Merit Badge Counselors Outside Troop

[Hunt]

This is related, somewhat, to a thread on the general discussion board about merit badge counselors.

 

Here's the real-life situation, at least in my son's troop. For many merit badges, and just about all the Eagle-required badges, there is an adult affiliated with the troop registered to advise the badge. While there are other registered MBCs in the district, I can't imagine any boy in the troop ever choosing an unknown person to approach as an advisor. The only time they will do this is if the MB is being offered at a merit badge day, or as part of a special program (i.e., a local college offers the Chemistry MB, and a local nature center offers several MBs). I have to say that it is very rare for a scout to approach the SM or the Advancement Coordinator to ask about any MB other than the Eagle-required ones. They tend to get their non-required MBs at camp, or from the special programs, or, more rarely, when they are told that somebody affiliated with the troop was registered to counsel the badge. (For example, when the SM told the boys that I was registered to counsel music, several did approach me and did the badge.) Most of them can get "enough" non-Eagle required MBs from these sources.

 

I'm not sure that there is a problem here, exactly, but the reality deviates from the idea of scouts calling up adults they don't know to arrange MB counseling. I certainly don't want to address the issue by asking people affiliated with the troop not to advise, or by having the SM assign MBCs outside the troop. I guess my question is this: are there troops in which boys do routinely make these "cold calls" to MBCs, and if so, what was done to encourage this, if anything?

[Bob White]

I don't think I have ever been in a troop that offered more than a half dozen merit badges through the troop adults, and yet I have had several scouts who go on to Star, Life, and Eagle. We did only two merit badges in troop meetings. All the other badges were earned at summer camp or by the Scout contacting a MB counselor and making an appointment.

 

Each program month has a theme. The month starts out with basic skills related to the theme and ends up with more advanced skills. Two or three of the activities will meet the requirements of a merit badge related to the them. On the final week the troop librairian holds up related MB booklets and explains that some of the activities we have done can be found in these MBs. The troop is told that anyone wishing to learn about these topics and pursue the merit badge(s) should see the SM after the meeting.

 

It is not our job to "make" scouts advance. We expose them to new things, let them try it, apply it, learn about it. The choice to advance beyond First Class needs to be made by them. They choose their own path and their own rank destination.

 

 

[Trevorum]

Hunt, that is precisely the situation where I am, and I wish that our scouts could work with adults not in own own troop.

 

Back when I was a Scout, most of my MBs counselors were "cold calls" made from a council (or maybe district) supplied master list of MB counselors. Meeting those men was a great experience for me, but in retrospect those one-on-one meetings were in gross violation of (then non-existant) Youth Protection policies. I still remember getting a creepy feeling from my Personal Fitness counselor when I had to take off my shirt and do push-ups. I have since wondered how many Scouts were molested by MB counselors.

 

When my sons were Cubs and before we joined a troop, I tried to sign up as a MB counselor with our Council, but they looked at me funny and said that each troop maintains their own lists. Later, when I was active on the district committee, there were some noises made about compiling a district wide list of approved sounselors, but nothing ever happened with that.

 

I, too, wonder if there are districts or councils out there who do it the old-fashioned way and encourage "cold-calls" (with Scouts using the buddy system of course).

[Bob White]

I, too, wonder if there are districts or councils out there who do it the old-fashioned way and encourage "cold-calls" (with Scouts using the buddy system of course).

 

Actually if you were to read the advancement policies and procedures manual this is the current way. All merit badge counselors must be registered and approved through the council. Units do not have the authority to register anyone or to approve counseors. And while a counselor can choose to just work with scouts from a single unit, they are not required to nor encouraged to, and the unit cannot make them.

 

So while troops (and every scouter for that matter) are encouraged to find qualified mb counselors to share their skill and knowledge with the youth in Scouting, maintaining a troop list should be for the convenience of having an abundance of counselors available not to control who the scout uses.

 

BW

 

 

[Vicki]

Interesting. In our council, not only do you go through HQ to get registered for the MB, but you must give permission for your name and phone number (and e-mail address if you have one) to be published in the directory and on the web-page. Otherwise you won't be allowed to be a counselor.

 

Our troop does have several adults for most, if not all, of the Eagle-required MBs (the Citizenship badges as one notable exception) and all of our guys go to the same counselor for those.

