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What changes would you make if you were Robert Gates, the new BSA president

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  • #61
    well it seems some sanity has been added to this thread by AZMike. I for one welcome our new southwestern overlord.

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    • #62
      Add a girls program. Do not allow integrated units (though I'd pilot test it in a few councils and see what's up), but a Boy-Cubs and Girl-Cubs, and a Scouting for Boys and Scouting for Girls program (separate from the Girl Guiding/Leadership program GSUSA offers) at the middle school level that feeds into a Co-ed High School venturing program.

      Unified Committee for ALL BSA programs. We might need Cub/Boy/Venturing subcommittee chairs, but separate leadership pulls us into different directions, or has anyone noticed that only 25% of Cubs transition to Boy Scouts and hit First Class? Stop mucking with the Cub program because of problems in the Boy Scout program, and fix the boy scout program, including the fact that you make it a pain in the butt to run a good transition.

      We launched a GSUSA program for the sisters that wanted a scouting program. They loved doing stuff with our pack, but it was lame that they couldn't o achievements together. It helps that the Cubmaster and Committee Chair's daughters were amongst the first signups, and one of the leaders was the wife of the Key 3.

      However, needing to process double paperwork, track two sets of calendars, etc., is a real PITA, and for no reason.

      Also, with 2 BSA fundraisers a year and 2 GSUSA fundraisers/year, I'm burning out my parents that have both genders. And it's suffering.

      In terms of BSA's ability to create a girls program. Grab the pre-1970s GSUSA handbooks off Ebay and do the same thing you did to bring BSA's programming up to speed. No need to use any GSUSA copyrighted material, but the information is in there.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by dcsimmons View Post
        I'm curious, and I'm not trying to be chippy at all, but for those of you advocating for co-ed because it's easier for your family, do you also advocate for co-ed sports teams? I see plenty of parents running son to baseball three days a week and daughter to softball three other days and/or times but rarely hear them ask for co-ed participation or complain that their daughter can't be on the baseball team. Just curious.
        We take our kids to Upward Sports, a Christian sponsored league for basketball, baseball, and soccer. One of the league rules is that siblings are if at all possible scheduled to practice on the same night. I've never had a problem with my 7 year old daughter and 9 year old son practicing the same night in the same location, although each is one a single gender team.

        So, while it's not a co-ed team, it is a co-ed program that is very considerate to the families of the kids. As a parent, I very much appreciate their efforts.

        To be fair, this is a developmental league to teach the kids to have fun and learn to play well. It is not an uber competitive traveling team that practices 3-4 times a week, travels all over, and the rest of the family be damned. We did not choose that type of sports program for either of our children. I feel sorry for any kid, boy or girl, who is relegated to tagging along on their sports star sibling's endless practices and traveling.

        We try hard to balance our time and money fairly with both of our children, and I don't mind telling them that there are limits on our family's time and money, and they will have to let us know which activities are the most important to them so we can make the best use of the time and money we are able to devote to extracurriculars.

        You seem to be comparing apples and oranges. There are very good physical reasons why boys and girls can't compete well on the same team in most sports. I don't see the same issue in Cub Scouts. My daughter is just as capable of pitching a tent, cooking outdoors, etc., as my son. I don't see any gender inherent problem with boys and girls participating in the same Scout activities at the Cub level where we are now.

        Our pack has always allowed sisters to participate. The BSA just won't let them earn the badge for their participation and have a uniform to put it on. I see no reason for the distinction.

        GA Mom

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        • #64
          Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post

          You seem to be comparing apples and oranges. There are very good physical reasons why boys and girls can't compete well on the same team in most sports. I don't see the same issue in Cub Scouts. My daughter is just as capable of pitching a tent, cooking outdoors, etc., as my son. I don't see any gender inherent problem with boys and girls participating in the same Scout activities at the Cub level where we are now.
          Yep, I admit it's not a perfect comparison but I don't think it's all that far off the mark. The rest of the gender-based sports comparison would require beverages for a full and complete discussion though .

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          • #65
            That is my Bear on a Cub campout almost two weeks ago. Bunch of boys running around playing tag and two heads collided. It was swollen shut and he missed a couple of days of school. That picture was the next morning, it looked even worse on Monday. If one of those kids had been a girl we would be in deep trouble "you let them play to rough". All future campouts would have been boring as dirt with the adults constantly telling the Cubs to sit and be still.

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            • #66

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              • #67
                Well it won't let me post the photo. But suffice it to say I haven't seen a boxer look that bad since Rocky.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                  That is my Bear on a Cub campout almost two weeks ago. Bunch of boys running around playing tag and two heads collided. It was swollen shut and he missed a couple of days of school. That picture was the next morning, it looked even worse on Monday. If one of those kids had been a girl we would be in deep trouble "you let them play to rough". All future campouts would have been boring as dirt with the adults constantly telling the Cubs to sit and be still.
                  Who says that is what people would say? Ever watch young girls playing soccer? Lots of running, bumps and bruises. The kids have a blast, and I don't see any of the parents saying "now slow down, we don't want you getting that uniform dirty".

                  I just don't see why people assume letting girls in somehow equals turning every event into "sit and be quiet". Girls want adventure just as much as the boys. And the ones that don't, simply won't join.

