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Comparison of top executive salaries at BSA, GSUSA, AHG, and a rant....

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  • Comparison of top executive salaries at BSA, GSUSA, AHG, and a rant....

    After reading a few snarky comments about American Heritage Girls, where I am a local volunteer leader, I took a look at the salaries reported on Guidestar.org. With a free account, you can see the IRS 990 forms of any nonprofit organization for the last three years. I like knowing where my money is going.

    Anyway, here are the numbers for 2011 except where noted, the most recent year available online for most of these groups:

    American Heritage Girls, national office:
    Top Executive salary (Patti Garibay): $70,651.00

    Boy Scouts of America, national office:
    Top Executive salary (Robert Mazzuca): $987,412.00

    Atlanta Area Council of the BSA:
    Top Executive salary (Tracy Techau): $364,000 (2012)

    Girl Scouts of America, national office:
    Top Executive salary (Anna Maria Chavez, took office in November): $177,652
    Top Executive salary (Kathy Cloninger, left in November) $887,209

    As a former leader and current parent in the Cub Scouts, I find the 360 paid employees at the Atlanta Area Council totally useless. Dead-wood.

    I call to ask questions, and get no response and no help. Zero. Even last year when I was pack treasurer and found I'd been stuck holding the bag for seven years of unfiled and unpaid taxes by the pack AND the CO. Begged for help for months. Zip. Crickets. Oh wait, they told me a couple of times to shut up and go away, I guess that counts as communication.

    After I went out and got advice from a CPA on my own time and did what my properly educated and licensed tax advisor told me to do, THEN the Council calls my house to yell at me because they wanted me to just sweep it under the rug. So much for "a Scout is honest".

    Our Pinewood Derby was the weekend. We had technical difficulties with the track and computer that left the leadership scrambling for over 90 minutes with a roomful of agitated kids and younger siblings. Not fun for anyone. Parents are pitching in everywhere to fix the track, get the computer working, entertain the kids.

    And the paid Scout Executive from the Council sent to observe did....squat. He just stood there and smirked. The only paid guy in the room did absolutely nothing. Because it's "all about the kids", right? I guarantee we will see much more energy from him at the Blue & Gold next month when he comes back to solicit for the Friends of Scouting drive. I will not be giving him a dime.

    Oh, and it's always fun to visit the ironically named "Volunteer Support Center". Tax records show it cost over $40 million. It's huge. Here's a pic of our BSA Taj Mahal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:At...cil_office.jpg Do we really need a 4 story foyer and granite on every horizontal and vertical surface, inside and out, in order to lead a program "for the boys"?

    American Heritage Girls, on the other hand, makes do with only 36 paid employees in their (only) national office. When I call with a question, I actually get an answer! One tenth of the employees of our Atlanta BSA in the NATIONAL AHG office, and they do a better job. On much lower pay.

    My son's Scout uniform cost over $100, plus a new book every year. My daughter's AHG uniform and book? $42. I love AHG. A girl gets one book when she starts, and uses it the entire time until she's in high school. Brilliant!

    So, when we start throwing around words like "hypocrites" at AHG and Trail Life (which is too new to have filed a 990 yet), let's look at the folks who are getting the most done for the least compensation.

    GA Mom

  • #2
    You don't like the BSA. We know. Put your son in TrailLife, get over it and let it go.

    Comment


    • duckfoot
      duckfoot commented
      Editing a comment
      I wasn't trying to be mean. Just weary of her diatribes and trying to give some advice. Why would you subject yourself to the organization that time and time again gives you fits?

    • EagleScout441
      EagleScout441 commented
      Editing a comment
      Because it's "for the boys"?

    • GeorgiaMom
      GeorgiaMom commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks, Qwazse. I don't think Patti Garibay's relatively low salary has anything to do with being a woman. The GSUSA chief exec makes even more than the BSA chief exec, and she's a woman.

      Bloomberg's list of the highest paid female executives include companies like Hewlett-Packar, Yahoo, Intel, PepsiCo, etc. I think the glass ceiling is on its way out.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2...s-.html#slide7

      Maybe Patti Garibay chooses to take a reasonable salary and make AHG all about helping girls be the best women they can be.

      I find the bureaucracy at GSUSA and BSA bloated, way overpaid, and doing a terrible job of serving the children and parent volunteers. They serve themselves first, often at the expense of the families in the program. I don't see any gender bias here. Both execs are greedy.

      Anna Maria Chavez even came out supporting the little Girl Scout selling cookies in front of a marijuana dispensary. The official GSUSA position on this is that as long as it's a "legitimate business" they "won't tell Girl Scouts where to sell their cookies".

      Who in their right mind thinks that's an appropriate place to put a kid? Alcohol is legal too, and I have no problem with responsible drinking, but I sure wouldn't put my little daughter out in front of the local liquor store fundraising for AHG.

      http://mashable.com/2014/02/20/girl-...ies-marijuana/

      Nor would AHG approve if I did, I believe. We church ladies are just not "cool", I guess.

