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Mom & Pop Troop... wont grow, won't invite new leaders in....

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  • Mom & Pop Troop... wont grow, won't invite new leaders in....

    I am a new District Commissioner, and one of the first things that I did was to review the rosters of the units and I found a troop that somewhat startled me...

    They have only 4 boys in their troop, and they have a total of 3 adults for all positions.... all the adults doubled up on "positions" in the troop.

    The Scoutmaster is also the IH. (He used to be the IH at his unit 3 years ago, but it never changed on their recharter for some reason)

    His wife is the CC and a MC. (She also serves as a de facto ASM)

    Their COR is also a MC. (He also serves as a de facto ASM

    My understanding is that they must have a COR, CC, and 2 MC's.

    The COR can serve as the CC... correct ? Can the COR also be a MC ? (I guess so ??)

    But the CC cannot also serve as a MC.

    I have been told that this unit is a "Mom and Pop" troop, where they have no desire to grow larger, and that they like having a small troop of less than 5 boys.

    What are the rules about their being allowed to "double up" on positions in a troop ?




  • #2
    If the boys are happy and the parents are happy, then why would you, as a new DC, want to come in and make trouble where none exists?

    Comment


    • #3
      Is there a minimum number of boys as a Troop?

      Comment


      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        I can't find a hard rule but I believe it is five for a regular unit, less for LDS. Maybe a council level rule.

      • NeverAnEagle
        NeverAnEagle commented
        Editing a comment
        I think you an be a troop of 1.

        We have a troop here that was down to 2 before crossing over some Weblos in May.

    • #4
      Call me a skeptic, but it sounds was too "intimate" for my liking.

      Comment


      • #5
        Yes, the minimum used to be 5 ?? , but I think the new recommendation is now 10 by BSA. Bigger issue is that that the dual registered "COR/CM" left the troop in June of this year.

        At this point, the husband and wife team are scoutmaster, and serving as their own committee... Doesn't a troop need a CC, and three MC's... that are 4 independent persons ?

        Comment


        • #6
          Requirements to charter/re-charter per BSA National -

          The chartered organization selects one of its members
          to register as chartered organization representative
          who may also serve as chair or as unit committee
          member if needed. All units must have a unit leader
          and a minimum of five paid youth. There must be at
          least three committee members, with one named chair.
          Packs must have a den leader/Webelos den leader/Tiger
          Cub leader who should be registered as an adult in the
          pack. The chartered organization also provides meeting
          facilities for the unit. No one may register in more than
          one position in the same unit, except the chartered
          organization representative.

          Bottom line - Per National, at minimum, a Troop MUST have 5 paid youth, and 4 registered adults. This Troop has 4 youth, and 3 adults.

          It sounds like your council, and it's registrar, have made big time allowances for this Troop. Your might have a talk with your DE about this. I'll bet this has been done to prevent the DE from losing a unit. Remember, their salaries are tied to their numbers (units/youth/adults/$).

          Tread lightly.

          Comment


          • #7
            WCS: Have you had a sitdown with these folks? Who is the CO? Is it a viable entity or is it a "Friends of" CO? What role does it play in this? What are the boys' ages? Ranks? Is this one of those "My son makes Eagle and I'm done" kind of things? If so, these folks are really not being fair to the other boys nearby who might Actually want to be a Scout but this "Troop" isn't even trying to play fair. I would say to them, "here are the requirements to have a REAL Scout Troop: 5 (or 10?) boys, 5 seperate adults in various roles, etc. etc. " and if they can fufill the charter requirements, let'em pay the dues and have fun.... Otherwise, drop the charter, urge them to re-up with another Troop and move on.
            If this is the worst of your problems in your DIstrict, be thankful....

            Comment


            • #8
              This is from the New Unit Application, currently on the BSA website:

              The Chartered Organization selects one of its members to register as chartered organization representative who may also serve as chair or as unit committee member if needed. All units must have a unit leader and a minimum of five paid youth. There must be at least three committee members, with one named chair.
              Packs must have a den leader/Webelos den leader/Tiger Cub leader who should be registered as an adult in the pack. The chartered organization also provides meeting facilities for the unit. No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative.

              Comment


              • Papadaddy
                Papadaddy commented
                Editing a comment
                Sorry...didn't mean to echo a previous post...

            • #9
              There are plenty of LDS troops with less than 5. So we know it is not a hard rule.

              Comment


              • Bando
                Bando commented
                Editing a comment
                But how many scouts are they chartering? Isn't the criticism of LDS scouting that their actual active numbers usually don't match the chartered amounts?

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Ok, I get it. National just wants to make sure they get $121 per unit.

            • #10
              Small unit scouting is the BEST! When your entire unit fits into two cars you can go ANYWHERE! It does have it's drawbacks, namely, filling adult leadership slots. It can be a challenge if you don't at least get a trickle of new youth blood annually as well. I wouldn't trade my small unit experiences for all the 100+ member battalion-sized troops in the world. So, I'll echo dedkad, if everybody is happy and safe, leave the bureaucrat's rulebook at home. Otherwise you will be down a unit because they don't need scouts to go camping.

              Comment


              • #11
                DC - I won't knock a "small" troop, but one that is too small to be considered just one patrol is really doing a disservice to the scouts. It really does very little to build a lads leadership skills when the SPL is really just a glorified PL position. If there are less than 10 youth in the unit, how does a older scout have enough younger scouts to lead? Conversely, what happens if you have a gap in membership... you can easily end up with all scouts less than 13 years of age and no one above 1st class rank. Who is going to the be youth leadership in such a troop? You pretty much would be forced into an adult led model due to a lack of age/rank diversification, would you not? A small unit does make logistics much easier. Maybe there is more accountability b/c a lad can't slide under the radar like some do in a 100+ member unit. So, there are pluses and minuses in my view.

                Now, the troop described above concerns me for a couple reasons. The first is too much authority / control in one families hands. The second is if they are not recruiting at all... the DE might hang on to his unit numbers in the short term, but the unit will eventually fold... there are no stagnant troops, you are either growing or you are shrinking. Once the 4-5 youth either Eagle or age out, the unit will close up.

                Dean

                Comment


                • dcsimmons
                  dcsimmons commented
                  Editing a comment
                  All true. We never used the SPL position because it was an unnecessary administrative burden . If you end up with all scouts less than 13 (we started with all scouts less than or equal to 12) it's basically a NSP, you elect a patrol leader and everybody learns at the same time. We were probably more adult-led than we should have been at times, but, I know some larger troops that suffer the same problem. The default troop models didn't fit us very well so we made our own way. Totally high risk but totally worth it.
                  Last edited by dcsimmons; 11-05-2013, 03:38 PM. Reason: post was cut off because I used a less than sign

              • #12
                I think most of us can see the value of a small unit but the question is when is a Troop too small to be viable. In this Troop I wonder what mechanisms are in place to keep things accountable, balanced, and fair. I know in our Troop the Committee keeps the big picture planning and lets the SM concentrate on the boys.

                Comment

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