals, only offered once a year. The answer we got to that one was go to another district! I'm wondering what happens when a SM quits a unit in say July and the guy willing to take his place needs to come up with all this training in short order. Do you think council will not recharter? We'll see.

Which is worse, those that want to kick out someone or those who want to quit because they don't like what is going?

I have a Hennessy Hyperlight Hammock and have used it on a few week long backpacking trips. Heres a few observations, your experience may vary.

1.Basic hammock is lighter than a tent however a hammock needs insulation underneath of it in all but the warmest weather. If you try to sleep on a pad in it then it will shift and become uncomfortable. The insulation needs to be on the outside and under the hammock and needs a water resistant outer shell over (see Hennessys Super Shelter). By the time you add all up the weight of the hammock with bug netting, insulation system and tarp you have as much weight as a light weight backpacking tent and sleeping pad.

2.If you can sleep all night on your back you might be comfortable but I tend to toss and turn all night and I like to sleep on my side. I have a hard time sleeping in it.

3.If youre setting up in an area with no trees or trees the wrong size you will have a hard time hanging a hammock. This means sleeping on the ground with no pad.

4.Its nice to be able to sleep level without the lumps and bumps of rough ground.

5.Its the coolest way to spend a hot summer night.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. The troop's advancement chair thought that MBs were not official, and therefore could not be used for rank advancement until after the paperwork was submitted to council and the MBs were awarded at a COH. This would mean that they could not be used for rank until the next COH 3 months from now. A call to Council set me straight. The Scout earns the MB when the counselor signs off as completed. It is then available to be used for rank advancement.

When is a merit badge officially earned? Is it after the SM signs the blue card the second time or after the advancement form is sent to and returned to council?

You made a great suggestion unfortunately many posters assumed you meant that thread only

Really??? That is unfortunate, I try to teach my children and my Scouts to be courteous and respectful of others at all times.

I don't think the guy who designed this patch needs to go to patch design school. He is the head of the art dept.for a major patch design and production company with at least 35 years experience.

Bob,

You didnt get the last word on the Margaret said I will not be so foolish again thread. On that thread there was not even one response to my idea that maybe we should consider the 5th point of the Scout Law when posting. To me this speaks volumes. We did however have over 100 posts on a thread discussing wearing uniforms during an Eagle project.

After reading the thread I can sympathize with Margaret. Ive seen members (intentionally or not) be tough on and sometimes really beat up on someone who doesnt agree with them. I personally dont like it and would rather avoid it. I limit my posts now because of it. I think there would be more participation on this forum if we followed the 5th point of the Scout Law.

Our Scouts wear the uniform during all service projects, including Eagle projects. The exception being hot weather or dirty work, in those cases they can wear the troop T shirt. Most wear the troop T shirt under the uniform, just in case. We just had a discussion about this with several Eagle candidates just starting projects. It is my opinion that they represent the troop so they should wear some type of uniform to be recognized. I didnt consider legal or insurance issues, I just made the discussion based on what I thought was right.

Mike,thanks for the stats from you district, they seem to confirm my beliefs. Scouts can get lost in big troops and the SM has a tough time getting to know each scout. I have SM conferences at least twice a year with each scout and quarterly with troop officers. I would rather be a friend and mentor than a CEO to the scouts.

I have had parents state that the reason they went to another troop was because the troop creates lots of Eagle Scouts. I wonder what the actual percentage is though. Interestingly enough out of 30 total scouts we have 5 working on Eagle projects. Our last Eagle stayed on after turning 18 and is now an ASM. That what I call retention!

Also, I just posed the question after the discussion with Mega Troop's CC about recruiting 30 scouts. I'm not against Mega Troops, my son visited the Mega Troop I referred to two years ago but he decided to go with the local troop even though no other Webelos from his den went with him. I was proud of him for making the choice he felt was right for him without bowing to peer pressure and going with the rest to the Mega Troop.

GW, I'm well aware of what it takes to start a new unit. Last year I helped start a new pack in our area after the previous pack struggled with no help from District for years. We have organizations that are asking to charter new units but we don't have enough boys in the area to justify it. Besides that's the DE's job. Anyway I think it's a shame that good units struggle, out resourced by the Mega Units, but hey maybe it's just me!

Walmart effect, that discribes what I'm seeing in our district. Three or four Mega Troops while many others struggle. If the smaller units fold then I would think many boys would miss out on Scouting if the parents are not willing to travel. My unit does OK but I see others just getting by. Meanwhile the CC of one Mega Troop tells me they recruited almost 30 scouts this year and thier meeting hall isn't big enough anymore! Seems like the DC should be thinking of starting new units in these areas.

