Need advice on parent involvement with other troop

[585sm]

We are a first year troop. One of my scouts has a brother in a nearby troop and the brother and his parents are still active there. One of the parents is having his/her son from our troop attend merit badge sessions with the other troop. He/she has asked another one of our scouts (who's parent is an ASM in our troop)to attend with his/her son.

My complaint is that all of our scouts should be offered the same opportunity. When my spouse or I hold merit badge sessions we don't exclude anyone.

I've suggested that we need to grow our own merit badge program with our own counselors, but he/she isn't hearing my message.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[dan]

Welcome to the campfire!

You are not going to like the feedback!

 

Merit Badges should not be part of a troop meeting. If you look at the troop meeting plan within the SM handbook you will see that there is no place scheduled for merit badges. Look at the Boy Scout Handbook and see what if says about merit badges and how a scout should earn the merit badges.

Stick around if you can weed out the bad stuff this is a great resource for you to lean on.

[Bob White]

It would seem that both of the units and their leaders misunderstand the pupose and process of merit badges. Merit badges are designed for individual selection and pursuit by the scout. The whole conversation about troop merit badge sessions goes against the spirit, policies and procedures of the merit badge advancement program.

 

Step 1) The scout (singular) chooses a merit badge

 

Step 2) The scout meets with the SM to obtain a blue card and to insure that he has the name and contact information for a registered and approved counselor.

 

Step 3) The Scout contacts the MB counselor and arranges an itial meeting.

 

Step 4) The Scout and a buddy meet with the counselor.

 

Step 5) the scout and his buddy continue to meet with the counselor for couseling and coaching until the completion of the badge. The counselor must test each scout INDIVIDUALLY. The counselor can only test on the requirements of the badge as described in the merit badge book, nothing more and nothing less.

 

Step 6) The MB counselor signs the blue card and retains his or her portion of the card for a minimum of two-years.

 

Step 7) the scout returns his portion of the card for a signature from a troop leader to act as his receipt for having reported the advancement. The scout retains his portion.

 

Step 8) The troop advancement committee retains the troop's portion of the card for the troop records, completes a council advancement report and notifies council of the advancement.

 

 

There are over 100 merit badges to allow each scout to create and pursue their own advancement trail that meets their own interests.

 

If the scout chooses to pursue a merit badge with any approved and registered counselor he may do so.

 

The troops job is to expose the scouts to the opportunities available through the merit badge program and encourage their INDIVIDUAL pursuit.

 

Your problem is not the parent or the scout.

 

Bob white

[Fuzzy Bear]

There is enough to do at a Troop meeting without the merit badge assembly line being part of it.

 

...and then we go to Summer Camp where the individual is in a group assembly line for a week.

 

...and then we go to the Merit Badge Midway where the individual is in a group assembly line for a day.

 

Mostly, people that are untrained begin to get a little confused by some of the programs and I can understand it. It looks hypocritical.

 

Busy people tend to cut to the core of the BSA program and direct their efforts to advancement, since it appears that is what Scouting is all about. Others, that have religious observances during the weekends, find it difficult to attend the Merit Badge assembly lines. Some may be trying to make up for the lose by using the troop meeting.

 

No matter what the resolution is between the supplemental advancement programs and the intent of the merit badge involvement, it is only one of eight parts of a great adventure.

 

We just don't want you to miss the other parts.

 

FB

 

[Fat Old Guy]

I'm with the other people here. This isn't Cub Scouts where everyone works on building a paper mache mask together. However, it sounds like neither troop is really following the program with their "merit badge sessions."

 

 

[acco40]

"The counselor can only test on the requirements of the badge as described in the merit badge book, nothing more and nothing less."

 

Actually, the MB counselor can test the Scout on anything under the sun and I often do ask the Scout many questions about topics over and above the MB requirements. However, one thing a MB may not do is make successful completion of the MB hindge on the responses to these questions. One should not ask these questions in a manner to show-off, ridicule or make the Scout uncomfortable in any way but sometimes the questions can spark an even deeper interest in the subject matter from the Scout.

 

[kasane]

Yes, you do need to have your boys get involved with the merit badge process. It is a hard thing for a boy to call up a stranger (to him) and ask that person to be his counsellor on a merit badge.

 

I would also like to point out that no one has their "own" merit badge counsellors. To be a merit badge counsellor, you have to register with the council. You get put on a list with all the other counsellors and your merit badge areas are indicated. This list should/must be available to ALL advancement chairs (at the very least). Each Troop should have one.

 

I realize that some merit badge counsellors will "only" work with specific troops, but I have a problem with that. If you sign up to be merit badge counsellor you should be available to any boy from any troop in your council/district. Geography plays a role in who is chosen to be a counsellor by the scouts, but the counsellors should not refuse a boy who requests their services even if he isn't from their troop.

 

When a boy indicates that he wants to pursue a particular merit badge, the Scoutmaster or Advancement Chair can then peruse the list, offer some guideance and provide the boy with the phone numbers of the person to contact. A blue card can then be issued.

