dScouter15

If we find ourselves in a situation where a scouts life is on the line, I hope that we'd all use the most of our available resources, training and common sense to do our best to keep that scout alive. However, WildernessStudent asked whether or not persons with standard first aid or first responder training should be allowed to carry Epi in a first aid kit, and administer it to persons without a prescription. I do not believe that this should be allowed, as a first responder lacks the necessary amount of education to adequately assess and treat a patient using a drug like epinephrine.

Gern - I think that because many people carry easy-to-use EpiPens, lay people get the impression that Epi is a relatively "easy" drug, like Tylenol or Aspirin, that can just be given to someone who we think might need it. But, without having the education to even know what Epi does, how would you decide when to give it? A bunch of drugs could potentially stop someone from dieing. Atropine, Sodium Bicarbonate, Lidocaine, Dopamine, D50, Glucagon, Narcan, Norepinephrine and Lasix (just to name a few off the top of my head) are common drugs that could save someone's life. Do you think that a

GernBlaster - If you ask me, if you are "holding the very technology that just might save their life" - you should have the education necessary to know when, where and how to use it. If you don't have that education, you shouldn't be have that "technology" in your possession. There are a lot of types of medical equipment, and a lot of medications that "just might save a life." However, before using any of them, you need to know when, where, why and how they are used. First aid and first responder training teaches how to use a number of pieces of equipment, and a handful of medications, to

Bob - you're absolutely right on the good samaratain law - except that I don't think an esophageal airway is what you think it is. But, that kind of proves my point further - a little knowledge can be very dangerous. My primary concern is not necessarily the (completely valid) legal aspects that Bob and others pointed out - its not just about being legally allowed to "store and disburse pharmaceuticals", not about being trained to follow protocols. My concern is that a person with the very limited training provided by FR training presumes to administer dangerous medications to persons

As a paramedic, I'll throw my two cents in, for whatever its worth, to clear up some apparent misconceptions: A First Responder or WFR is not trained on the protocols for administering Epi, or any other drug for that matter (with the possible exception of oxygen). Under some protocols a FR may assist a patient showing signs of anaphylaxis in administering the patient's own Epinephrine Auto Injector. FRs are not qualified to determine a correct dose of epi, draw it up into a syringe, etc. Nor are they qualified to administer benadryl, terbutaline, solu-medrol, albuterol, or any other dr

Actually, I'd kind of like to have the last word - watching my position on BW's scoreboard...

Well, I'm a paramedic, so I guess you could say I go looking for trouble ;-). But, one thing I've learned in my career in EMS is that as soon as you start thinking you won't need something - some training, some piece of equipment - you'll almost immediately have a situation in which that training or equipment would have been invaluable. So, how often will you run into a "serious" situation - I have no idea. Depends a lot of the type of activities you participate in, and the training and preparation you put in to them. But, what are you going to do if you do find yourself in a "serious"

Ed - What reason do you have to ask the scout who he will vote for? You say that the question is "directly related to [...] citizenship," but what aspect of the scout's citizenship are you looking to evaluate? How can this question be used to evaluate a scout's citizenship better than other questions, involving the HOW or WHY aspects of voting?

I just think that there's better questions that could have been asked to assess citizenship. Personally, if I wanted to ask a question along this line, I would ask something to the effect of "How are you deciding who you will vote for in the next election?" This way, the scout could explain his values, his though processes, critical thinking, etc - i.e., the very things that Scouting tries to develop. Also, the scout will not feel compelled to reveal information he might prefer to keep to himself, and the board could have a discussion that focuses more on values, morals and citizenship than

One every campout, someone will forget something important. That same item can always be replaced by an appropriate combination of wooden poles, twine, garbage bags and/or duct tape, and a little ingenuity. If the scoutmaster picks the date for the campout, it will rain. If you're planning on doing swimming or boating, it will be freezing. If you let the adults read the map, you will get horribly, horribly lost. It can actually rain, non-stop, for 72 hours. Bob White really likes training. The parts of the training about knowing your resources, and knowing yo

I would say that the best thing you can do is allow your youth leadership to see an example of an effective boy-led scout troop in action. If your council has an NYLT program coming up this summer, that would be an excellent opportunity for your SPL and other leaders to see first-hand how a boy-led troop works. Another idea - is there another troop in your area that is boy-led? See if you can identify such a troop, that shows good youth leadership and a healthy program. If you're friendly with the SM, see if they'll allow some of your youth leadership to attend a couple of their troop

Our troop runs a very successful event each year at our town's annual fair/carnival shindig: a dunk tank. We find this works well, as its not a fundraiser that the scouts need to put a lot of "work" into. The PLC and adults handle reserving a spot for a booth at the fair (free), and renting a dunk tank ($200-$300). We divide up the time the fair is open into equal-length shifts, and assign each patrol to a shift. For its shift, the patrol's members sit as "victims" in the tank, and handle collecting money, passing out balls, and trying to entice fairgoers to pay for a chance at the dunk ta

fgoodwin - I hear what you're saying, and your point is well taken. A very wise Scouter once instilled in me that a fundamental of enabling youth leadership is to provide opportunities for "guided discoveries." That is, youth leadership should be given every opportunity to make decisions, implement and execute the Scouting program. However, this should all be occurring under the guidance of trained adult leadership. Obviously, the youth leadership will be developing and conducting the majority of this training. However, as an adult leader, it is my obligation to ensure that certain lessons