Our troop has an Eagle Scout Coordinator. I would describe his duties as:

One who is knowledgeable in the Eagle advancement process, maintains contact with the District Eagle Coordinator, keeps up to date with the changes in the process, reviews Eagle projects before they are sent to District, acts as a mentor, recruits and instructs other adults when we have more than one candidate going through the process at one time.

Our ESC knows more than I (the SM) about the process. We work together to encourage Life Scouts to earn Eagle.

Mega Troops

The Mega-Troop. This unit has maybe 100 scouts or more, lots of parents willing to help, lots of recourses, they send multiple crews to high adventure camps each year and have plenty of leaders to oversee program. This is all good but what about the Mini-Troop nearby? This unit has few scouts, maybe a dozen or less, has a hard time getting the minimum two adults to go camping, has few resources, and is one or two key people away from folding.

Baden-Powell suggested that a troop of about 30 is optimum, with four patrols of 6 to 8 scouts each. With this in mind Id like to pose a few questions:

Is the Mega-Troop good or bad for Scouting and more importantly the individual scouts?

If not then what should be done and by who?

I attended U of S last Sat. too, it was my 5th time attennding and as usual it was a great program. I like the mix of classes available and that there are new and different courses each year. Thanks to the dedicated staff who put on the program.

I give a green Turks Head knot slide to each new scout to go with his new red neckerchief. You can buy cord in different colors at the big box hardware stores. Search online to see how to tie them, after a few tries youll be able to do it without the instructions.

Warren,

One of my ticket items I called Webelos to Troop Day. I invited several local troops and packs to a day of demonstrations by the troops. This was an opportunity for 2nd year Webelos to meet troops at one location and encourage them to cross to Boy Scouts, It was also an opportunity for the troops to recruit. Troops brought recruitment information and had games and skills stations set up for the Webelos. It was a great success, so much so that it continues 5 years latter.

I did a variety of ticket items to focus on district, unit, and self. Taking a training course related to my position counted, I did our councils University of Scouting emphasizing Cub Scout leader skills. Another item was developing a course and teaching it at our districts training day.

I think your District website is a fine idea. Its nice to see a ticket item carry on after youre done. I had the same situation with the staff wanting the tickets done before we left that second weekend.

Good Luck

Man this is one tough crowd! I didnt want to post that Philmont wasnt responding; I figured they were busy and would get back to me when they could. In the meantime I thought that posting might get some information from others who have questioned this already. The Health and Safety Officer, Gavin Faulkner was very helpful once I actually got to speak to him, he spent at least 15 minutes on the phone with me. He understands this is a problem that needs to be addressed. Im surprised that no one else from this forum has actually called out there to question this considering how many calls Philmont is apparently getting on this.

For me it's mostly a time issue. I work 6 out of 8 weekends, having only 2 weekends off in a 2 month period. As a SM I use one of those weekends to take my unit on a camping trip which leaves one weekend every two months for family stuff. On weekends when I'm working and we have camping trips I have to use vacation time. So spending a weekend taking a course that I don't feel will be of benefit is out of the question. I don't mind taking useful training, in fact I'm attending our council's University of Scouting next Sat. The other issue is the cost; I'd rather give $90 to FOS. Now in 4 years when my son is old enough to go to Philmont I'd be glad to spend the money for him to attend WFA since he has no first aid training other than First Aid MB. I think it would benefit him.

My uncle was in Scouting for 61 years from Cubs until his passing in 2000. I was very close to him; he is the reason why my parents got me into Scouting. He spent most of his adult life in Columbia Montour Council serving in many council positions. When he died my aunt gave me all of his Scouting memorabilia, Im sure I have Camp Lavigne, Columbia Montour and Wynona Lodge patches. I would be happy to share these with you.

An EMT, and Ill go out on a limb and say an EMT from any state since I have held certificates in 3 different states, exceeds the level of WFA Basic which is the standard that Philmont has set. Ive reviewed the Red Cross WFA Basic text and the only thing in there not covered in EMT is the BSA 10 Essentials. My department training officer reviewed the WFA handbook and agrees. I spoke with Philmonts Health and Safety Officer after trading emails and playing phone tag for the last two days. He agrees that EMT exceeds the standard of WFA Basic, However he answers to a Medical Director (an MD whose license the paramedics and health staff operates under) who does not agree. The Doc has the final word; those who work in EMS understand this principle. The Health and Safety Officer says hes received many calls on this subject is working towards having this policy changed. In the meantime it seems as if WFA Basic is required for this year. I would like to thank the Philmont staff for being so helpful and answering my questions.

My initial post just asked the question why doesnt BSA accept EMT as sufficient training in place of Wilderness First Aid? I thought Id post here to see if others have run into this problem too. Im not against additional training, just redundant training.