 

Vicki

[Eamonn]

I think that a Lad learns a lot more, what I call "Life Skills" when he goes outside of his home unit.

Of course we guys and girls who serve at the District and Council level can't force a Lad to use any of the services we offer.

I like to think that the District has come a long way with what we offer in the merit badge and advancement department.

I don't remember and have never heard of any District in the Council or the Council ever offering a merit badge university or college.

I suppose if they are done well they could be a good thing, however there does seem to be a trend for these events to become instant merit badge events.

We still have Troops that tend to use the weekly Troop meeting as being the weekly merit badge class and from what I see when I visit, attendance at the class is about all that is required to receive the badge. I really don't think the Lads who sit through these classes have earned the badge and there is little if any merit in it.

While a lot of Scouts attend summer camp and come home with many badges, the quality of the camp staff counselors is questionable. The staff is made up of very young teenagers, who really have never been trained.

Sad to say money plays a big part in this. If we paid our camp staff more money we might attract older staffers or if we had the camp staff arrive earlier, we could spend more time training them.

I was on the camp visitation team last summer.

The camp staff arrived for staff week, the week before camp opened. They came in on Sunday afternoon. The week is a busy week, our camp does not employ a full time ranger, so there is a lot of grunt work that needs to be done. There are camp events to be planned, camp fires and that sort of thing.

We arrived on the Thursday after breakfast. The idea is that the merit badge counselors present to us what they are going to present to the Scouts.

The camp staffers were willing and hard working, but in most cases they had only started working on setting up their areas on Wednesday afternoon. They didn't have half the material that they needed, in some cases the merit badge books were out dated, old and missing pages. These guys were going home on Saturday. I pity the Scouts who came to the first week of camp. Of course if we brought them in a week earlier they would need to be paid. I would sooner the camp offered fewer merit badges and did a better job.

Eamonn.

[packsaddle]

Trevorum, I thought the 'cold call' was ALWAYS supposed to be the way, from a time before I was a boy scout. But I sympathize, we are in a similar situation here and despite my urging, no-one in the district (council as well) seems to pay much attention to the problem. So we limp along doing things poorly, but getting by with a troop-based MB program.

[Hunt]

Let me clarify a bit what happens in my son's troop--I suspect it is common.

We don't do merit badge work at troop meetings (or only very rarely). However, a substantial number of adults are present at troop meetings (in a separate room), so it is fairly easy for scouts to approach them before or after meetings to arrange MB counseling.

Most of the requests to counsel are initiated by the scouts, but they are not completely "cold," because the scouts know the adults already. (In some cases, a scouter who prefers to counsel several scouts at a time will put out the word that he's ready and willing to do that, and the scouts will organize a group to do the MB together.)

For a number of MBs, we have several adults affiliated with the troop registered to counsel them. While we have a list of all registered counselors in the district, I just can't imagine a scout approaching a stranger when he knows an adult who counsels the badge. Indeed, usually the scout already knows who counsels the badge, and names the person when he asks the SM for the blue card.

 

In my experience, it just hasn't happened that a Scout has approached the SM and said, "I want to do Farm Animal Care (or whatever it's called)--can you identify counselors for me?"

 

The district gives the advancement coordinator two lists: all the MBCs registered in the district, by badge, and all the MBCs who are affiliated with the unit. I'm the advancement coordinator for the troop, and I give the lists to everyone when I get them, so there's no mystery about who the counselors are.

 

Is there anything that I (or the SM) could or should do to change the situation? I suppose we could encourage the boys, in general, to consider pursuing MBs that aren't necessarily counseled by someone in the troop. But as I mentioned, most of them already do that, but in the context of organized settings. I don't suppose anybody thinks that the adults affiliated with the troop should stop counseling MBs? (We do have a few gaps--they have to do Swimming and Lifesaving somewhere else--usually they do it at camp.)

[John-in-KC]

Trevorum,

 

Like you, I earned my MBs the "cold call" way.

 

My district is blessed: We run YP training and MBC training every month at roundtable, so we can get adults started in Scoutering using skills they have.