      GA Mom

  • #3
    Ya she is a Paranoid tea party member too......there is danger around every corner and everyone is out to get ME..........

    Have you seen the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous. a comedy about a beauty contest in a small minnesota town..... the AHG remind me of the seen in the Talent contest where one of the contestant does a song and dance number with Jesus being crucified on the cross........ It is completely absurd.

    We are White, WE Love Jesus Christ the only True God and the savior of humanity, We are Rich and the rest of you who don't believe in him, cough cough the mud races, are going to burn in hell......don't forget the sun screen.


    Big news????? Nope.

    I got news for you...If the AHG could afford a million dollar salary old Patti would be getting it too.......

    Humans are greedy and cheating by nature......


    As a member of one of the mud races........You can take the AHG and hmmmmmmm, use your imagination.

    Comment


    • Sentinel947
      Sentinel947 commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm amazed I got to read this before seeing a flag report on it......

      Seriously Basementdweller, I know you don't like AHG. I don't like them either. I grew up in the town they started in. They aren't bad people. Any American Heritage Girl Parent I've met have been nice people.

      Where did Georgia Mom imply that non Whites are inferior? If anybody on this forum wrote that kind of blatant racism, I'd be happy to use a ban-hammer. I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure where you keep pulling that race card from.

      I get it, you don't like AHG, GeorgiaMom, white people, wealthy people, some Christians, and who knows who else, but that doesn't mean you have to post it out on the forum.

  • #4
    And I would like to add that I hope everyone has a REALLY nice day.

    Comment


    • duckfoot
      duckfoot commented
      Editing a comment
      Even Mr. Scrooge...

  • #5
    GAmom,

    Do you have a link for finding BSA salaries? I'm curious.

    Comment


    • #6
      Mazzuca is retired.

      Second, without a link, I really don't buy the salaries for the Atlanta area scout exec. This link shows the typical salary of a scout exec in the $40k range.

      http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Boy-...ries-E7807.htm

      Comment


      • GeorgiaMom
        GeorgiaMom commented
        Editing a comment
        The figures I quotes are from each organization's 990 form archived at www.guidestar.org.

        With a free account, you can see the IRS filings and other info on any registered nonprofit. I check here when I want to make sure my donation dollars are being well spent.

        I get that Mazzuca is retired. He was the exec when the most recent info available was posted. I doubt the new exec is paid any less handsomely.

        Whether or not you find the numbers reasonable, they are the actual salaries taken from each groups' 990 filings with the IRS. Look under "Compensation of Officers".

        Ga Mom

    • #7
      If you read thru the respective 990 forms you might have gleaned some hints as to why the head of the AGH was paid so much less -

      Revenue (income) - BSA $218,296,402 - GSUSA $105,217,626 - AHG $1,481,117

      Land/buildings/equipment (before depreciation) - BSA $188,990,946 - GSUSA $78,966,745 - AHG $20,197

      Total Assets - BSA $1,023,031,961 - GSUSA $186,228,734 - AHG $1,193,165

      Youth Served 2012 - BSA 3,250,663 - GSUSA 2,291,425 - AHG 26,268

      So to pat AHG on the back, and extol them for "making do", and being more fiscally responsible, is like comparing the local burger chain to McDonalds. There is just NO real comparison.

      For a good portion of it's life AHG was piggybacking on BSA for many of it's needs, like training, and camps.

      As for complaining that your District Executive (or whomever it actually was) did nothing to help when your PWD went belly-up, that is just down right silly.

      The track, and the computer, do not belong to the DE, or the council. They belong to the Charter Organization, and the Pack.

      The DE was not putting on the program. The Pack was.

      Why would you think that the council person would know anything at all about YOUR PWD track, and computer?

      It sounds like you had plenty of help, and expertise on your own. You did not need another inexperienced helper putting in their unknowledgeable 2 cents. Besides, if the council person had accidently made things worse because of his lack of knowledge, YOU would have been the FIRST to jump up, and down, on him for "ruining" YOUR Pinewood Derby! Personally, I don't blame him for not wanting to touch Pack equipment.

      Comment


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice thanks for doing the leg work nut

      • Sentinel947
        Sentinel947 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for doing the number crunching ScoutNut

    • #8
      Charity Navigator also lists salaries as reported on Form 990. The BSA Atlanta Council can be found here:
      http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde...ary&orgid=5513

      and it reports a salary (not sure what year) of $313,794 for Tracy Techau.

      The 2011 Form 990 can be found here (officer compensation on p. 28):
      http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990...201112_990.pdf

      Comment


      • perdidochas
        perdidochas commented
        Editing a comment
        So, on an $11 million budget, Atlanta Scout council pays it's exec $300K. On a $1.4 million budget, AHG pays it's exec $70 k. AHG is paying a higher percentage of it's income.

