eagle-pete

John - "BTW, COR selecting leaders? Sounds like the Scouting system of leader selection to me!" Not quite sure what you mean. It was my understanding that in non-LDS units the Pack Committee has the responsibility of selecting the Cubmaster. Is this not true? This does not occur in an LDS unit. The Bishop(COR) will call a Cubmaster to the position. "Make sure, though, before you do, that you understand your local level vision and goals for Scouting! Active listening will save you agony!" Absolutely.. I completely agree. Eagle Pete

Lisabob, I guess what I may have been thinking is Pack Trainer. However, that is really a position to promote training for the leaders. The current Cubmaster is female and our church (LDS) does not allow male-female CM and ACMs to hold those positions together unless they are married (which we are not). Also, in the LDS Church the Committee does not select a Cubmaster. This is done by the COR, so any changes there are up to him. John, I see what you mean. I certainly would not want to be construede as a spy. I do think that serving as a CC may be possible. There is currently no Pack Committee Chair. A general Scouting Committee has been organized for our CO. I might be able to serve as a Pack Committee Chair within that committee, not sure. We do have a Wood Badge trained scouter in our organization who can make these kinds of assignments. I will talk with that person and see if he has any suggestions where I can be of best service for our pack. Thank you for all your feedback Eagle Pete

The "Super Den" topic reminded me of a common problem which I have seen - Combining Dens Actually, combining dens is more of a symptom of underlying problems. What I have observed is a series of issues and problems which lead up to combining dens. The problem actually begins with, of course, parents and leaders. A breakdown of communication between a Den Leader or the Cubmaster and the parents, or a combination of these key people in the pack, occurs. For example, in our pack, we had separate Wolf and Bear dens. The Bear Den Leader failed having regular weekly meetings and the Cubmaster failed to sufficiently plan and organize a few pack meetings and some other pack activities (of course the Pack Committee is essentially non-functioning). When these problems occur, parents become frustrated and ultimately, boys lose interest or stop attending cubs altogether. The resulting decision of our Chartered Organization was to combine the Wolf and Bear dens, which now have a total of 4 or 5 boys. The reasoning for the decision is, of course, lack of sufficient leadership and less boys in the dens. However, in my humble, trained, experienced opinion, the true underlying reasons began with a breakdown in leadership. My wife, now the Wolf/Bear Den Leader, is doing the best she can keeping the two dens functioning, and providing a worthwhile experience for the boys who attend. I do not advise combining dens for several reasons, the most obvious is, of course, Wolf and Bear age boys have different needs and the two dens should be run separately because they are geared for those ages. I would like to point out that this is a prime example of how things can deteriorate when the program is missing vital parts, like a committee and good, trained leaders. I''d like to help so I am seriously considering approaching the COR and the Cubmaster and offering to join the Committee as a Pack Advisor. As a Trained Scouter and former Cubmaster I may have some experience that could be helpful for the pack. The questions I''d like to pose are what suggestions do you have at this point and how can this be avoided in the future? Eagle Pete

One more issue. We had a Scout sign up who is 7 years old and in the 1st grade that was supposedly a Tiger in another Pack last year. Should he be a Tiger again this year or a Wolf? 8 year old boys should go in the Wolf Den. His parents may have signed him up as a Tiger by mistake. Also, just to clarify. I'm sure you are aware that he would be in the Wolf Den, but he still needs to earn the Wolf Rank (or Bobcat first, if he hasn't already). Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

