E V Augustine

Council does have a Unit Safety Director on staff. I have never seen or heard any indication of a Council Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) Committee. After a cursory read of the cited document, it does present a broad risk assessment algorithm and fortunately specifies the involvement of subject matter experts. Rather than ponder the risks of a developing and instituting a camp driver training program I returned to the concerns stated in my posts. Lake Erie Council has a mandatory policy that summer camp staff tow troop trailers over owned land to the respective troop campsite. Vehicles used are owned by the adult staff performing the work. This amounts to towing 75 - 100 trailers owned by as many different entities. As the troop trailers are in the temporary custody and control of Council employees this circumstance creates a bailee liability for Council. Generally this form of insurance coverage in not included in general commercial liability policies. I would expect this matter could be addressed by a phone call to Council's insurance carrier. The annual premium might be more than a few loads of gravel.

Six years ago I proposed a solution to the concerns you expressed to be applied at the other Council owned camp. There the camp driving policy was more restrictive and the roads even less well maintained. The attached Driver's Competence Award concept was submitted to Council and ignored. I even had a Scouter with a CDL willing to teach the courses. Drivers Competence Award.pdf

There is a Scout camp in northeast Ohio that used a farm tractor towing a hay wagon to haul troop gear into their campsite. Staff does not handle troop gear. I am not sure the practice continues. I have been told it took hours to get into the campsites. At the northeast PA summer camp I attended as a Scout in the middle 1960's we walked our personal gear in over a box truss footbridge straddling a creek. Then everything you needed for the week would fit in a Yucca pack. The current "suggested Scout gear list" barely fits in a 90 liter plastic tub.

yknot, your thought would hold true if vehicles towing trailers were the only ones on the roads. In an earlier post I wrote that vehicles transporting people and their gear are allowed access to campsites on entry and departure. Adult campers may drive in and park on the road during the week if they have limited mobility documented on their medical forms. Given the typical distribution of one vehicle/trailer combination to about 10-15 passenger vehicles per troop at camp, management's justification gets pretty thin pretty quickly. From the postings so far I am encouraged that the practice of camp staff towing troop trailers into the campsite is unique to Beaumont Scout Reservation.

I agree. There is a staffer posted at each campsite to greet and assist incoming troops, then once camp is set take the guys on an orientation tour. A 10' x 20' gravel pad at each site near the road would would prevent any difficulties. But, as I wrote in an earlier post, gravel costs money. In the current system troops arrive at the campsite with personal gear then wait as much as 2.5 hours for their trailer with troop gear (tents) to appear. This year in a camp leaders Zoom call the camp director discussed the importance of working quickly to set camp. Apparently staff is inconvenienced by the delays. To me this smacks of defending a bad decision. InquisitiveScouter suggested finding another camp. That's in the works.

The goal is control and to minimize road and camp site grounds maintenance costs. Gravel costs money. Beaumont is occupied by 22 tent sites, 12 lodges, a pool and a large office and dining facility. Undeveloped areas are wetlands and facultative wetlands. The rest has poor drainage. The three main roads have a gravel surface. The tent site clusters are accessed by moderately rutted dirt roads. Camp management claims troops towing their own trailers in cause damage to roads and sites due to lack of familiarity with conditions. However, troops towing their trailers out at week's end apparently do not. Vehicles transporting people and their gear are allowed access on entry and departure. Adult campers may drive in and park on the road during the week if they have limited mobility documented on their medical forms. One of our camp leaders has two bad knees. A friend might loan me his surplus deuce and a half for the week. A compliant solution.

There is another layer. We rent a trailer from a national truck and trailer rental company. The parties to the rental agreement are well defined and documented in the contract. A third party using their vehicle to tow the rented trailer puts me in material breach of the contract and voids the purchased damage waiver and contents insurance. In the event of damage or worse I would be on the hook and then have to pursue council and the inept driver. That would be after I had to explain why I breached the contract. Oddly enough the solution is let the units bring in and park their trailers in identified spots in the campsites. I know they refuse to consider that.

Beaumont Scout Reservation has instituted a policy where summer camp adult staff using their personal vehicles tow all troop trailers from a parking lot near the public road to the respective troop's campsite. The towed distances are about a mile over gravel roads. Council's stated goal is to control trailer placement at the campsites. They move 15 to 20 trailers a week during the season. On leaving camp at week's end the troops tow their own trailers out of camp. I been told that councils would or should have some form of insurance covering damage to the trailer, its contents, and personal injury occurring while in the control of camp staff in the event of negligence. It seems an errant staffer's claim, "I did the best I could" would be a perfect defense. I am interested in hearing if other summer camps have the same policy, not about designated parking but operation of the trailer by camp staff.

