Question Webelos to Boy Scout

[Locust Fork Leader]

I have a den of Webelos that have earned about 1/2 of the Webelos requirements. They might be eligable (sp?) to move up to Boy Scouts sooner than 2 yrs that the Webelos program allows. My question is, I have 1 boy who is 9 yr. He will be ten this summer. He has a late b'day in the summer. He's younger than the rest of the boys but is right there with them and doing as well or better than some on the requirements. I know that I have heard requirements to move up is 11 yr and/or passed the 5th grade which this boy will do neither. I was just wondering what would happen with this child if he completes the requirements just like the rest of the boys. Will he be able to move up or will he have to stay behind and do nothing?

[SemperParatus]

Scout may register as a boy scout if has earned the Arrow of Light award (or turn 11 years old or complete 5th grade). Earliest that AOL can be earned is six months after completing the fourth grade (or 6 months after turning 10). If the scout completed the fourth grade last summer then there would be no problem with his crossing over with the rest of the den assuming the AOL is earned. If not, then he would have to wait until he meets the joining requirements. I would caution against crossing over too soon - most troops are not in position to accept crossovers until February (at B&G's) or Spring. Also, if there is another Webelos den you want to coordinate with them so it doesn't look like you are blowing out early and leaving them behind. There is something to be said for just savoring your last few months of cub scouting before moving onto boy scouts.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Locust Fork Leader, a few questions:

 

What grade in school are the boys in now?

 

When (month and year) are you looking for them to become Boy Scouts?

 

When you say they have "earned about 1/2 of the Webelos requirements," do you mean requirements for the Webelos badge? (Which IF they are in fourth grade, would be pretty much on track at this point.) Or do you mean the requirements for the Arrow of Light? (Which include earning the Webelos badge.) Or do you mean something else?

 

While you are answering those, a boy can join a Boy Scout troop when he satisfies one of the following three options:

 

Age 11, OR

 

Earn the Arrow of Light and be at least age 10, OR

 

Complete the fifth grade and be at least age 10.

 

Also please note that a Webelos cannot earn the Arrow of Light until he is EITHER 10-and-a-half, OR he has been active in the den for at least six months SINCE completing fourth grade.

[Locust Fork Leader]

NJ Scouter:

What grade in school are the boys in now? Most are in the 4th grade now. I have one that is supposed to be in the 4th grade, but he had to be put back in the 1st grade. Now this is the child that I'm having a problem with. He was a young 1st grader to begin with. I was told that he could progress in rank from tiger (the year that he completed when he was put back into 1st grade).

 

When (month and year) are you looking for them to become Boy Scouts? I'm thinking that it'll be at least 6 months to a year before they can cross over. They have earned their Webelos patch and most has earned the compass points. I just looked at the birthdays of the boys that I have the information for and there will be 2 that won't turn 10 until next year.

 

When you say they have "earned about 1/2 of the Webelos requirements," do you mean requirements for the Webelos badge? (Which IF they are in fourth grade, would be pretty much on track at this point.) Or do you mean the requirements for the Arrow of Light? (Which include earning the Webelos badge.) Or do you mean something else? I meant the Webelos requirements. I was under the impression that you couldn't give the pins for the colors until they had earned the Webelos badge. So it sounds to me that I'm right on track. They have me so worried that I was flying through this program that I was going too fast. I've been doing the program and working with the boys like regular. I just guess I'm more organized than the other leaders. Plus I try to get as much out of our outings when we go that the boys get something earned out of it as much as they get to have fun.

 

Thanks for the information!

[acco40]

"I was told that he could progress in rank from tiger (the year that he completed when he was put back into 1st grade)."

 

 

I'm somewhat confused by the statement above. I believe that that the Cub Scout program is both grade and age based. If a boy was young (say four years old) but a first grader, he could sign up as a Tiger. But if he did not advance to 2nd grade, even if he completed the Tiger program successfully, he would not meet either the age or grade requirement for Wolf. Secondly, if a boy did not complete or earn a Cub Scout rank (let's say he did not earn his Bear badge/rank) he may still "progress" (become a Webelos Scout) if he meets the age or grade requirement.

 

The Boy Scouts is not age based except for a minimum and maximum range. NJCubScouter listed the joining (new) requirements correctly. The maximum age is 18 (for most).

[FScouter]

SemperParatus - "...most troops are not in position to accept crossovers until February (at B&G's) or Spring."

Why would a troop not be in position to accept a group of Webelos any time during the year?

[SemperParatus]

Fscouter,

 

Well, let me see.

The earliest time a Webelos den would crossover would be December (6 months after completing fourth grade) in most school jurisdictions.

