DugNevius

wait, the boy was expelled by the troop because a parent had said he talked about drugs?

"Somehow the "numbers" aren't even "boys" anymore"

Ive heard this before. Rumors in our town is that our council is seeking to re open a troop that had died off about ten years ago. Our town alone has 3 troops, one has about 40 members, ours has 35 and the third has about 20. The idea that our town can sustain 4 troops seems very far fetched, and it will have to take adult leaders from within the 3 troops and their sons to even get one going, thinning the existing troops. The explaination given was that council is seeking to appease national's desire for growth by using a new troop as evidence of expansion even though the number of scouts remains the same and the other troops are watered down. I dont know how legit this all is but adults have been approached to scout interest in a troop leadership.

Im not sure how legit this whole thing is butI dont have too much to say about my council in a positive light. Selling off scout camps, having piss poor Klondikes and camperees and totally squandering national money for Philmont crews, not to mention my issues with our FOS.

Hikeaholic- I was at Philmont at the time but in speaking to the boys who did the Zion Trip (They also hit up the grand canyon) they seemed to really have a lot of fun.

Our troop likes to hike the AT in Maine, and the New England stretch of the AT offers some real good hiking, but it might be a haul from Cali.

I like your troops style. We had a trip out to Zion last summer for the younger guys that couldnt go to philmont.

Where are yu located? How far is too far?

I totally agree Trev. Patrol cooking builds teamwork, teaches responsability and leadership and adds valueble experince, all which a dinning hall can not offer close to the same level. Patrol cooking always and forever!

female mosquitos are the ones that bite but having spent many summers in upstate Maine i can testify, they DO make a sound.

in 1998 our troop did treks 30 and 32, and we did the same treks in 2005. They were super strenuous in the north country, climbing Harts peak, Wilson Mesa, Baldy and the tooth of time (32) and Baldy, Phillips, Black and The Tooth (30)

The major factor to picking our treks was Mt Baldy, we couldnt imagine going out to Philmont and not hiking it. Secondly was the tooth and we wanted to finish our treks with the victory hike IN to camp rather then sitting by the road to wait for a bus. Third was we wanted treks that were challanging enough for us.

I disagree with Anarchist about Patrol trips. In our troop we encourage the patrols to take a patrol trip twice a year. It is up to the PL to set it up, date, adults, trasportation as well as the trip program. It adds a chance for them to practice their leadership and responsability and promotes patrol identity as well as allowing even more time for the younger boys to work on advancement requirments. I have never sensed any decline in troop identity from having patrol camping trips.

On top of all that was already said, build a troop identity. Yu may be already competing with other troops as well as other programs like youth groups and sports. What is yur troop known for? Do yu do a lot of high adventure trips? Do yu have annual activities (Our troop has a Troop Olympics each April where the scouts comepete as individuals as well as patrols) do yu play sports as a troop? Do yu have your own meeting place where yu can display past achievements, history of Eagles photographs and things from places yu have been? Make them want to be a part of something unique and part of a heritage and that will bill bonding that new guys will want to be a part of.

FS- I might agree with yu had i not seen and experienced what well led boys are capable of.

As for the suit and Tie- I actually would not send a boy home, but it would raise a few questions.

OGE- The literature, as posted by LongHaul clearly states that Scouts are to be in proper uniform, but werent yu arguing that this is not needed? Come on, baby, sing it with me: "I WANNA ROCK!"

Fair enough, FS.

We have established that there are unfortunatly many cases where Adult leaders dont conduct fair or proper BOR's which may include "harrassing" the scouts.

As well we often read posts about the marvel that the scouting program do to the maturity and leadership of youth, praises of the PLC and patrol method that display just exactly what our scouts are capable of.

Do yu see the contriction that this implies when one says that adults are more capable then the youth we are building to be future leaders of their generation that are supposivly living by the scout oath and law?

Why then, would scouts of the ages of 15-18 not be capable of asking the same questions to canidates looking to advance through the lower ranks (Not retesting but To make sure the work has been learned and completed, to check to see what kind of experience the boy is having in his patrol and troop and to encourage the Scout to advance to the next rank.) despite the fact that these boys have been learning for 4 years or more to live by the scout Oath and Law and should have as much interest in the scouting futures of the boys they teach, lead and befriend?