 

We have some phenomenal Troop-Troop relationships, so we can send Scouts out ... now, for THEM it's a cold call. Between Scoutmasters, there's quite a bit of horse trading going on.

 

The biggest challenge these days is keeping environments appropriate for the cold calls: As Trevorum mentioned, in my day Dad would drop me at 7 and pick me up at 8:30. We thought nothing of it. Just can't do that anymore.

 

I suspect PART of the reason "merit badge mills/colleges" came about was the challenge of counseling under the YP policies. Anyone who's been around a while care to comment on that?

 

 

[SemperParatus]

In our troop, we have 35+ adults/parents registered to council approximately 85 different merit badges (with several multiple counselors for a single badge). We consider merit badge counseling a great opportunity to involve parents that want to be involved somehow in scouting but who may not be into camping. Our scouts typically go to one of our 'in-house' counselors, although 'out-house' counselors have been used in several situations as well. Our troop philosophy is that as long as the counselor is registered, who cares if the counselor is in-house, out-house or related. As SM, I would actually prefer our scouts use one of our in-house counselors since I know they have been through our troop's annual MBC training session (district/council provide no such training) and I know the degree to which our counselors uphold the current requirements and work. While that is my preference, I always provide the scouts with a list of all counselors in our district for a particular badge along with the signed blue card. We have had experiences with 'out-house' counselors that have been both good and horrible (no standards, sign-off over a phone call, adding requirements, not using the latest requirements, etc.) I see no problem with working with someone you know. Forcing a scout to go to someone they do not know, just because an adult thinks this is 'how it should be' or 'to provide a maturation opportunity' is inappropriate. It is the scout's decision as to who he wants to select as a counselor for a particular badge he is interested in. He is not served if his decision is imposed upon him, or otherwise limited.

[acco40]

Scouts should not choose their MB counselors. The SM should provide the Scout with the name and contact information of a MB counselor.

[Oak Tree]

Our troop uses troop-based merit badge counselors. Any merit badge that some boy wants, there will be an adult in the troop willing to do the counseling. This is obviously not the "official" way, but like several others here, that's what works for us, and our council/district don't give any hint of having some other way to do it.

 

Oak Tree

[Bob White]

But your council or district do not make BSA policies. The BSA requires that all merit badge counselors be registerd and approved. They must have knowledge of the subject based on education, occupation, or experienced hobbyist. You are seriously minimizing the scouts experience by having parents merely "willing" to counsel without having the actual knowledge of the topic.

 

When you take short cuts for convenience you sacrifice the youth's opportunity for a meaningful experience.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Vicki]

We are fortunate in that we have a very diverse set of talents in the parents involved with MBs. For instance, mine are Personal Management, Cooking and Journalism. I'm an accountant, have been a journalist and have managed two semi-commercial kitchens as well as being a camper/backpacker, etc. We have an adult who manages a veterinary office. So it isn't a matter of "being willing" it's "being willing and able."

 

It also helps that our council office has actually turned down people they considered unqualified to counsel the badge for which they were applying.

 

Vicki

[OldGreyEagle]

A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, after Brownsea Island but before the demise of the red beret, I was working on my Eagle. The last merit badge I earned was the Nature I beleive, it was required and was more like the Environmental Sciences merit badge of today than todays Natuer MB. The closest counselor for that badge was in the next town over. I will never forget Mr Olsen. He was as mean and gruff and nasty an old man as I have ever met. The first time I met him,he looked at my pre work, said it was junk and told me I had to redo it. Which crushed me, I had always passed the merit badge first time out. I redid the work as he said and came back.

 

He insisted I wear my uniform when I returned, so I showed up in my uniform. I think he didnt think I would do that because he wasnt in uniform. We went into his den and he excused himself, he was unbuttoning his shirt as he left the room. He came back in the room uniform shirt on, pulling up his pants and buckling his belt, and I know he is a boxer man. (funny, didnt think anything of it at the time). He reviwed my work, said it was ok and I got the badge. I remember later at the District Eagle COurt of Honor being asked who I did Nature with, and I said Mr Olsen. Wow said a few kids, he is tough, I said yeah he made me do mine over once, and one kid said, your lucky, most kids do it over 3 times, and I felt great.

 

Anyway, learning to deal with adults you dont know, Adult Association, where have I heard that term before?