Questionable Eagle Candidate

[CASCOUTER 10]

Howdy All,

Just needed some unbiased opinions on an issue I am struggling with. I want to be sure to make the best decision so I'm soliciting input for various sources.

 

I am a 3 year Scoutmaster of a Troop of about 35 boys. I have one Eagle Scout candidate who came to me for his Eagle Scout SM Conf. and told me he had been suspended from school this past spring for fighting and "faking" to hit a female teacher. He explained on the teacher incident he was just joking. Earlier this year his father asked me to council the Scout on forging a progress report. He changed an F to a B.

 

In the Scout setting he is an OK Scout. He does what is asked of him but does not demonstrate leadership in a manner that I expect of an Eagle Scout. He is also very easily influenced into inappropriate behavior. He has been involved in an incident where another Scout was injured at the hands of another. He did not do the injury but was part of the small group involved. This was about 3 years ago.

 

In my mind he clearly does not exemplify the ideals and standards of Scouting let alone those of Eagle Scout. I also question if I am being too hard on the boy and am holding him to a higher standard than justified. I know that with time, this 14 year old boy will most likely grow up to become a productive member of society.

 

As a parent I have no experience with a child who struggles with inappropriate behavior. So I really dont have much personal experience to pull from.

 

Thoughts? Questions?

 

In Scouting

 

CASCOUTER

[orennoah 11]

Sounds like he needs some more time to become a true Eagle. Just because he has the merit badges and the project, he's not entitled to the Eagle rank. He needs to become an Eagle first.

 

- Oren

[evmori 11]

In my opinion, he is not living his everyday life according to the Scout Oath & Law.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY 14]

Based upon this information, I would not sign this scout off on the scout spirit requirement. We'd discuss what it will take to convince me that he has turned his life around and is starting to live by the scout oath and law.

[SemperParatus 1]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Ed is right.

 

IMO, it is not so much about age, but attitude. What your post does not seem to address is any sense of reflection or remorse from the boy about his recent actions. Based on your conversations with him, has he demonstrated any sense of shame, or sorrow for threatening a teacher or fighting in school? Or does he only feel bad about the consequences he suffered? If its all just a big joke to him, then he needs help and pinning an Eagle badge on his chest will not help and will also be a joke. He needs to be able to reconcile his recent actions with the Scout Law, reflect on the conflict between the two in his life, seek a way to make amends beyond serving his suspension time (perhaps through personal apologies to the teacher, other student), show that he has learned from the experience and is serious about trying to follow the ideals of the Scout Law.

 

Good luck.

[purcelce 11]

CAScouter,

 

If the kid has completed the requirements then it's your obligation as a scoutmaster to do the conference.

 

During the conference you can address the "problem areas".

 

We can't add or subtract to the requirements.

 

Eagle Scouts are not perfect. I'm an Eagle Scout and I've done quite a few things that broke parts of the Scout Oath and Law. That's being human. We learn from our mistakes and try to do better the next time around.

 

I think you answered your question with your quote " know that with time, this 14 year old boy will most likely grow up to become a productive member of society. "

 

YIS

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor

 

[Bob White 20]

My recommendation would be that if you feel the scouts behavior is not an example of living his everday life according to the principles of the Scout Oath and Law that you not sign his Scout Spirit requiremnet.

 

Have the scoutmaster's conference and after hearing from the scout, if you are still unconvinced, then tell him the reasons you will not sign, but offer him the opportunity to meet with the Board of Review.

 

You are allowed to meet with the Board prior to them beginning their session with the scout. explain to them in detail your concerns and what specific, measurable actions you feel need to be completed by the scout to successfully complete this requirement.

 

Ask them to discuss these concerns with the scout and see if they agree unanimously to advance him at this time or not. Then be willing to let the board determine for themselves if the requirement was completed, or if the scout will be required to complete the action plan determined by the board.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Mike F 10]

BW - right on!

 

CASCOUTER - please let us know how things develop. It's going to be hard, but in the scout's best interest. He needs to learn accountability.

 

-mike

[NeilLup 13]

BW is certainly correct.

 

There is another path. More difficult for you, but one that unquestionably will be upheld by the BSA.

 

The one person who can always defer the advancement of a Scout is the Scout himself. Let's say that you had a Scoutmaster's Conference with questions like "What does it mean to you to be an Eagle Scout? How should an Eagle Scout act and behave? Who are some Scouts that you respect? Why?"

 

Then you might move to "Let's say that you heard that someone who, with the past few months, had done the following things." and list some of his undesirable activities. How would you feel about that person? What would that say about Scouting and about the Eagle Scout award? Would it bring honor to the person and to the Eagle Scout award?

 

Then, move to "Do you really think that you have met all the requirements including Scout Spirit to become an Eagle Scout now? Would you rather lay out a course of action to increase your respect and increase your performance and remove any question that you deserve to be an Eagle Scout?"

 

Done right, this Scout will voluntarily lay out this course of action and will voluntarily defer his advancement.

 

YOu probably want to talk with parents first to make sure that they support your action and that there isn't some type of "No wings, no wheels" edict or else "Get your Eagle so you can drop Scouting and go on to other things for your college application."

 

It can be very tricky to counsel this type of action. But that's why you, as SM, get paid the big bucks.

[ljnrsu 10]

CAScouter,

 I also agree with evmori,EagleInKY,SemperParatus.

 In my opinion this Scout has not fulfilled requirement #2 Demonstrate that you live by the principals of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life.

 I would have a SM conference with the Scout and discuss the concerns I have with his behavior. At the same time I would also explain the actions the Scout should take in order to complete requirement #2. I would also inform the parents of this Scout what my concerns are and what was discussed to alleviate those concerns.

 Just because you had a SM conference it does not mean that you have to automatically sign the Eagle Application.

Another suggestion would be that you discuss your problem with this Scout with your District Advancement Chair and or your Council's Eagle coordinator. See what advice or suggestions they might have.

You also need to discuss this Scout with your Committee Chair as their signature is required on an Eagle Application.

I do not know how Eagle BOR's are done in your Council. I do know that without the signature of both the SM and CC an Eagle BOR would not be convened in our District.