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New Brotherhood Ceremony

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  • #16
    Funny, I just went through that section again - if the dude had a fire that big, doubtful his fingers would be all that cold; probably melt all the snow within a ten foot radius! Not to mention, no Indian would ever make a fire that big; that's a "white man's" thing - you would not waste the wood and you would not make a fire that could potentially be seen by an adversary (considering he is kind of on the border of two territories). Being that close to the "border", the last thing you'd probably want to burn is your only weapon (and hunting tool).

    To be fair though, it could have actually been a small fire - in a world with no electricity, even a small fire would be spotted quite a distance away in the dark. If I remember my science correctly, in pitch dark, a human can detect the light of a single candle something like a mile away.

    The other poetic license too is that Meukwa would have spoken Mohawk and Uncas Lenape - the two languages are in no way mutually intelligible. Since both were son's of chiefs, it's possible that they would have some familiarity with surrounding languages, but not enough to carry on the conversation they have.

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    • #17
      Not a fan of the change from a "band together to fight the bad guys that threaten us" to a "partner with the not-so-bad guys cause they really are just like us" imagery. Seems like it got nerfed, PC'ed and molded into a different tale. Just my 2 cents.

      The most memorable part of the Brotherhood ceremony from my personal experience (in 1983) was the 'burden' and that, thankfully, remains, with some changes. Can't give more details in the open, but that portion seemed to crystallize the three principals (W, W & W) for me in one scene.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MikeS View Post
        The Gong - you could bring back another Principal/helper, but it is at times a logistical nightmare to try and get just the four together at one time for even a scheduled Ceremony.....to add one more to the list...
        Well what I mean is that instead of calling the new person in the story his new name you could just pick an old one.

        Although I would not have gone with the story route at all, Brotherhood is a continuation of the Ordeal, a commitment to the Order. Why tell a story about brotherhood when you goal during the ceremony is to test/have the candidates prove themselves as embodiment's of the W.W.W. For this story to work you have to be very familiar with the Legend and be able to follow a new offshoot of it. How many Vigil members can even give the main parts of the Legend???? Let alone Brotherhood Candidates.

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        • #19
          Yeah, you could do that rather than come up with a new name.

          I agree - in order to get the symbolism, one has to be VERY familiar with the Legend as well as the symbolism of the Pre-Ordeal and Ordeal Ceremonies. May not be a huge issue for Ceremonialists, but the average Arrowman, I fear, isn't going to have a clue.

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          • #20
            Along with Miranthis's comment - I don't get why a whole "issue" seems to have developed about the knife in this ceremony! What is up with that??? We've been using a dull knife and fake blood for years and years - why now is it such a huge deal? Too many complaints (if so, about what?)?

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            • #21
              As far as the knife test goes I have seen someone faint because of the fake blood however if you are clear in the lines leading up to it and you continually explain that nothing bad will happen to the candidates during the brotherhood hike then there shouldn't be a problem.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by miranthis View Post

                The most memorable part of the Brotherhood ceremony from my personal experience (in 1983) was the 'burden'.
                In All Honesty I don't Remember anything About the Brotherhood Ceremony Except The Burden...even though I served all 4 Roles...I guess after 31 Years my Mind is Slipping....I did Brotherhood in 1983 Also.

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                • #23
                  I'm with Mike S here.# 19 I did the ceremony 5 or 6 times and coached it 25-30 times so I "get" the symbolism. BUT I fear that none, or very very few, of the brotherhood candidates will

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                  • #24
                    You could, I suppose, incorporate it into a meeting and have the B-hoods break off and do an overview of the symbolism in the ceremonies or as a "class" topic for a Conclave or Lodge Conference, but no guaranty there that all B-hoods would attend.

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                    • #25
                      I feel that it is for those who coach, preform, and live for the ceremonies but aren't the ceremonies for all members and should be easily understood for all members?
                      The beauty of our ceremonies is in their simplicity but also in the way that they can move you and you can understand them, but there are also some mystery's that keep us in debate. Why do we talk about Shakespeare to this day? Because he wrote good stories that can be grasped by everyone.

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                      • #26
                        Yes - they should be easily understood by everyone but I don't believe this one will be. There are quite a number of nuances and parts that allude to Ordeal and Pre-Ordeal Ceremonies, but I think they will be lost on the average Arrowman.

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                        • #27
                          There's got to be more people out there who have seen the new B-hood Ceremony - what do you think about it??!! Curious to get more opinions/thoughts.

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                          • #28
                            I talked with my nephew (a lodge chief in New York)a few days ago he said they were shown a preview of the new Ceremony a few months ago at a conclave. The response was 10% thumbs up,10% don't know, and 80% thumbs down.
                            That does not fill me with optimism

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                            • #29

                              Originally posted by Oldscout448 View Post
                              I talked with my nephew (a lodge chief in New York)a few days ago he said they were shown a preview of the new Ceremony a few months ago at a conclave. The response was 10% thumbs up,10% don't know, and 80% thumbs down.
                              That does not fill me with optimism
                              I saw the preview at my section's conclave last October. It was well received. I think most who saw it thought it would be a good update. One nice thing is the ceremony is now much more evenly distributed across the four principles.

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                              • #30
                                Boy, that seems to be the overall feeling - I'm finding that very few people are 100% on board with it. I do like that the lines are more evenly distributed between the four Principals and I do appreciate and "get" the symbolism interwoven in the ceremony (but I'm pretty sure it will go right over the heads of about 90% of all Candidates). I think people were expecting and wanting a change, just not sure this was it. Would have been nice if the revision would have been more open to input - i.e. make it open to the general "OA public", if you will. Have a sort of 'contest' where people who are honestly serious about offering a revised ceremony would be able to submit a draft, from those drafts, maybe ten are chosen and those ten write and submit a final ceremony and one is chosen (or maybe pieces/parts of two or more are combined) for the official revised ceremony. I don't think that's the way it was done though. I suspect one designated writer and some tweaking of that version and it was a done deal, take it or leave it. Not to sound like an anarchist or stir up the pot, but I have to seriously wonder if some Lodges will simply opt not to do the new one (?).

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