Pack212Scouter Welcome and Congratz! Of course, since you are familiar with Wood Badge you should know that you will be experiencing a week like no other you''ve ever been to. Ok, as far as what to expect... Don''t be too eager to prepare too much. You will receive a packet in the mail from your Course Director with some instructions, a list of items to bring, a few forms to fill out, etc. Just take care of all of that when it arrives. Beyond that, there isn''t really that much to do. You may receive a plethora of advise and information either from this forum and/or from people you know, all with good intentions, who want to prepare you for Wood Badge. Try not to be too concerned with it all. Try to go to Wood Badge with as few preconceived ideas as possible. Don''t let anyone taint your perceptions. Go to Wood Badge with an open mind, ready to learn, and ready to take it all in. You may have already heard about the Wood Badge ticket. Don''t be too concerned with that. It is part of the experience and you will have plenty of help with it on the course. My best advise would be to just go. There really isn''t anything I can tell you that will make your experience "better". However, I will say that you will only be a Wood Badge participant once in your life. Savor the experience. What you put into it is what you will get out of it. Have a great course. Let us know how it turned out when you get back. Eagle Pete

What about the costs of NOT attending Wood Badge? I often hear about the complaints of those who have never attended a Wood Badge course. Inevitably, one of the first things people say is (1)the fee is too high and (2)I can''t afford to take that much time off work. Every year, somehow, hundreds of participants and staff seem to figure out ways to go to Wood Badge. There are many ways to help with costs. Personally, I used my vacation time this year for Wood Badge. It may seem unreasonable to some people, but my family understands how important it is. Often this is boils down to a question of priorities. Like Eamonn says... it is surprising how many people seem willing to waste $50.00, and then baulk at the idea of spending $200 and taking a week out of their life for something worth while. The truth is, if the fees for attending Wood Badge doubled there would still be courses held with participants eager to get in. It''s just that valuable. Heck, corporations spend 20 times the cost of a Wood Badge course for similar material that isn''t presented with near the amount of fun as Wood Badge. For me, $200 is an extremely cheap 1 week vacation. Eagle Pete

I just wanted to share a little bit of Wood Badge with y''all I was invited to serve on staff for a two-weekend course which just completed last weekend. I served as Troop Guide over the Antelope Patrol. It went so fast.. months of preparation only for 6 short days. I already miss it, like one of those vacations you come back from and want to go back. If you will permit me, here are a couple highlights that stand out: My friends that I pushed and prodded to go were there And they are now even better friends. This was a husband and wife attending together, and as you know, this can be one of the best experiences for both. They have both thanked me for making sure they went. My reward is to see them now happier than they ever were. Win All You Can Without disclosing any of the particulars of this portion of the course, the coolest part of this for me was watching the transformation of the participants. As a participant, I never really understood this activity... not until I witnessed it as a staff member. Birth of my 4th daughter We were blessed with another daughter while I served on staff. Don''t worry, we had mom induced between weekends so I was able to be at the birth and also take my wife to and from the hospital. This was a challenge for me, as we were not really sure when we''d have the baby until a day or two before the inducement was scheduled. Her actual due date was on Day 5 during the course. I am glad I stayed with the course. Neither my wife nor I regret the decision. Staff Dinner It was then that our whole staff really became close. We shared some very personal feelings and appreciation there. Our friendships, brotherhood, and camaraderie solidified. There are very few experiences which I have had that allows for this kind of relationship building. Many of us will undoubtedly remain friends for life. Of course, my patrol As a Troop Guide, I had direct interaction with 6 participants: the antelopes. We became great friends and they became a great patrol. We shared a lot of experiences and good times. I hope they were able to have as good an experience as I had as a participant, that was one of the things I hoped to achieve. I now look forward to beading ceremonies. These were just a few of the experiences, there were many more. Hopefully I''ll get a chance again to go up to The Hill. Eagle Pete

We do Something to keep in mind. We have a person (a committee member over equipment, to be specific) who is in charge of the "uniform closet". We have found that if no one is designated to be in charge of it, uniforms and other materials tend to disappear or become forgotten. This defeats the purpose of the supply because parents and leaders pay little attention to it and it is no longer used for families who need it. When organized properly it is invaluable. I''d make sure there is a checkout list and an inventory maintained. Have parents sign out for any uniform or materials they use. Make sure that if they do not return the materials, they should reimburse the Troop/pack (A Scout is trustworthy). Materials not returned cannot be used to help another family. Eagle Pete