                  I wonder if it isn't that some people deep down don't really want their girls to run around and be adventurous? Because it isn't ladylike? Is it the old "if they are too tomboyish that means they will become lesbians" thing? It reminds me of an old coworker. He was complaining about his niece, and how her parents restricted her dress, sports and other activities to things that were properly girlish. She wanted to join the basketball team in school with her friends, but that wasn't allowed as it wasn't girlish enough (she was told volleyball or nothing). She had to dress in pink and other girl colors. Even her school classes were restricted (she wasn't allowed to take chemistry as that was a "boy subject"). I hate to think what happened when she wanted to go to college.

                  Almost the entire scouting world somehow makes coed work. I don't understand the "girls will destroy scouting" crowd. Did it destroy scouting in Australia? Canada? France? UK? Spain? Germany? Italy? Ireland? Japan? Mexico?. Why won't it work here? Especially if we allow COs the choice.
                  Last edited by Rick_in_CA; 05-30-2014, 01:37 AM. Reason: fix typo

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Rick_in_CA View Post
                    Who says that is what people would say? Ever watch young girls playing soccer? Lots of running, bumps and bruises. The kids have a blast, and I don't see any of the parents saying "now slow down, we don't want you getting that uniform dirty". I just don't see why people assume letting girls in somehow equals turning every event into "sit and be quiet". Girls want adventure just as much as the boys. And the ones that don't, simply won't join. I wonder if it isn't that some people deep down don't really want their girls to run around and be adventurous? Because it isn't ladylike? Is it the old "if they are too tomboyish that means they will become lesbians" thing? It reminds me of an old coworker. He was complaining about his niece, and how her parents restricted her dress, sports and other activities to things that were properly girlish. She wanted to join the basketball team in school with here friends, but that wasn't allowed as it wasn't girlish enough (she was told volleyball or nothing). She had to dress in pink and other girl colors. Even her school classes were restricted (she wasn't allowed to take chemistry as that was a "boy subject&quot. I hate to think what happened when she wanted to go to college. Almost the entire scouting world somehow makes coed work. I don't understand the "girls will destroy scouting" crowd. Did it destroy scouting in Australia? Canada? France? UK? Spain? Germany? Italy? Ireland? Japan? Mexico?. Why won't it work here? Especially if we allow COs the choice.
                    The entire Scouting world is a bit more progressive than the USA. It won't work here because at a Pack Meeting a 3rd grade cub allegedly beat up a 6th grade female sibling twice his weight and I had to mediate the BS (not Boy Scout) kerfuffle between the two DL parents. Is that ruff and tumble soccer team co-ed? Does a DL have an eye on every Cub at every moment ready to pull the yellow card at the first sign of any infraction with 40 adults eyeing every step ready to raise holy hell if he doesn't pull that yellow card? And 20 video cameras catching every single microsecond? So when a girl gets a black eye from an accident involving a boy is it written off as kids being kids, rub some mud on it and shake it off? Of course not, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Call in the choppers.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by chrisking0997 View Post
                      well it seems some sanity has been added to this thread by AZMike. I for one welcome our new southwestern overlord.
                      Well said, and your loyalty will be amply rewarded. If elected, I will immediately dissolve the electoral process and then appoint you the Duke of the Plains States.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by DuctTape View Post
                        I know my suggestions would not be popular, but I would:

                        . . .

                        Prohibit the use of non-adults as Merit Badge counselors at summer camp.

                        Prohibit Large group Merit badge classes (MB universities/mills).

                        . . .
                        The first is and has always been prohibited, but BSA does not enforce its rules.

                        The second is discouraged and individual testing of each Scout on each requirement is mandated. But again . . .
                        Last edited by TAHAWK; 06-02-2014, 08:51 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by perdidochas View Post

                          They would have to use the same rules of YP as we currently use. At least one same sex adult has to be there for every gender present at the campout. If only boys, you need at least one male adult leader. If only girls, you need at least one female adult leader. If both are present, you need both a male and female adult leader. Fairly simple.
                          One adult leader at a campout? I think not. Perhaps you mean one 18-year-old adult and one 21-year-old adult


                          Boy Scouts of Canada went co-ed and opened membership to, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, atheists, and agnostics. Their membership crashed - down 63% If you argue it's not cause and effect, at least there was no increase in membership.
                          http://www.scoutscan.com/issues/membershipstats.html


                          We can't avoid the culture wars unless we abandon all talk of "values."


                          If you stand for everything, you stand for nothing.

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                          • #73
                            Boy Scouts of Canada went co-ed and opened membership to, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, atheists, and agnostics. Their membership crashed - down 63% If you argue it's not cause and effect, at least there was no increase in membership.

                            And the UK Scout Association has done much the same thing, and membership has been increasing since 2005.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Merlyn_LeRoy View Post
                              Boy Scouts of Canada went co-ed and opened membership to, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, atheists, and agnostics. Their membership crashed - down 63% If you argue it's not cause and effect, at least there was no increase in membership.

                              And the UK Scout Association has done much the same thing, and membership has been increasing since 2005.
                              So North Americans should avoid admitting atheists, homosexuals, and transvestites at all costs, although the British may get away with it. Thanks for the heads up, Merlyn.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by TAHAWK View Post
                                ... One adult leader at a campout? I think not. Perhaps you mean one 18-year-old adult and one 21-year-old adult ....
                                Perd's post in no way suggested one-deep adult leadership. He was very specific that the requirement was "at least one" of the congruent sex of the youth involved. For an all boys outing, the unit certainly may only have one male adult ...along with one or more female adult leaders.

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