I'll throw my two cents in: I think the BSA needs to more clearly specify how they define "bullying". A lot of the conversation on this thread, up to this time, has involved how there are many definitions for bullying. I think that if they provided a clear, precise definition of the type of behavior they are trying to address, units will have an easy time developing programming to enable scouts to complete the requirement. The cynic in me thinks that these requirements are a convenient way for the BSA to be able to say, "We're taking an aggressive stance against bullying!" Regardl

As I see it, we all need to do our best to be courteous. I personally feel that those familiar with BSA policies have a responsibility to, in the course of our discussions online, point of where a scouter may have deviated from these policies. That said, can we all avoid making snotty comments like, "are you sure you've been trained?", "you're not obedient to the BSA!" and so on? Think about it: if you had trained a scout in your unit to perform some function, and you observe that he's not performing it exactly to the specifications you've set, are you going to question his obedience? Or,

Bob - seems like a straw man argument you created here, but OK, I think you're right. Now what?

Thanks everyone for the advice. To clear up a few issues - Firstly, Bob, I am a "licensed medical professional," and am very well aware of the actions my license permits, and those which it does not. However, if a physicians provides me with a protocol, or standing order allowing me to manage prescription or OTC meds, I may act in accordance with that protocol (whether a doc would actually do this is another story). What happens is, provided I act correctly, in accordance with the protocol, the doc takes responsibility for that action. I've heard of this type of situation occurri

I absolutely agree with you that the key is that we do our best dScouter15. So let me ask you this. Is a leader who chooses to not attend training "doing his or her best"? Is a leader who takes training and knowingly doesn't follow the Methods or use the program as taught "Doing their best"? Is a trainer who chooses not to follo0w the syllabus even though they are told to.... "Doing his or her best". Bob - Its been a long day, and I'm getting a little confused here. To begin with, I can't determine whether a leader is doing his or her best based on his or her compliance wi

Bob - I don't really understand what, exactly, you want to know, or why you want to know it, but I'll contribute my theory anyway - You just can't do it. You can't coordinate the training of over 60,000 volunteers of various ages, skill levels, ability, reasons for being involved in scouting, access to technology, access to facilities, family situations, other commitments, learning disabilities, egos, interest, etc - so that each one of the 60,000 people receives the same information, presented correctly, in such a way that they can internalize and remember it. Even if you could do

The ceremonies in my troop also have "a little bit of everything." Generally, the ceremony starts with welcoming speeches, a prayer, and a short ceremony about the scout law and oath, and then the eagle charge. This portion tends to be serious, but we try to maintain a "warm" personal feeling. Then, the new Eagle Scout generally gives a brief thank-you speech. Then, our current SM has a tradition where he'll give a brief speech. As he says, "I'm the Scoutmaster, I get the last word." (He joking when he says that, by the way - his wife gets the last word!) Anyway, the SM will give th

I've been asked to serve as the health and safety officer for a council-wide week-long youth training event this summer. I have experience working as a paramedic in the EMS industry, but never volunteering in this kind of capacity in the BSA. I understand my job to basically cover three general categories: 1) Work with the staff to ensure that the program itself is carried out with health and safety in mind. Preventing illness/injury is preferable to treating illness and injury. 2) Ensure that scouts are taking their prescribed medication appropriately. 3) Be available 24/7 t

So, who's going to enforce all this? Professionals? Commissioners? Off duty law enforcement moonlighting as the Patch Police? And, how will it be enforced? Take the unit that allow scouts to wear blue jeans instead of Scout pants/shorts? Will they be fined? Have their charter revoked? Have their transgressions printed for all to see in the councils bimonthly newsletter? I know my council has intervened in the affairs of the units when safety issues are raised, or if someone appeals advancement decisions. I'm thinking that if the council was more aggressive in "enforcing" unif

As an EMT myself, I have to say that first aid training can be the easiest, most flexible, and most fun training that can be conducted in a scouting setting. I think that this comes from the fact that most of the first aid we teach isn't that "hard", theoretically or practically. And, its easy to tailor the training to different age groups and experience levels - from teaching tiger cubs how to wash a cut and put on a bandaid, call an adult, or call 911, to teaching older scouts and adult leaders CPR, and advanced stabilization and treatment techniques - and everything in between. One t

My troop runs a leadership training/team building weekend about every six months. We usually do it as a cabin campout, and integrate parts of the current Troop Leader Training material, the older JLT material, and some of the troop's unique, traditional training conducted by the SM, SPL and other older scouts. On Friday night, we like to show a movie with a message pertinent to leadership and team building. Following the movie, the SPL and JASM(s) lead the group in an informal discussion about the themes in the movie, and how they can relate to our troop. I'm wondering if anyone can su

I''m not really a fan of a cell phone ban (that sounded catchy - I could write a rap song!). It seems like a lot of the arguments for banning cell phone are something along the lines of a few adult leaders who personally don''t care for that mode of communication, and see fit to prevent others from using it. A couple of reasons I don''t mind allowing scouts to have cell phones: 1) Its a respect thing. There are hundreds of possible ways a scout can act disrespectfully, and Scouting is a great way to help a scout discover how to act courteously and respectfully. For instance, a sco