My $0.02 Well, our CO does not permit any overnight camping for Cub Scouts (exception: if it is a ''family'' camp when parents are with their boys, overnight camping is fine). I am, however, involved in our Boy Scout program. Something to consider is requirement 2b for Second Class is to "...sleep in a tent that you pitched." IMO, camping out of doors means sleeping in a tent. That having been said, depending on the age of a Cub Scout, he may or may not be ready to sleep in a tent without a parent. I would not push it if a Cub Scout feels apprehensive about it. In a couple years he''ll be ready. Eagle Pete

I have found that most older boys are not at first over enthusiastic about being a Den Chief. It is primarily a leadership skills building position. Many times it does take time for a boy scout to warm up to the idea. On occasion you get a boy who has natural leadership abilities and can catch on immediately. These are generally the exception, and it is a blessing to the Troop and to the Pack. It is normal for a boy to be apprehensive at first when faced with the duties of Den Chief. Remember, we are "[preparing] young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." Most boys need to be trained for leadership positions. This is, after all, what we are trying to do and it is surprising that some of the seemingly most unlikely boys respond well in these positions when properly prepared. A good, well trained Den Chief is not only a valuable asset to the Pack, but also a leadership position we use to prepare these boys to become great leaders. Eagle Pete

awesome1_in_cc I''m not one to "blast" anyone so you won''t see that from me. I would like to point out some observations, however. My take on fund raising is that it should really be for a specific activity, like an outing or a fun summer activity that needs extra funds not normally available in the pack budget. Normal pack expenses should come from dues or from the Chartered Organization. I don''t like depending on fund raising just to run the program and there is something about the concept of each scout (or parent) paying their dues. Also, if your unit is having trouble seeing the "all in this together" picture, I recommend getting as many of your leaders trained and to Wood Badge as you can. This should resolve a great deal of the "what''s in it for me" syndrome. Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete)

kb6jra I didn''t get the Mommy award. Must have missed that one. My patrol commented that they got several compliments on the gifts (they wore many of them around their necks). The Troop Guides on this course were not big on gifts at first. But after a couple days they got more into it. Of course I had mine all prepared, they had to make theirs on the fly. From what I could tell, all the gifts were much appreciated. I didn''t get any indication, either from participants or staff, that this was overboard. These were small gifts, hand made, and inexpensive. Before the course began, I was able to visit with a former Course Director and we talked about Troop Guides - what makes a good Troop Guide, etc... One of the things he told me was to make sure that each day the participants have something they can carry with them which represents something they learned at Wood Badge. If one of these gifts meant something, other than a wall hanging, then I did my job. Eagle Pete

UPDATE: Well, the (practical) course is complete and I must say I was sad to leave. It was a great Wood Badge course. Here''s what I gave as gifts to my patrol (each participant got one of each): SMART keyring - handmade with letter beads which spelled SMART strung on a small leather string "I Can" cans - small (6 oz) cans with a short poem inside. Outside lable printed with "My ''I Can''" and beads clipart. Meant to remind them they CAN finish their tickets and earn the beads. Seizing Bend knot - made with two ropes tied in a Seizing Bend http://books.google.com/books?id=HpV86k0kLagC&pg=PT193&lpg=PT193&dq=seizing+bend&source=web&ots=Yfkay7sPEd&sig=VEbvaAzadJ1GlQP7MkH-EZWaNQs#PPT256,M1 This represents the leader and the scout. Monkey''s Fist knot - this represents holding tight to Scouting like the monkey that holds onto the bait. Small (1 1/2 inch dia.) wooden medalion hung on a rope with a picture of an axe and log. Large (7 inch dia.) wood decopage with a photo of an antelope on it. Home made card with a personal letter written inside. I wrote letters to particular staff members that made the experience special for me in some way. Eagle Pete