Most Webelos and their parents want to compete one last time in their Pinewood Derby and attend their final Blue & Gold as the 'graduating webelos class'. Since most B&Gs are held in February, boy scout troops rarely see a crossover den before that time. Consequently, troops plan their years accordingly going to great lengths to develop a solid first year program for the anticipated crossovers. In December, that program is in full force with the previous crossover group and starting a new group can place additional stress on resources that many troops cannot easily accomodate(in our Troop we have four guides and two ASMs working with our first year program which includes 16 crossovers - adding another group could double the boy/manpower needed which is simply not possible). EagleinKy offers some further explanation on the other thread on this poster's initial question. In addition, most people would agree that you want to get a brand new boy scout camping as soon as possible. A December crossover would put the youngest scouts in a position of camping during very cold weather (that those of us not living in California must endure) which many new scouts are not prepared to do because of equipment limitations (brand new parents/scouts should not be expected to run out and buy a zero-degree bag their first month of boy scouts) or because of a brand new parent's anxiety about little Johnny sleeping outside in frigid temperatures. As a result, many troops plan 'new scout campouts' dedicated to the first year camper for the spring, when the weather is warmer, to coincide with the joining of the crossovers, and to put the troop focus on the new scouts to get them off to a great start.

 

We do have boys joining throughout the year and we weave them into our first year program, but the number is manageable. Taking on large crossover numbers at several different times of the year would be a challenge that would likely result in a inordinate amount of focus on new scouts, at the possible detriment to the overall program for scouts of all ages and abilities.

 

I have an open mind and would look to your vast experience in this matter to tell me what our troop (and every other one that I know) is doing wrong.

 

 

[FScouter]

Minor inconveniences. In our troop, we know several weeks or months in advance when a group of Webelos will bridge. We plan for that. It makes no matter what month. No zero-degree sleeping bag? Wrap a blanket around a summer bag. Spring may be an ideal time for Webelos to join a troop, but does that mean that the rest of the year is unacceptable? Personally, I would find it difficult to inform a den of Webelos that our troop was unable to accomodate them until the following Spring. I'd rather work out the inconvenience and make it happen.

[SemperParatus]

Fscouter,

 

So do you have Webelo dens crossing over to your troop in let's say July and September and November?

 

Either they have not yet earned the AOL or they have hung around in Webelos for a very long time.

 

 

[acco40]

When it is most usual (February - April time frame), when it is most convenient (a specific date) and when it is acceptable are all different. A troop should be able to accept newcomers at all times (unless there are size limitations).

[mich632]

What's the rush to get into boyscouts?

 

I'm sure it's physically possible to get a boy thru the arrow of light program in a very short period of time. But it's not just about advancement. Don't be in such a hurry. There is plenty of time for them to be boy scouts.

 

Why do you think BSA set minumum age or grade requirements.

 

Here is my experience. And it's only mine. Boys are not ready for the challenges boy scouts presents at 9. They need some maturity. But again, that's just my experience.

 

Bottom line, the one boy CAN NOT cross over until he is 10 and has arrow of light. And I think if you cross the other boys over without him. You will lose him.

 

Here is my recommendation. Keep the boys together over the summer, work with your den chief and troop. Plan some activities to will challenge the boys. HAVE SOME FUN.

 

There will be plenty of time once they all are 10.

[EagleInKY]

Semper referred to my post in Locust's other post of the same question. Here is what I said:

 

I agree with SemperParatus. Don't rush it. It's really a 1 1/2 year program, and you should have plenty of stuff to fill the time. For those that are really out in front, challenge them to earn all of the activity pins. We did that with a couple of boys last year that were way ahead.

 

I also echo the part about troops being ready. Most troops offer a "new scout program" or "First Class/First Year". The focus is to help the transition into the boy scout program, which is quite different from Cubs. At the end of that year, the boys are (should be) well trained boy scouts. Most Scoutmasters (including myself) are stressed right now, trying to get our current first year scouts ready to be "second year scouts", and thus ready to help train and teach your boys coming up. Moving them up early would create chaos in many troops, especially if another group is coming up in the Spring.

 

Just my $.02

[Locust Fork Leader]

I never was in a hurry to cross any of these boys. They haven't even earned their AOL. I have just been getting questions from others that since they are this far ahead what will I do once they finish the program. I had been told by the Cubmaster that if they meet all the requirements ALL will be able to cross over early. Most of these boys will be 10 yr this summer. I just wondered about the requirements and if I was truly meeting them. I'm thinking that they will cross over at the earliest next spring. But they have surprised me so at the rate they are completing things.

 

Tracy

[FScouter]

There is no way to cross over early. All the requirements must be met first. When a boy meets all the requirements, he may cross over if he wants to. Or, he can continue in the Webelos den until he ages out.

 

There is no correct time to cross over. It may be true that many cross over in February or March. That doesn't make that the correct time to do so. Any month is OK.

 

[OmegaEagle]

All,

If I'm reading this thread correctly, my son, who is a Webelos 1 in fourth grade, can earn AOL by summer 2005 as long as he's 10.5 years old in April (since he turned 10 in Oct. 2004)and has earned the required activity badges.

 

Is that right?

 

Frankly, as an Eagle, I'm eager for him to get going w/the boy scout program, which I think will be more challenging for him and help him w/his confidence, independence, goal-setting and organizational issues.