 

Since the whole process can be pretty intimidating for everyone involved (especially the first time). I would suggest that a day (not a troop meeting) be set aside for your troop to do a merit badge together. You could even get the parents involved at the start.

 

Begin by picking a merit badge (something the entire troop would be interested in - maybe a required badge) that may or may not be completed in that day. Arrange for a day (sat am) and a counsellor to come and start the badge. My suggestion here is either the citizenship, physical fitness or personal management badges. The boys can't finish it that day as they have homework for the next few weeks or months, but it gives them a goal to work on. The counsellor can then set a future date with the boys as to when he could see them again if they have completed their work. He should also indicate that he is available at any time to discuss any questions on the topic, and any problems. Also If someone is done, they don't have to wait for the next gathering, but to call him and be reviewed on their schedule not the troop's.

 

While the merit badge counsellor is talking to the boys about the merit badge, the scoutmaster and advancement chair, give the parents a brief introduction to the process, that a list exists of merit badge counsellors and how the blue cards work. Also they can review the Youth protection guidelines required for this process.

 

The boys meanwhile are getting an introduction to their first merit badge. The merit badge counsellor can also talk to the boys about how they can contact other counsellors for areas they are interested in. The counsellor you have that day may also do other badges - he/she can then encourage the boys (now that he is not so intimidating) to contact him for other badges.

 

Having group gatherings for a merit badge can be fun (especially for the one-off topics), it is convenient and takes a lot of stress off everyone. However, as the boys mature and they have a specific schedule they are trying to meet (Eagle, Life) etc, they will exert more independence in this area. Expecting an 11 or 12 year old to do this is a bit of a stretch. They will grow with the process, but they should also get the pleasure of achieving some badges early on in their scouting too. If group badges are the way that works, then so be it.

 

 

 

[acco40]

One of the methods of Scouting is adult association. I am baffled at the number of Scouters and parents who want to cirucumvent the policy of having a Scout contact a MB counselor. It is NOT that difficult of a task. Heck, my neighbor's five year old has been taught proper phone etiquette (something lacking in most adults I'm afraid) and he has no problem calling adults. Ten to 17 year olds should not be intimidated about calling an adult who has given permission to have youth call him already for goodness sakes.

[Fat Old Guy]

" realize that some merit badge counsellors will "only" work with specific troops, but I have a problem with that. If you sign up to be merit badge counsellor you should be available to any boy from any troop in your council/district."

 

Some do it because they want to continue to have a life outside of Merit Badge Counselling. I know a fellow who was a Swimming and Lifesaving counselor but quit because no one had bothered to tell him that he could say no and he was seeing Scouts five or six days a week.

[Bob White]

Kasane,

While you present you plan very well you need to be aware that much of what you have written is in direct opposition to the methods, procedures, and policies of the BSA program. You might take time to review the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual, as well as the Scout Handbook and the Scoutmaster Handbook.

 

Just as a few areas you will want to review; Adults determining what merit badges a scout or scouts earn, Adults determining trop program, Scouts going to the Advancement chair when beginning merit badges, counselors being mandated as to who they must counsel, the use of merit badges in the troop meeting program.

 

[EagleInKY]

585 - You're getting a lot of good advice, and I hope you learn from it. However, you're also getting what is "by the book", and there is some difference out hear in middle-America. Here are a few random thoughts:

While I agree that Troop Meetings should not be Merit Badge factories (let me repeat that - Troop Meetings should not be Merit Badge factories!), I believe there is some room for doing some MB work in them. We do it about twice a year. We don't do the entire work in the troop meeting.These are typically MBs that require a lot of work on their own - such as Personal Fitness or Family Living. We try to keep the groups relatively small - 5-6 boys max - to avoid it being like a classroom. Just don't let it overshadow the overall troop program.

While many of the folks on this forum have districts that have a well-organized MB counselor program, others of us do not. Our district does not have any formal MB Counselor list. You can get a list of counselors from the Council office, but they are from all over the place. Most troops recruit their own MB counselors. If they are not registered adult leaders, they go through the paperwork with the Council to get them registered as a counselor. I've confirmed this with my District Advancement Chair and he agreed that this is the practice everyone is following at this time.

Many MB Counselors that I have run across are only interested in serving one troop, or a couple of troops in an area. This is probably a by-product of not having a formal district program. Since most counselors are recruited by the troop (or the boys themselves), they are interested in serving them only.

Good luck with your new troop.

[kasane]

"While you present you plan very well you need to be aware that much of what you have written is in direct opposition to the methods, procedures, and policies of the BSA program. You might take time to review the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual, as well as the Scout Handbook and the Scoutmaster Handbook. "

 

Actually I guess as a unit commissioner of 5 years standing, a Troop Advancement chair of over three years, and a member of the District Training committee and District Committee, Friends of Scouting Family Chair, wife of scoutmaster, etc, I might be behind on my reading and lack a little understanding my understanding of the process, but for lack of space and time I did not go into the PLC process and the fact that the boys should be leading the troop.