At my ceremony I had 2 of my patrol show up. I felt that was a pretty decent show. Some patrols end up being closer than others. Or it may be your timing just isn''t right for them. Whatever the reason for them not being able to show, I would not harbor any bad feelings. If you are invited to attend one of their ceremonies, make your best effort to attend and don''t mention this at their ceremony. Be as courteous as you can. My patrol did try to stay in touch for a while, but I have not heard from any of them for a couple years. I am not even certain whether they all received their beads. When I got my beads I sent out invitations to all my patrol members. I have not heard word from a few of them whether they even had a beading ceremony. The important thing is you completed your ticket and got your beads. It''s nice when a patrol is very close, but it is not the most important part of your Wood Badge experience.

I went to a PowWow one year as a Cub Leader. One of the classes I happened to take was an introduction to Order of the Arrow. The focus of the class was to inform Scout leaders what the purposes of OA are and the opertunities of service which OA provides to the troops, communities, and units within their chapter. The person that led the discussion was a very bright, intelligent, and knowledgable young man. He was a Boy Scout in every sense of the word. He was very confident. He projected a sense of honor and quality which the OA and the Boy Scouts of America embodies. I was so impressed with this young man that I felt compelled to pass on the information he presented to the Boy Scouts in our own troop. The folks in charge of that PowWow could not have chosen a better instructor for that class. I was convinced that day that this program really works. That we do, in fact, help boys to become great men. I will always remember that class and the outstanding Boy Scout who taught it. Eagle Pete

I will soon be headed up to The Hill. I am a Troop Guide on this course. I am trying to think of good ideas for other staff members. What have you given? What are some good ideas? We do have some guidelines like no gifts over $5. Gifts are not mandatory. Gifts can be given in private or in front of the whole staff, giver's preference. I understand a big "staff" gift to the Course Director is already being arranged. I am talking about gifts from individual staff members to other staff members. Before you start saying, "It depends on the individual. We don't have any idea what you should give." I understand that. What I am looking for are ideas or examples of gifts. Thanks in advance Eagle Pete

As stated on the Boy Scouts of America Youth Application, parents sign and agree to the following when their son joins the BSA - "Parent Agreement I have read the Cub Scout Promise and I want my son to join the pack. I will assist him in observing the policies of the Boy Scouts of America and of his packs chartered organization. I will While he is a Tiger Cub, serve as his adult partner and participate in all meetings and activities and approve his advancement.* While he is a Cub Scout, help him grow as a Cub Scout and approve his Cub Scout advancement. While he is a Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, or Webelos Scout, attend monthly pack meetings and take part in other activities; assist pack leaders as needed. *If the parent is not serving as the adult partner, the parental signature on the application indicates approval of the adult partner and also if the adult partner does not live at the same address as the Tiger Cub, a separate adult application is required." It may be helpful to remind them of this agreement if they are unwilling to help in the pack. However, I am not real big on making anyone do anything. As a volunteer myself, I do whatever I can as a scout leader. To date, no one has ever made me do anything in BSA. I would have a hard time forcing any such expectations on others. Just my $0.02 Eagle Pete

FYI - http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/yearpins.htm http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/cubinsignia.html Eagle Pete

alexsma In 2 weeks I will be headed up to (what we affectionately call) The Hill. But this time I will be there as a Troop Guide. 4 years and 3 months ago I was right where you are now; a Wood Badge participant. I too am in the Eagle Patrol. Like you, I was on a 2-weekend course. And much like you, between weekends, I felt some of the same anxieties trying to take everything in, struggling with writing ticket items, working to get the project finished, working on my part in the Campfire Program, filling out my 360 evaluations, and overall just trying to get everything accomplished. I understand what you are experiencing. Yes, this is normal. You should be feeling somewhat overwhelmed, some information overload, a little uncertain, and some good, healthy trepidation to get your ticket items written. I would be concerned if you werent feeling this way. But you should also be having a great time! There is nothing like Wood Badge. The camaraderie and friendships you are developing will be part of your life for a long time. You should be catching a unique spirit of Scouting. You should be starting to form your own vision of Scouting. You should be starting to look at Scouting from a more goal-oriented perspective. Go to your Troop Guide for assistance on your ticket items. That person is your primary resource. They are trained to provide direction and guidance to you. In fact, that is their primary responsibility on the Wood Badge course. And so in a matter of days I will be back on The Hill assisting participants just like you with their tickets, their vision, and their understanding. I am not sure who is more scared; you or me. Have a GREAT course Yours in Scouting Eagle Pete