I suspect the unwarranted delay in updating the Eagle Scout certificates results from the lack of diligence by all parties involved. Further, I do not believe this results from a change in presidential administration. These delays have been going on since the third quarter of 2024. I recently attended the Eagle Court of Honor for a Scout who completed the first semester of his college freshman year before receiving his certificate. In my own troop a Scout completed his Eagle Board of Review March 10, 2025. The documents were submitted to the council the next day. To date he has not even received the letter provided in an earlier post. A further complication is that the Eagle Scout insignia set is a controlled item sold at the Scout Shop only on presentation of the certificate. This week I went to the Scout Shop to purchase his insignia. I had the Scoutbook Troop Recognition Report showing his rank date and my own Eagle Scout card from 1970. My thinking was that if the purchase were denied for lack of proper documentation, I would claim the purchase as my own to replace my insignia that had been lost. Fortunately, there were no difficulties with the purchase as I was not the first to effect a solution. The Scout is now planning his Eagle Court of Honor.

The Range and Target Activities Manual released 9/3/2024 defines commercial firearm range as: A “commercial firearm range” is a supervised facility that offers a controlled environment for safe firearm practice. It will provide shooting lanes, targets, and may offer equipment rentals and training in safe firearm handling and marksmanship. Standard operating procedures are required for each firearm type used on-site. Scouting’s range and target activities must follow all of Scouting’s range and target activities policies or range standard operating procedures that are equivalently stringent, including no variation from Scouting’s limitations on firearms used. These ranges may be operated by a licensed business, a government entity or a nonprofit. BSA's definition would not exclude a private club with appropriate facilities registered with the state as a Corporation for Non-Profit in good standing. As far as the state (and for that matter the IRS) is concerned the entity is a commercial enterprise. Registration with the state triggers applicability of state rules for shooting ranges addressing the panoply of operational and safety concerns. Well organized private clubs typically have standard operating procedures and safety plans going beyond regulatory minimums. I suspect BSA's reliance on the term "commercial firearm range" is intended to exclude a bunch of guys with access to a farm field or some woods up the hollow.

Unfortunately my troop has had to function on the basis of who has the assets in possession. The troop was chartered by a Catholic church for 71 years. The diocese closed the church as part of a consolidation program. A week or so before the official closing date the gear was relocated to a storage facility and the funds held in the name of the Troop remained. We were subsequently chartered by a parochial school formed in the consolidation. Now four years later the school trustees have decided we need to move before January 1, 2014. (Insert new thread here.) Its deja vu all over again. Fortunately the troop has access to a fair number of trucks, strong backs and a stronger sense of self-preservation.

A request for an extension to complete Eagle requirements after age 18 mst be based on compelling reasons beyond the control of the Scout. Current advancement guidance finally memeorializes that the Scout is responsible for the information in the Handbook and presumably can read a calendar. The common sense concept expressed in multiple instances in the guidance cuts both ways. In 8 years as district advancement chair the vast majority of discussions I have had on this point boil down to the Scout's failure to choose working on things that will lead to making Eagle rank.

You could look at Dolly Sods Wilderness Area near Laneville, WV. The National Forest Service and US Army Corps of Engineers have good information and mapping on their web sites. Dolly Sods is a plateau of about 50 square miles at about 4,000 feet elevation. Topographic relief is almost 800 feet in the southern valleys; 400 ft in the north. The trails are rocky. The vegetation is sub-Alpine with heather covered valleys in the north and bogs near the streams. Tree cover tends to be Spruce with dense canopy only in the valleys. A late October trip could very well experience below freezing daytime temperatures and snow brought in by 30 mph winds. All in all it is a great trip. Good luck. Eric Augustine, SM Troop 287 Lakewood, OH

Gentlemen, Before we can be accused of male centric responses; ie. taking care of one of our own, consider the consequences of "ta-ta" tapping reported to the police. The Scout Oath and Law have little currency in an arraignment hearing. Given that a Scout is thrifty, I have no funds accrued for BSA related legal defense. Consequently I would take all prudent action to limit my personal legal exposure. Given that its about $40k to the court house steps, as a volunteer adult leader why do I need to care if the perpetrator makes next rank or if he has a positive Scouting experience should I become a named defendant? You may wax prosaic about the Scout Oath and Law and national policy here, but that will not stand as defense in many legal jurisdictions.

Scouters, Having served as District Training Chair during program years 2001 - 2004 I can assure you that council training record keeping has been abysmal. The SE authorized zero staff hours to record unit leader training credits. I had three Wood Badge beads before I was shown as trained on my unit roster. The current emphasis is Youth Protection Training necessary for renewal/recharter. All to be completed and recorded electronically through the national web portal. Absent electronic documentation the non-compliant individual is removed from the roster. Since the pilot top leader training program has been initiated it is possible to generate a "not trained leader" report through ScoutNet. The report shows training completed for the individual's current leadership position completed electronically. Seat in the chair training records are left to the vagaries of the local council. The next trick coming in 2012 is that top unit leaders have completed position specific training. (For you Ask Andy fans read as SM, CC and COR.) I doubt much attention will be paid to other than required training records. It is surprising what an $18.5 million judgment will do. There are unsubstantiated rumors that G2SS will soon require patrol outings to have two deep leadership and a tour permit. While the rumored action appears to be a near term solution to LDS Scout unit patrols setting the woods on fire it seems a cheap fix and limiting factor to the rest. Best advice is to narrowly construe current published national guidance and document everything else. Eric Augustine