Serve Actively in a Position of Responsibility?

[Fat Old Guy]

Are there any guidelines for how active a Scout needs to be in a position of responsibility for it to count for advancement?

 

We have a Scout coming up for Star and his POR was Patrol Leader. The problem that I see is that he became PL in the Spring, served as PL for one campout and then Summer came and no one did anything other than Summer camp.

 

I don't see much leading here.

[AnneinMpls]

How many months did he actively serve? A month in the spring or two or 3? Was the troop meeting regularly through the summer? Then I'd count it, including summer camp. Otherwise, if the troop didn't meet during the summer, count his time in the spring, add in however long summer camp was (I'd probably round it up to a month), and have him finish off the rest of the 6 months now this fall.

Anne in Mpls

[evmori]

Fat Old Guy,

I am interested in the responses to this question. I'm going to wait to chime in till I read what others post.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SM406]

Oh-Oh, here we go again. This is similar to what is meant by active. I am curious also if there are any BSA guidelines that spell out how a scout is to serve as a leader (I doubt it). The requirement is just time based. This is going to be fun.

 

SM406

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually, I always thought the six months was to be consecutive, although the requirement only states for six months, never thought of counting months separatley, that is an interesting thought.

 

Now, the requirement does say "serve actively". now, as we have/will see thats means different things to different people. I think the key is, does the scout know what is expected of him. If the scout performed as Parol Leader when it was required, but wasnt required but once, is that the scouts problem? Should it be the scouts problem? Now, if the Scout only attended one outing, and blew off all other activites for the sake of sports or other activities then there is a problem. If the Patrol Leader never attended an outing, but the patrol was always perpared, the menus planned, food bought, duty roster set, etc. and the patrol ran great because the patrol leader kept things organized, then it would be an interesting debate, was he active?

 

I think it goes back to the expectations of the scoutmaster and whether or not those expectations were met, and whether or not the scout was counseled when he did not meet expectations.

 

Oh, and just for the sake of experiment, lets debate the issue, argue points of view, and see if we can leave personal attacks, vendettas and past history out of this one thread (Today one thread, tommorow the forum)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[saltheart]

Yes, there will probably be contentious divisions on this one.

 

In training, the words that are spoken are that Scouting should be 12 months a year. But in the very next sentence, we have always admitted to the realities. And those realities for most are that, other than summer camp or a monthly trip, the Scouting year runs concurrently with the school year. For those troops that maintain a 12 month trip schedule, opportunites to show and practice leadership area available for the whole year as long as the Scout is willing to participate on the level offered. For those troop that can't keep the program going for the summer vacation months due to a variety of reasons, those opportunities will not exist, and leadership can hardly be practiced, and the Scouts should not expect time in position for those months. It's important to make sure that the Scouts understand this thoroughly so as to avoid the very issue you describe.

 

As the maintenance of the program for whatever term it runs during the year is, as we see it, the responsibility of the adult corps, then it is the adult corps that must make the decision to run 9, or 10, or 12 months, and be available for meetings and trips and such. Without that, if a troop does not regularly promote, follow, and work with patrol camping outside of troop camping, then there really aren't any leadership possibilities to be had during the off-months.

[Fat Old Guy]

There was only one troop outing for him to go on as PL so that would have been May, summer camp for one week in June, then nothing in July or August although it was suggested to him that he try to get some Patrol activities going, he did nothing but the rest of the troop does nothing as well.

[KoreaScouter]

I agree 100% with OGE. "Serve actively" is a subjective standard. There should be a clear understanding between the Scouts and the Scoutmaster, before Troop elections, what constitutes "serve actively". The worst thing is to say nothing, let an underperforming green bar plod along assuming he's doing okay, then lay a bombshell on him at the end of his tenure.

 

Even in Troops that take part of the summer off, there should still be summer recruiting, annual program planning conference activities, and patrol documentation and advancement that can be done outside of troop meetings.

 

Importantly, I'd recommend against holding this lad to a different standard than the other green bars because he may be lazy or disliked. If he did nothing, and the others didn't either, they should all be treated the same. If the troop goes dormant during the summer, you could consider "stopping the clock" during that period, and picking up again in September or whenever you start up for the year.