This contridiction leads one to believe that while some have faith in The Patrol Method and the idea of "boy led", that faith has strong limitations. The possibility is that our "future potential Eagles" are no better or worse then adults at many things including what needs to be done on a BOR.

We have had this debate before.

OGE- gee, must we reopen that old debate or should we stay on topic?

I agree. While "Scouting is Advancing" scouts need to get as much from scouts as possible and having a "Merit Badge" factory to churn out eagles is also limited in the over all picture. The key is to keep boys focused on the path to eagle while exposing them to as many different things that they normally would not be exposed to.

OGE- The youth always goes before a panel of 3 or more all in full uniform.

The Crazy Creek Chair. Use as a chair sitting around the campsite, unclip and lay flat to sleep on at night. Smaller and lighter then any sleeping pad and better for your butt and back then a log.

The Crazy Creek Chair. Use as a chair sitting around the campsite, unclip and lay flat to sleep on at night. Smaller and lighter then any sleeping pad and better for your butt and back then a log.

Interesting. Maybe the Dug Nevius form of scouting isnt as "Twisted" as previously thought. haha.

Very true, MaScout. As a youth i can remember having strange scout leaders ramble and scold us for some minor infractions and generally those types just get chalked up as nuts. Its how its said. If a troop WAS cutting switchbacks at Philmont it would be as important to talk to the Crew Advisor privately rather then come running down the hill ranting like a crazed mountain man.

My point is, where does the "policing" end? While backpacking spacing between hikers is important to avoid the domino effect in dace a hiker trips, injuring others. In Philmont many crews did not space out but i didnt take on the role of hiker avenger and correct every crew that i thought could do things better. I made sure my boys were doing things correctly.

In another thread OldGreyEagle and i debate whether or not BOR's should be conducted in full uniform. Some troops dont require uniforms at all under any circumstances. Im not going to go around to the troops and lecture to their Scoutmasters and PLC that they need to. If they so choose then thats their decision.

I guess its all about levels. I see a scout running around with an axe playing Conan the barbarian then i say something right away. If i see scouts wearing their rank badges on their sleeves i might ask the SM why while sitting around the waterfront catching rays but im not going to demand they remove the patch. At the same time i might talk to my boys and have them have pride in the knowledge that they are doing things right.

if you ask my ex it was way too long. She couldnt handle me going to philmont for two weeks, not to mention all the training i led the troop in for a year. The relationship is over but i continue in scouting.

For those that feel it is ok for a scouter from one unit correcting scouts or adults from another unit on their uniform, i must ask: How is this done? What else shall outside scouters correct besides uniforms? At Philmont, should i correct crews that i feel dont meet my standards of backpacking? At summer camp can i repremand scouts that dont appear in Class A uniforms at a flag ceremony? If i hear of another troop running a weak eagle project, would it be ok for me to contact their CC and SM and tell them how i feel?

I dunno, but the idea of Uniform Police is sort of like people going around and yelling at parents because their kids watch rated R movies and you dont let yur kids watch anything over PG.

haha thanks OGE.

but this will raise the discussion of why have uniforms at all?

Enough digression. BOR success rates should be near 100% for the very reasons brought up. The SM, advancement chair and others should not present a scout to a BOR if he is not ready to pass it. If he fails he wasnt ready and the SM wasnt doing his job at the SM conference.

One way to avoid this: Annually make troop t shirts. Have the kids come up with the design and make it an every year thing. Our troop has been doing this since 1992 and now i have a whole dresser drawer full of them, so when it comes to needing t shirts for camping its a no brainer which go into the pack, the kids and families look forward to it as well.

Ed, i am going to disagree. Wearing the uniform is about pride, wearing the uniform when appropriate is an example of scout spirit. A scout that wears a dirty, disheveled uniform is not showing scout spirit as much as a scout that shows up to a BOR, eagle COH or other ceremonies. Scouts dont have to wear their uniform all the time, such as camping trips, sports and games and that sort but a BOR is a time where all those participating, members of the BOR and the scout should and must be in uniform. I cant imagine an eagle cannidate ever passing an Eagle BOR without being in full class A, and so, all BORs preceeding it should be conducted in the same manner. In our troop, if a cannidate were to appear at his BOR not in full uniform, or late, he would be sent right home and have to rescheduale his BOR.

Well, Ed, one can easily make the point that Scout spirit is a requirment and to not be in full uniform during a BOR is lacking in scout spirit.