 

I believe the questioner indicated that their troop is approximately 1 year old. I counselled a lot of troops of many years standing who still hadn't got the "boy led process".

 

What I was proposing (and I'm sorry if this wasn't clear), was to kick off the beginning of the merit badge process and grow the program within this person's troop. Yes, the boy's can pick the merit badge (sorry for not indicating as such).

 

I have found that in a new troop (or new boys and parents) an understanding of the merit badge process is not there. I was hoping to get across the usefullness of walking the boys through the process once (including parents) so that they would know what and how to do this. This would help them grow their own program. The boys (once a PLC was established and working) could then begin determining the process.

 

"Just as a few areas you will want to review;

 

"Adults determining what merit badges a scout or scouts earn", -I never said that. A merit badge was picked that could be dealt with in a day (if you have this problem with a troop doing this - what about the Councils in their merit badge days or at camps) - I made a suggestion of the type or kind of badge that could be addressed. The adults (SM, CC, AC, etc) coordinating this would consult with the boys. this is not an ongoing process - it was a kickoff to develop the program. I suggested it as a way to start, but if you read the rest, you would see that I talked about the boys growiing and becoming more independent in this process.

 

 

"Adults determining trop program" - where did I say that. I suggested a merit badge meeting outside of a troop meeting. If the troop is just a year old, I can guarantee that the PLC is not going yet either. Maybe the merit badge meeting should be a PLC or junior leader training course.

 

"Scouts going to the Advancement chair when beginning merit badges" - The Scoutmaster issues the Blue Card, but scouts can talk to anyone about beginning a merit badge - maybe they are getting additional information on what is in the badge requirements, who did it before in the troop, tossing the idea around, where they stand in required merit badges, etc., The Advancement Chair can send them right back to the Scoutmaster without saying a word as well. The Advancement Chair can also consult with the Scoutmaster in the matter as well because they keep all the records for the troop and are able to say what is needed or missing in the boy's merit badges.

 

"counselors being mandated as to who they must counsel" How is this process any different than at Jamboree, merit badge midways, or summer camps when the District or Council signs up 100's of scouts to do merit badges at one fell swoop. Based on this, the Districts and Councils had better read their own manuals and policies.

 

"The use of merit badges in a Troop Meeting Program" Merit badges should be worked on outside of a Troop meeting - there is too much going on at a troop meeting to concentrate on this matter. That is why I suggested a special meeting or a special day to work on these.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

kasane,

While your involvement is appreciated and important, none of the credentials you list include training in the advancement program, except for being on the training team. If you have indeed attended training or have been on the training team you should know that what you propose does not jive with the advancement methods in the Scoutmaster training course or any content of any other Scout leader training.

 

I think if you would take a few moments to read the Advancement Committee policies and procedures manual you would understand what I mean.

 

Being a scoutmaster's spouse is not being a scoutmaster or having the training that a Scoutmaster should have. A new troop less than a year old should be concentrating on attaining First Class skills, they have lots of time, and lots to do, before they even need to introduce merit badges.

 

If you read the brochure for Merit Badge Counseling Orientation, you will see that the conversation you suggest having with "anyone" is supposed to happen with the SM. There are other discoveries in store for you regarding the responses you posted.

 

And the difference between "telling" a counselor that he "has to" counsel anyone, and a counselor who volunteered to work at the jamboree midway and help anyone, is the word "volunteered".

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"If you read the brochure for Merit Badge Counseling Orientation, you will see that the conversation you suggest having with "anyone" is supposed to happen with the SM."

 

Classic Bob White. I'm not the SM or even the ASM but I'm known as a wellspring of Scouting information in my Troop. It isn't unusual for Scouts to come to me and say something like, "I work on my dirt bike all the time, would that qualify for Auto Mechanics?" I didn't realize that I should send him to the SM who would send him right back to me. I'll start following procedures.

 

 

[kasane]

"While your involvement is appreciated and important, none of the credentials you list include training in the advancement program, except for being on the training team"

 

DID YOU READ THE REST OF MY POST?

 

THREE years as troop advancement chairperson - I didn't sit on my hands through those three years. I had an active troop committee, I attended advancement training within my District, in my Council and at a university of scouting. I trained people in troop advancement, I chaired over 20 boards of review including training new members of the board. I reported to Council, I attended my committee meetings, made my reports and produced copious amounts of paper for my troop. No training in the advancement program - pshah. I had tons of training.

 

We went by the book(s). We went by all the manuals, training guides, training sessions. We also had to use other skills and methods to motivate people, to inform them and to guide them in their scouting advancement

 

What I suggested to the first poster was a method of getting parents and new scouts involved in the merit badge program within their own troop. I didn't tell them to use it all the time - it was a method to get kids and parents involved in discussing and learning about the process.