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Facts About Atheists according to Pew

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  • #16
    Well AZMike, your examples of Christian business owners being told by the state they have to provide services for LGBT weddings is simply a matter of businesses being considered public accommodations. They can't refuse their services any more than someone whose religion objects to mixed-race marriages, or mixed-religion marriages could refuse to do business with couples of mixed races or mixed religions. You can argue against public accommodation laws, but I'm in favor of them.

    As for Catholic adoption agencies, if they take state money they have to follow the rules for accepting that money. They could still discriminate if they want to forgo state money and be an entirely private adoption organization, but they decided not to do that. I see nothing wrong with the state having requirements for their adoption funding.

    For atheists suing the IRS, all nonprofits, including churches, are prevented from endorsing political candidates. Some churches have been violating this law, so the atheists sued the IRS to make them apply the law. Of course, if you want to be completely private and not get nonprofit status, churches can endorse political candidates.

    About the HHS fight, it's not atheists doing that.

    Military chaplains aren't supposed to insult soldiers in military service, and writing the old "no atheists in foxholes" does just that. Such insults are an actual violation of military regs.

    The Santa Monica situation was where Christians had preferential treatment for 60 years; when the city had to change it to a fair system, atheists got most of the spots. So now you're complaining about a level playing field.

    And sorry, you can't take public school students to a church to see them put on "A Charlie Brown Christmas" as a play. Besides the religious problems, the church was violating the law because the owners of the rights weren't allowing it to be performed anywhere as a live play:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...own-christmas/

    And the atheist monument is in a public forum. Again, atheists are being treated the same as anyone else. Got a problem with that?

    For student clubs, that's only if the groups want official recognition (which often includes some funding). If they want to be an entirely private group without official recognition, they can do that. If you think it's a violation, file a lawsuit.

    Am. Atheists sued over the 9/11 cross because not just Christians were killed in the attack.

    "Government officials have misused their powers to deny business licenses to those whose religious beliefs differ from those held by the government officials on LGBT marriage:"

    Well, now you can't read. The mayor of Boston said that, and he was reprimanded by the ACLU, and NO business license was ever denied:
    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/07/b...avoid-threats/
    Also, where's the atheist in this story? The mayor of Boston isn't an atheist.

    As for the Camp Pendleton cross, the US isn't a Christians-only country, there's no reason to have government memorials just for Christians.

    And same for firesighters.

    As for city seals, no, you do not have a "right" to have your religious symbols on city seals.

    "I could go on and on, and on, but the fact is that atheists, and those pursuing secular goals, have attempted to impinge on the religious rights of Americans"

    Sorry, what you call "rights" are not what I call rights. Some of what you are complaining about above are actually Christians losing special privileges and atheists finally being treated equally, such as the Santa Monica story or the atheist monument (which was put up in response to a ten commandments monument on the same public property).

    Comment


    • DigitalScout
      DigitalScout commented
      Editing a comment
      I love Christmas and help decorate our church each year for the Christmas season. But why does the Chester County Courthouse feel the need to put up creche? There are 8 churches within a 1/4 mile of the courthouse with no doubt get decorated with Christmas trees and manger scenes each year. Are the county commissioners trying to make a statement that Chester County is a Christian county and non-Christians aren't welcome? They should accommodate decorations from all religions (including Pastafarians, Wiccans, Satanists) or no religions.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      So go ahead and put them up, it's your Constitutional right. If they don't like yours up there next to theirs, they are free to move theirs to a better, less distracting location on private property where they have control over what gets put up. In a public place, it should be open to all to express their opinions, INCLUDING religious ones.

      Stosh

    • Merlyn_LeRoy
      Merlyn_LeRoy commented
      Editing a comment
      So go ahead and put them up, it's your Constitutional right.

      You can't actually follow conversations, can you? But why bother?

  • #17
    So, let me get this clear. Both religious individuals or groups and non-religious individuals or groups have the same rights. When the religious groups or persons "publicly" express their views, they are trespassing on the rights of the non-religous.

    Nope, you haven't gotten this straight.

    So, the non-religious rights take precedence over the religious rights?

    Nope, you haven't gotten this straight.

    I still have a hard time understanding how these individuals are "harmed" by simply seeing or hearing something with a religious significance or symbolism.