Ok They're not really going to oust the CM and ACM. That was just me blowing off some steam. Still, I am disappointed in the Cubmaster. Having served in that position before, I know what it takes, how the boys look up to her/him, and the example the CM is (should be) for the boys. IMHO, the Cubmaster should be present at EVERY event, meeting, activity, and get-together which the boys are involved with. The Cubmaster should also be aware that the boys are observant, smart, and are very much aware of the attitudes and level of care their leaders have for them. Additionally, every event should have a purpose. The purpose of a Cub Scout Service Project is first, and foremost, to introduce and teach the boys that service is a big part of Scouting. I am on the outside now, looking in on this pack - just observing (although I do what I can. I volunteered to help run the Pinewood this year. That was a great event - different story). It just pains me to watch the Cubmaster fail those boys. It's hard to see them coming to Pack meetings and service projects, hoping to have a fun time at Cub Scouts, and see them walk away with that look in their eyes, you know, like, "that wasn't so great.." I wonder how many of those boys I will see come up in the Troop (where I am currently serving). How much triage will I end up doing to get them excited about Scouting again? Thanks for the feedback. Eagle Pete

Sorry, I left out this detail - They had a pack meeting the night before the Service Project. This seemed like a great time to make the final announcement for the activity and make sure everyone knows where, what time, and who should be there. My wife did confirm with the ACM that she would be there. The CM bailed early from the pack meeting as usual so we could not talk with her. We thought this was sufficient follow up. I guess not. Eagle Pete

This is in behalf of my wife, who is currently serving as a Den Leader. The other day our pack did a service project picking up trash at a local city park. This was a fairly well planned activity. My wife attended all the planning meetings and it was her impression that everyone understood all the vital details (when, where, who, what, how, etc...). My wife (being 7 months pregnant) had a special request that the ACM make sure to assist her with her den. There are a couple more active boys in her den and she felt she needed another leader to run after boys or whatever came up. The ACM assured her she would be there to assist my wife. My wife does have an assistant den leader, but due to a recent health issue she could not participate in the service project. Long story, short - Neither the Cubmaster nor the ACM (who was going to assist my wife) bothered showing up at the park. No calls, no explanation, no apologies after... just NO SHOW. I was watching our kids at home so my wife could go and I felt she was fine since they arranged with the ACM to assist her. I believe one other Den Leader and a couple parents did show up. My wife did get some help from a parent and the leader, but they had to cut the project short because there were just not enough leaders. Well, I was livid. I have served as Cubmaster. I felt there was simply no excuse for the CM to just abandon the pack. What did this teach the boys about service on a Service Project? I told my wife if I was one of the cub leaders, I'd be on the phone with the CM that night asking where she was and why she didn't even bother to call or make sure her ACM even showed. I also told her that I would get the patches they planned to present to the boys and hand them out in the next pack meeting - but exclude the CM and ACM... Just as a side note - our CM seems to be less and less "enthusiastic" about her position; dodging assignments, cutting out at pack meetings, canceling activites because of "personal issues". So this was just par for the course. I was not pleased. It's been a day or two now and I have cooled off. But I wanted to post this story and get some feedback on how you would handle this situation if you were a Cub Leader in our pack. Thanks Eagle Pete

Tami Where's the AWESOME! part? Did I miss it? "...two crazy weeks!"? Sounds more like two weeks of ... well, you know where I'm going. Remind me not to volunteer for Camp Director. Eagle Pete

