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Which Eagle do you regard higher?

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  • Which Eagle do you regard higher?

    Another topic influenced this question: Which Scout would you regard higher in having earned his Eagle?
    26
    Scout with little parent involvement in Scouting
    19.23%
    5
    Scout whose parents are actively involved
    0.00%
    0
    Scout whose parent is a SM or ASM
    0.00%
    0
    No preference, Eagle is Eagle.
    80.77%
    21

  • #2
    The scout who's parents are involved/are an SM/ASM, probably do a lot more work to get their Eagle than the rest. They clean up after meetings, make sure the trailer is cleaned up after a campout, and just generally do a lot more detail work. That said, they also have more opportunities than the rest, which evens things out.

    Comment


    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      Your statement is not correct.

      A leaders son does no more or less work than a non leaders son to earn his Eagle. But he probably does more work preparing for campouts, setting up meetings and such.

    • Old_OX_Eagle83
      Old_OX_Eagle83 commented
      Editing a comment
      Basement is correct. The thing to keep in mind here is advancement is a method of scouting, not the purpose of scouting. Every scouts experience and path will vary, what they have learned, and how they have grown during their time as scouts is all the matters at the end of the day.

      I'm an Eagle, and am proud of my accomplishments, but this rank, and advancement toward eagle didn't make me who I am, and do not sum up my scouting experience/ Eagle is an important mile stone, but only a mile stone at the end of the day.

      It's important to keep things in perspective, and honestly, there's to much focus on Eagle.
      Last edited by Old_OX_Eagle83; 01-20-2014, 10:40 AM.

  • #3
    It depends on the Scout, not the parent.

    Stosh

    Comment


    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      Ditto.

    • fred johnson
      fred johnson commented
      Editing a comment
      Best answer.

  • #4
    The Eagles I hold in high regard are those who live the Oath and Law, who stay with the program and give back to it, who show real concern and compassion for their fellow Scouts and those in their patrol and troop. These are the guys who take on extra responsibility and thrive on it, who do more than the minimum, and put forth sincere effort to do their best.

    While that is often independent of the parent's involvement, apples tend to fall near apple trees.

    Comment


    • #5
      Parents should be involved in a boy's Scouting advancement. What matters more to me is the personal initiative of the Scout and how much he really worked to earn the award as opposed to the Scout who is pushed through to be an Eagle in the shortest possible time limit. An immature 13 year old Eagle with 35 merit badges doesn't hold much weight in my book.

      Comment


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        How about that Boy that earned all the merit badges at 14????

        Parents should butt out of the Boys advancement.

      • kjmillig
        kjmillig commented
        Editing a comment
        Parents' involvement to the point of encouragement, helping the Scout set and achieve goals, being active where parents should be active like Committees, transportation, etc.
        If parents "butt out" completely is sends a message that the parents couldn't care one way or the other about the boy advancing.

      • Old_OX_Eagle83
        Old_OX_Eagle83 commented
        Editing a comment
        Parents need to understand the role of "parent" in the Boy Scout program. I say role of "parent" because it is a role completely separate of any other role they may have in relationship to the unit in questions; mixing roles leads to big problems.

        A "parent" supports the scout, like a cheerleader supports a sports team. A "parent" supports the unit the best of his or ability, in whatever way the unit needs support.

        The scout grows, matures, gains confidence, and moves through the scout program under the direction of senior youth, and is mentored/coached by qualified adult leaders, who in that role are never the parent; although they might be the parent at home.

    • #6
      Some Eagles are more worthy than others, but I do not see any of your three factors as relevant to the worthiness of an Eagle. Sorry. Perhaps you could explain why you set those factors out for voting.

      Comment


      • RememberSchiff
        RememberSchiff commented
        Editing a comment
        Not perfect, just a scout program done right whereby a scout wants to "show up" whether his parents are there or not and a troop is not held together by one adult (whether true or not).

        Not arguing your real world examples that a scout/player could do well with a parent as SM/coach, but I have seen the opposite side of the coin as well.

        Another $0.01

      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        I disagree, many units are held together by one driven adult. How many units have you seen self destruct after a longtime SM retires???

      • RememberSchiff
        RememberSchiff commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes many units are, doesn't mean that's the way it should be.

        I have seen some units (and companies) destruct because there was no one to take over. I have seen more run into the ground by self-important legends who stayed too long.