    That isn't the issue, since atheists see and hear a lot of things with religious significance or symbolism, like churches, people wearing crucifixes, people praying, etc. without any lawsuits at all.

    But if you think reeeeeeeeal hard, you might discern why some displays of religion trigger lawsuits (which the atheists often win, which means the law was on their side) and your simplistic examples.

    Seems that they do not have much self assurance if these things have such emotional impact on them.

    That's not the issue at all.

    It also appears that there really is NOT equality here, since the religious element MUST give up their rights to the non-religious in so many cases.

    Nope, nobody has given up rights. In some cases, Christians lose special privileges that they aren't entitled to, but that's not losing rights at all.

    The scale of justice or whatever is out of balance from my perspective.

    Let's see, in Santa Monica, for example, Christians got to put up displays on public property for 60 years. When atheists complained, allocation was made into a lottery system, and atheists happen to win a number of slots (if I recall, Christians got something like three slots). The 60 years part was the unbalanced part.

    Now, if the non-religious wanted to be included in these monuments or memorials and they were NOT given the option, then they would have a real issue of bias.

    That's how atheists finally got a monument put on public property. For the first time ever.
    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/28/...nt-to-atheism/

    But, in most cases, they do not seem to actually want to be included, they simply do not want the religious to express their rightful voice in any manner that they may have to see or hear.

    Nope, but you don't understand the issues anyway.
    Last edited by Merlyn_LeRoy; 11-04-2013, 07:21 PM.

    Comment


    • skeptic
      skeptic commented
      Editing a comment
      You are right; I do not understand because I do not see anybody being harmed most of the time, other than feelings hurt due to thin skin and emotional weakness. Don't pay any attention to something that is against your belief. Simply ignore them or put your own interpretation in the mix; but forcing others NOT to have free speech by threats and litigation is simply abusing their rights at the expense of yours. JMO of course, as I am not hurt either way. We will never reach a point of even near agreement, and I am fine with that. You have a right to your opinion, even if I see it as biased, skewed, and unreasonable. Enjoy.

  • #18
    Merlyn, if you are going to respond by saying "you haven't gotten this straight" and "you don't understand the issues," why are you even posting?

    Comment


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      He's on the forum just to make waves.... You can't get a straight answer out of him, but he surely wants one from you. It's just his game.

  • #19
    AZMike, are you deliberately ignoring my response to you? Skeptic doesn't deserve more of a reply, because his questions are disingenuous.

    Comment


    • #20
      You are right; I do not understand because I do not see anybody being harmed most of the time, other than feelings hurt due to thin skin and emotional weakness.

      You mean the way Christians whine when they lose their special privileges? The way you complain when atheists sue for their rights?

      Don't pay any attention to something that is against your belief. Simply ignore them or put your own interpretation in the mix; but forcing others NOT to have free speech by threats and litigation is simply abusing their rights at the expense of yours.

      I disagree. Looks like you've got your feelings hurt due to your emotional weakness.

      JMO of course, as I am not hurt either way. We will never reach a point of even near agreement, and I am fine with that. You have a right to your opinion, even if I see it as biased, skewed, and unreasonable. Enjoy.

      Yep, how dare atheists try to be treated equally.







      Comment


      • jblake47
        jblake47 commented
        Editing a comment
        I wasn't bitching, I just enjoy pushing whiny people's buttons. I've gotten some of those whines at an octave only dogs can hear.

        Stosh

      • Merlyn_LeRoy
        Merlyn_LeRoy commented
        Editing a comment
        You're whining seems genuine enough to me, particularly in view of your sophophobic tendencies.

      • jblake47
        jblake47 commented
        Editing a comment
        What's that you say? I couldn't hear you, my dog was going nuts barking.

        Stosh

    • #21
      "The Atheists are destroying America" is just another make-believe monster created in the minds of conservatives. For instance, all American students can pray when they wake up, at the breakfast table, before leaving for school, in the car going home, during family dinner and before bed. That's called religious freedom in America. But when secular schools don't have Christian prayer time in the secular classroom, some call it religious persecution. I just don't get that. I'm a Christian and I pray every day with my family. I'm hardly being persecuted because my son can't pray in school.

      Comment


      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        He can pray all he wants in school. I bet he does before every test.

        He just can't lead a group prayer.

      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        He can lead a group prayer. He is not under the obligations of an agent of the state.
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