My $0.02 - First of all, I have never run a CS Day Camp so I have no grounds to stand on as far as what should be done about a poorly run Day Camp. But I have been a volunteer Scouter for all of my adult leader years and I can say this... Anything in Scouting run by volunteers has room for improvement. This goes for the poorest run pack to the most efficiently organized trainings and events in Scouting. Yes, there are councils, districts, packs, and dens run by leaders who have motives and agendas which are not in the best interest of parents, leaders, and boys. It is a sad thing to see, but they do exist. I have seen a few posts on this site about it. It very well may take drastic measures in some councils to turn around a poorly run CSDC. I normally do not advise anyone to take their boys elsewhere. There should be several steps which should take place between making formal complaints to the council and deciding not to attend the Day Camp. These should include (perhaps several leaders all over the council) volunteering to "fix" day camp and get things running better, getting involved on the CSDC staff and voice your opinion of what you see needs improvement and change, and be ready to do the work of making those changes happen. Keep in mind (and a well run council will realize this) that without us volunteers doing the hard work of making this program function, there would be no council. The purpose and mission of any BSA Council is to serve the community in which it resides. It happens in my council as well... We have some executive positions filled by people who seem to be there just to claim the title. They have no regard for the parents, volunteers, and boys that make up that council. The only thing that we have been able to really do to make a difference is to pull together, organize, and build the best program we can. There is no magic wand. No secret way to get things done in the council. We just get it done. If there is a problem, someone (likely the people who are aware of the problem) needs to step up and work on a solution. I have never seen any council, good or bad, which responds well to mere complaints and criticism. If you have an idea to improve things or would like to volunteer to run a program or event then just get up and do it. Most councils (especially those not being run well) would welcome someone taking off some of their load. I am sure that Trailblasermom is not just complaining without doing anything and I don't mean to infer that. But the fact is that the only way to make a change in Scouting in any level is to jump in and start making the change. I disagree that taking your boys to a neighboring council is the answer. If there is a problem going on that makes you so frustrated that you or your boys no longer participate, then maybe it is time to take matters into your own hands and start to work on solutions. The hundreds of boys who attend the CSDC in your council will benefit far more from a re-vamped day camp than from an individual leader that takes their boys somewhere else. I've found this to be just as true on the pack level - if the pack (or any Scouting program) isn't functioning, fix it! Don't abandon it. Yes, I have jumped in myself and volunteered to fix problems, make a difference and help. No, it isn't easy. In fact, it is harder than you think and you may or may not be thanked or recognized for your efforts. But it is well worth it when things start to change and it is much more satisfying than just pointing fingers and complaining. Something I have told those who like to point out to me all the faults and failures in a program I am working in is, "What have you done to make a difference in this program? If nothing, then you don't have alot of say in the success or failure of it." Eagle Pete

"It's Me" I had been following your posts from the beginning and I did offer a few words of advise along the way. It doesn't surprise me that there are problems at home for this boy. It saddens me, but doesn't surprise me. I think a very important point to bring out with this experience is that Scouting can be beneficial to any boy. We are probably not going to solve marital issues or stop parents from making poor decisions which adversely affect their children, but we can make a difference in the life of a boy. On a personal note, my parents were separated when I was quite young. I only made it trough Webelos. After that, partly because of moving around and also because my parents could not see past their own problems and make sure their son (me) stayed in a Scout Troop, I lost contact with Scouting. But I never forgot the few years as a Cub Scout. During that time I felt I belonged somewhere - which was so important coming from a broken home. I never got involved in gangs, even later, because I learned the values from Scouting - even at Cub Scout age. I knew street gangs could not offer those values. As an adult, I have been able to be involved as a leader and try to give back some of what I got from Scouting. Even though the boy you had may leave Scouting, I believe he will never forget his experiences he had as a Cub Scout. Who knows, he may even become a great Scout Leader like you someday. Eagle Pete