    • #7
      The causal path may be reversed. A driven boy (or two) may motivate a parent to take on leadership roles. For example, I announce HS soccer games and try to coordinate other parents and youth as announcers and spotters. Not because I'm all that into sports, but because all of my kids are passionate about soccer. And thanks to my scouting career, I'm a bit of a ham.

      Comment


      • #8
        Did we succeed in helping form a young man of good character? That's my type of Eagle. I earned my Eagle and had drop and go parents. I turned out ok. Been aged out for a few years and I'm still active in my original unit. I don't think it matters. I wasn't the Scoutmasters son yet I always stayed after meetings and trips to help clean and organize. Good topic.

        Comment


        • Sentinel947
          Sentinel947 commented
          Editing a comment
          My hope is that even a 14 year old , having three years of Boy Scouts has exposed him to the Oath and Law and that he's internalized them. That's my standard for any Scout, Eagle candidate or not. I'm not judging their character.

          My original comment stands as written. Nowhere did I use the term judgment.

          I did say help form him into a man of character. Operative Word in the statement is helping. Scouting is only one part of a young man or woman's development into an adult.

          If a Scouting has failed to make an impression on a Scout by 14, something isn't right.

          I've got no issue with 13 year old Eagles or 17 and 11 month Eagles. I don't care. Don't you always say it's just a checklist anyways?

        • Basementdweller
          Basementdweller commented
          Editing a comment
          It is a checklist in the purest sense.

          If you complete the check marks you earn it.

          National, Council, District and Parents have removed the Troops ability to do any quality control.

          If you doubt it, explain to me how boys who break law stealing, drug use or even sexual crimes still receives his Eagle.

          If it is to ever return to anything more than a check list, then they need to start rejecting some of these substandard scouts.

        • Sentinel947
          Sentinel947 commented
          Editing a comment
          Earning ranks and badges is a means to an end. Not an end by themselves. Whether Eagle is a checklist or not is irrelevant. (I agree that it is) a scout progressing through the ranks is spending a minimum amount of time In the program. That time is our chance to instill the Scout Oath and Law. To be part of the Teenagers moral and citizenship development. If the program is fun and engaging, and outside factors don't take the Scout away, they'll stay for the duration of their teenage years.

          Eagle means something because we expect after a minimum of a year and a half (that's about the fastest Eagle can be earned right?) they've been exposed to the values by working with their peers and being mentored by friendly, wise, caring adults. Sounds to me the same reason why Scouting means something....

          If our units churn out "bad" Eagles we've failed in our roles as Scoutmasters. I think the requirements are fine. If they are made subjective, there are immature Scoutmasters who will abuse that subjectivity. The Scoutmasters we have here are likely the Cream of the Crop (considering many of you are here to give advice to fellow Scouters) but I doubt that all Scoutmasters would refrain from abusing their powers.

          As for the Eagles who break the law, or are unsavory characters, it's simply impossible to say that all Scouts are going to be good people because they were Scouts. Influencing character is hard. Scouting can only do so much. All of our Scouts have influences in their lives and they only see us once a week and one weekend a month. Some bad influences get to greet them when they wake up or open the schoolhouse door. You certainly know this better than I do Basement. The Scouts in your unit have it much harder than I did growing up.
          Last edited by Sentinel947; 01-18-2014, 10:09 AM.

      • #9
        What a bunch of self righteous BS..


        Seriously folks, Eagle is just a checklist, Run the checklist get your patch.


        So who puts in more work to Complete the check list????? Depends on the Troop and how it is run. A lad could be in a troop with figure head youth leaders and the adults do all of the work. So certainly not him.

        or he could be in a purely boy led troop where the youth run the program and take care of the gear.

        Or somewhere in the middle, I bet most of the troops run like this.


        So from my experience the Leaders son's do more work than any other troop member, they arrive early and stay late, help set up and clean up. on and on. I would like to add that it also depends on the leader......Is is a do nothing ASM or committee member???? Or is it the QM mentor???? So I would like to qualify my statement a bit to exclude these folks.

        I posted a thread a year or two ago about a statement my son made......It stinks being a leaders son. I am sensitive to his sense of fairness and the amount of work he puts in compared to the rest of the troop.


        To answer the question, I hold neither in higher regard.