 

KS

[OldGreyEagle]

The troop of my choice uses Troopmaster and while I dont use it, I am told it only counts 6 month continous blocks of POR, can anybody tell me if thats right? I wonder what they based it on. I have to say, "stopping the clock" on a POR because the troop is dormant is a new concept to me. On the back of the Eagle Application it has a space for the POR the scout fulfilled while a life scout, it has room for two date ranges, I dont know what would happen if you had six date ranges, anybody have experience with this?

[evmori]

OGE,

That's correct about Troopmaster. You can "cheat" the software by placing an end date on the POR and adding the same POR again with a new start date.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I knew a guy who had a car that sat in his garage. He never started it. He never took out and about or sterred in in a ny specifc direction. 6 months later the car had never moved and the guy sold it. What good is a car that doesn't take you anywhere?

 

I knew s scoutmaster with a junior leader. The scoutmaster never trained the boy, never got him started. He never spent time with him showing him how to lead, and he never even steered him in the right diection. 6-months later the boy was right where he began. The SM gave up on him, what good is a leader who doesn't lead.

 

The car needs a better driver, the boy needs.....?

 

You cannot say that the scout did not fullfill the requirements if he was not trained and supported. The best judge of active leadership is the scout. At the on set of the leadership experience the scout is to have an Introduction to Leadership Conference with an adult. During that conference the scout and adult agree on job responsibilities and performance expectations. A good adult leader does not wait until the scout's tenure is up to judge him, but coaches the scout to evaluate himself in the course of his tenure to help him see his own strengths and growth.

 

There was questionable leadership going on. The question is,...on whose part?

 

Bob White

 

[evmori]

OK. Let's suppose the Scout in the leadership position received all the correct BSA training and guidance and still did nothing. Did he "actively serve"?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

If he was not removed from the POR. I say yes.

[evmori]

dan,

Please explain.

 

Ed

[OldGreyEagle]

I of course want to answer, even though I am not Dan, do not play Dan on TV nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

Most of the foum members who posted in the So What do You Do thread appear to be employed by someone else. Most of us who have a "Boss" are familiar with an annual tradition known as the "Anuual Performace Review" which distilled to its core is how much of a raise you are going to get and then either get chewed on or praised by the "Boss".

 

Now, the worst reviews I have heard about is when the Boss explodes and starts critizizes the employees performance starting 11 months ago or so when the employee started using the wrong report template or something like that, of course employee was never told it was wrong, the "Boss" just kept a tally of how many times the wrong report format was turned in. It would have been a simple matter to tell the employee which format to use and the employee would have used the correct template, but no one told him for 11 months. Now on his evaluation it says, Does not follow Company procedure

 

I find stories of the above incredible, but they happen. I am blessed with a very nice Boss, not soft, nice. She lets you know when you could have done a better job rather quickly, as a result, I know what's going to be discussed on my evaluation every year, because my performance is constantly communicated to me.

 

Once a Scout is in a POR, and has been trained, he should receive periodic assessments of the job he is doing. Not after every meeting, or outing, but at least monthly. He should know and have on paper his job description. He should be able to speak to how he fulfills each point on it each month. At the three month point, the scouts and adult leader, either SM or designee should evaluate the scout's performace, what is going well, what needs to be improved. At that time a descision is made, does the scout stay in the POR or is he removed? Perhaps he is on the edge so areas to work on and goals to accomplish are set. If those goals arent met then the scout is releived of his positon before the end of the 6 month term.

 

I cant see how a scout with all required BSA support could possibly serve a six month term of a POR and then the Scoutmaster tell the scout he doesnt get credit for the POR because of poor performance. If the Scoutmaster truly gives the support that the BSA guidelines require, the scout will either not be in position for 6 months or he will have actively served in it, because the adult support coached, directed, delegated or flat out directed him to do it.

 

One of the local troops have a policy that if a scout misses two PLC meetings during his 6 month term, he loeses his position, subject to reasons of course, but band Practice, sports, etc isnt counted as the PLC meeting is as important as an activity as any other.

The scouts know it and follow it.

 

Now, when I say scoutmaster, I mean either the scoutmaster or designee, I dont expect the SM to do it all.

 

Just because a scouts term is 6 months doesnt mean you have to wait 6 months to talk to him about his performance