      • Peregrinator
        Peregrinator commented
        Editing a comment
        That's certainly true. Personally I think an all-volunteer model (which is what Baden-Powell wanted) is best.

        Although one could also point out that AHG serves over 25K youth on a $1.4 million budget while the Atlanta Council needs $11 million to serve approximately 30K youth. There's something to be said for that kind of frugality. Of course AHG doesn't own camps and whatnot and isn't responsible for developing them.

    • #9
      Still, most of us would agree that BSA's very top people are a bit overpaid, even on the council levels. When the top council exec makes anywhere from $150k to $350K, depending on its size, while most of the lower execs make average $50K-$70K, and the office workers are mostly minimum wage or slightly higher, they might consider some adjustments. With the retirement and health benefits in BSA, the top salaries are really high. To their credit, one of the reasons many lower level employees stay is because they too have access to better than average benefits. I live in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country, but most families still can live comfortably, if they watch their budgets, making $75K or more. Trouble is, that too many people think they should be able to live better than they need to. Guess growing up as the kid of depression parents and grandparents, I somehow learned that what you need and what you want are not the same things.

      Point is that National and local councils could function better with some salary adjustments, putting more into the program and less into professional personnel. Possibly National could take a bit off the top people's salaries to pass down to ease the stress on the lower level execs in council, especially ones that have high living costs and cannot hold onto people long enough to have them function well. We have not had enough execs for at least 15 years now, which puts undue strain on those we do have; and we could cut the top guy a bit, but our council is no where near the higher levels some are, even though it is expensive to live here.

      Will any of it happen; probably not. But, even if it did, there are some that simply hate National and Council because they are professionals and they are volunteers, so they would still not be happy. Personally, I feel we could function better if the old type commissioner staffs still worked. They don't though in most areas. Much of it has to do with time restraints on volunteers. But there is also a completely different viewpoint of cooperative efforts in the communities now. Far more people would rather throw money at something to NOT have to actually be involved, while too few still do most of the heavy lifting. My father told me once, years ago though, that even in the 50's nad 60's when I was a scout that only about 20% of parents did much, even to the extent of not having enough drivers at times.

      Try to keep that idea it is for "the youth" in the forefront, and just persevere if you can.

      Comment


      • #10
        Ok a few comments from a former pro. Can the BSA salaries for top execs be high, yep when you compare to the average working stiff out there like you and me. But when you compare to comparable level execs in the private, for profit industry, it's small potatoes.

        I know when I was a DE, I had a bunch of friends who when they left, would double, and in one case triple, there BSA salary. I've stayed in the non-profit sector, so I've haven't lucked out like them.

        Comment


        • #11
          so ballpark.... what does a DE make?

          Comment


          • #12
            Starting is in the $35K to $40K in our area; do not know if this is standard, but likely. If they hang on long enough, they get better, enough to survive with a small family in less expensive areas of the country. Been told the medical is exceptional, but someone else with actual experience would have to comment. No matter, DE is one of the least family friendly jobs you can imagine due to its hours and when those hours occur. Add in how many councils are constantly under the gun to stay in budgets, and the strain is huge. Have seen a number of young execs either quit to survive and have a life, or get divorced due to the stresses.

            Still, actually better than the very early days. Read the book Men of Schiff to get an idea of back then.

            Reality is that working in just about any youth serving position is not going to make you rich, and likely will only pay big in satisfaction when something really cool happens that makes it worthwhile. That goes for the volunteer side too of course; I mean the pay back for the time.

            Comment


            • #13
              Let's look at it this way: Mazzuca was paid 34 cents per member. Garibay was paid $4.31 per member.

              Comment


              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                So what your saying is that 17% of the membership fee, which is more than the BSA goes to pay the CE salary

                where 1.4% of each BSA membership fee goes to pay the CE


                hmmmmm

              • qwazse
                qwazse commented
                Editing a comment
                Which membership fee? The 2010 one?

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                using scout nuts numbers

            • #14
              Although I can't speak to the validity of the cited numbers, I have seen the salaries of top execs in large councils, and would not be shocked if number given for the CSE's salary is in the correct range. America is rifle with the issue of overpaid top execs, our non-profits are as guilty as any. I'm not excusing excessive salaries, far from it, but I'm not remotely surprised.

              As members, we should expect full disclosure of the compensation paid to our professionals, and have a voice in approving those salaries. I imagine a 50% pay cut of every BSA exec, above DE, would not only not damage BSA, but greatly benefit it. Those funds could be used to give DE's, and grass roots level support staff, a 25% raise, and still have enough left to reduce Jambo and High Adventure base fee's by 50%, making these programs available to a larger group of scouts.

              Comment


              • #15
                I think council fundraising is boarding on stealing.

                They are not delivering on what they are telling the folks who are donating.

                Comment

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