        But I know who put in the extra effort in my Troop.

        Last edited by Basementdweller; 01-17-2014, 07:06 AM.

        Comment


        • #10
          All my boys get the same program, it's up to them what they make of it. Some of my best scouts did not get Eagle. Some of my Eagles got through the requirements and that's about it.

          Stosh

          Comment


          • #11
            Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by.

            Comment


            • #12
              Stosh and BD bring up some very good points. It is not the Eagle that makes an honorable scout it is the boy and how he advances and what he learns and retains as an adult. The Eagle is merely a checklist as BD said, many put their heart into receiving Eagle while many others do the absolute minimum work to squeeze by. It is those minimalists that I have no respect for.

              Comment


              • #13
                Thinking about this again. I do love the slaps at 13 year old Eagles, since I was one (a month before my 14th Birthday). Nothing like telling a committed Scout he is not good enough.

                So I meet a young man on the campus who tells me was an Eagle. Things I might find interesting:

                What was your project?
                Did you serve as SPL? (this gets more points for college admissions)
                Philmont or equivalent?
                Which merit badges do you remember?

                Regardless though, I know that in one youth activity he did what it took to earn the highest achievement. He gets my respect, and my expectations for any future discussions as well.

                One of my favorite compliments at the office one day was "You must have been an Eagle."
                One of my favorite memories from college was that 1/3 of the men in my dorm were Eagles. None of us compared what it took, we just led the dorm campout to Yosemite.

                Comment


                • Basementdweller
                  Basementdweller commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nice Ego.....


                  Did you even bother to read my statement????

                  Anyone who says you can judge a 13 or 14 year old and tell me what kind of man he is going to be is a liar. You never know.

                  I never said they were undeserving.

                  That would mean Eagle had some sort of moral or ethical standard.......It does not.

                  It means you completed a check list. thats all.

                • Basementdweller
                  Basementdweller commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Your comment on SPL and more points on college admissions.


                  Please cite your source.

                • Horizon
                  Horizon commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Maybe a misread your statement. I do grow tired of people who put roadblocks in the way of young Scouts who are "moving too fast." Insults on this board towards young Eagles not being good enough also get my attention. If that was not what you meant, apologies. I hear them regularly.

                  For college admissions - a faculty member on the admissions committee for the local university. This school recognizes that SPL is the "President" of the Club, and that gets points towards admissions.

              • #14
                Eagle is an attitude. How hard will someone push themselves to do the right thing. Whether service to help an elderly couple shovel their sidewalk or hiking out of the Grand Canyon, it still requires going above and beyond. Some that do the requirements have the attitude. Many don't. A few have the attitude but don't do the requirements. What this has to do with parents or scoutmasters is more related to chance. Some of this attitude is trainable and I suppose the more a scout sees it the more he's likely to absorb it -- so plus one for the active parents. At the same time there's also a genetic component. Some kids just have it when they show up from cub scouts and I'm guessing the parents just get in the way in that case. My son, at age 22, thanked me for taking him on all those campouts and service projects yet, when he started, he was very timid. I would say I've seen a closer correspondence between attitude and participation then attitude and rank.

                Comment


                • #15
                  So, you meet a gentleman (young or old) and, he mentions he is an Eagle Scout. Do you question him on his family, and scouting, life in order to decide how high you should "regard" his accomplishment?

                  What do you do if you decide his answers are not "good" enough, and you do not feel he is a very "worthy" Eagle?

                  If you would really judge someone based on YOUR criteria of how/why they EARNED Eagle, what kind of person (not simply Scout/Scouter) does that make you?

                  Personally, I could care less about the minutia. He completed all of the requirements, and EARNED Eagle. That is something.

                  Heck, I think plowing thru all of those boring as heck merit badges in itself deserves some kind of award!

                  Comment


                  • RememberSchiff
                    RememberSchiff commented
                    Editing a comment
                    My polling question was meant in the context of your own unit, as otherwise how would you know. Sorry for the confusion.

                    We have a scout who is working on his Eagle project now. His parents have had minimum involvement with the troop. This scout has said no thank you to having an Eagle Scout Advisor, "I can do it". Self-confident, self-motivated, yeah, he impresses me.
                    Last edited by RememberSchiff; 01-18-2014, 04:45 PM. Reason: grammar
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